• NC Software is proud to announce the release of APDL - Airline Pilot Logbook version 10.0. Click here to view APDL on the Apple App store and install now.

Non-Cass JS denied cabin seat on Continental!

Captain Overs

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Posts
875
Total Time
15,000
I think everyone should relax about this situation before getting too bent. I've commuted out of DCA to Newark before on CAL. I'm not saying this didn't happen as described, but we are talking about something that the poster wasn't even there to witness. This is a "friend of a friend" story. I'd like to hear what the gate agent has to say.
 

scouts out!

Active member
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Posts
38
Total Time
5000
Captain overs

Good luck talking to the gate agent. So you talk to the agent then you will come here and say the gate agent said blah blah blah blah. I have hade many good experiences while jumpseating and then I have had some I would rather have not taken. People have had some bad JS days and most of the times it could be easily corrected if the Captain of the flight was involved but most of the times that does not happen. This is an actual problem so stop trying to dress it up like some kind of misunderstanding. The gate agent could have spoken with the captain to obtain clarification but refused to. I have had our gate agents ask me to clarify the JS issue and the problem was resolved. Just because your buddy buddy with the gate agent does not mean that this was the Jump Seaters mistake.
 

Captain Overs

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Posts
875
Total Time
15,000
Don't get your panties all bunched up. I'm not saying that it was a misunderstanding. I'm simply stating that you're hearing a story from a guy who wasn't even there. I'm sure there is more to the story and it wasn't a misunderstanding.
 

mckpickle

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2002
Posts
1,242
Total Time
10,000
No we NEVER have gate agents that don't want to help out pilots, check with the captain, decide their own rules, are upset pilots fly free, etc etc etc.....NO NOT HERE.

Come on 90% of jumpseat problems are due to the gate agents.
 

coolyokeluke

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Posts
313
Total Time
2600+
mckpickle said:
No we NEVER have gate agents that don't want to help out pilots, check with the captain, decide their own rules, are upset pilots fly free, etc etc etc.....NO NOT HERE.

Come on 90% of jumpseat problems are due to the gate agents.

I agree 100%. Every jumpseat problem situation that I've encountered was COMPLETELY the gate agent's fault, not the crew. In every instance crews have bent over backwards to help me get to work/home. Two weeks ago a crowded airplane left with an empty seat in the back because the gate agent wanted it shut so there would be no delay issue, consequently I was left at the gate. There are some good gate agents, but I think many consider jumpseaters just an additional burden.
 

scouts out!

Active member
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
Posts
38
Total Time
5000
Captain Overs

Unfortunately I heard it from the person that was affected by this flawed system. It needs to be addressed by CAL and corrected to prevent this from happening again and hopefully the CAL pilots on this board will make some calls to have this issue addressed.
 

ERfly

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Posts
767
Total Time
8100
mckpickle said:
No we NEVER have gate agents that don't want to help out pilots, check with the captain, decide their own rules, are upset pilots fly free, etc etc etc.....NO NOT HERE.

Come on 90% of jumpseat problems are due to the gate agents.

I agree with mckpickle, agents don't know crap. I had an American agent (Eagle station) tell me that she couldn't let me on the MD-80 with 5 open first class seats, because she "Couldn't put me in first class." Luckily, I had talked with the Captain while he was printing his paperwork. I made it on, no thanks to Ms. Genius.
 

NEDude

yada yada yada
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Posts
1,611
Total Time
6000+
I had a CAL gate agent tell me I (my company-CAL Connection) wasn't authorized to jumpseat. Funny thing is on her desk at the gate, underneath some plexiglass, there was the jumpseat list with my companies name on it. I pointed it out to her and she said that she was told we couldn't, so we can't. I even showed her how to pull it up on her computer. Even with it in front of her on the computer, she still said we couldn't. Thankfully her supervisor came over and asked the problem. She asked who I was with, I told her, and she told the agent "sure he can jumpseat, the list is right here" - pointing to the list under the plexiglass. Thankfully I got on.

As much as I like CAL, it seems there are a lot of gate agents who are clueless as to their own policies.

Another example - Checking in at TPA for a positive space deadhead to our companies HQ in Plattsburgh, NY the ticket agent told me "Continental doesn't have any service to Plattsburgh" and promptly cancelled my listing and told me to move along (really!). I refused, called our crew scheduling and demanded to speak to a supervisor. Again, the supervisor straightened things out. I have a few other fun examples as I am sure we all do. But I'd think it would be a requirement for the job for the gate agents to actually know a little bit about the companyy they are working for (ie destinations).
 

Weasil

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2003
Posts
752
Total Time
7000
Captain Overs said:
Don't get your panties all bunched up. I'm not saying that it was a misunderstanding. I'm simply stating that you're hearing a story from a guy who wasn't even there. I'm sure there is more to the story and it wasn't a misunderstanding.

You are quite mistaken. The original post is simply a cut and paste of the letter written to our J/S coordinator by the pilot in question. It is not a story being repeated by someone who wasn't there.

This is a problem that I would like to see addressed and the the pilot who wrote the letter thanked me for forwarding his letter to flightinfo.com

I had a gate agent tell me once I couldn't travel on my own company because I wasn't in uniform. I work for the training department and was travelling on company business - not flying the line - and so was not supposed to be wearing a monkey suit. And this was in Dayton OH - our company headquarters and home of our training center.
 

PapaGiorgio

Active member
Joined
Mar 19, 2005
Posts
44
Total Time
==
Had to deal with this tired old windbag USAir agent in PIT that actually said the SHE OWNED the airplane while it was at the gate. Can you beleive that?...I've never seen a gate agents name on a flight release.
 

NEDude

yada yada yada
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Posts
1,611
Total Time
6000+
When I was an FO, I had a captain call the CP about a gate agent and he said that while the airplane is on the gate, it belongs to the gate agent. The captain has the power to keep someone off, but he can't override the gate agent when the GA says someone doesn't get on. It becomes the captains airplane when the door is closed. That's what my CP told my captain.

Of course the captain could always say "I have a small maintenence issue" and leave the gate agent to deal with a bunch of pissed off passengers.
 

igneousy2

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Posts
1,262
Total Time
100+
I was in BOS in the JS (pre 9/11) and at that particular America West Gate the passengers parade in front of the airplane in front of some glass on the way to the jet bridge. While I was on I had told the captain that the cabin was going to be completely full (what I was told) as their were a ton non-revs trying to get a seat in the back. Right on cue, a family of non-revs go running by the glass only to be turned back by the agent on the top of the jet bridge. The two parents and two kids turned around with a dejected look on their face. When the same gate agent got to the cockpit the passenger count she gave the captain indicated their were 10+ seats left in the back. When the captain questioned this she stated "I am not going to take the delay to put non-revs on." Without missing a beat, the captain grabbed the cargo manifest and told the agent "I was just down on the ramp and I know their was way more cargo than this...I want this double checked before we leave." Without herself missing a beat the gate agent than stated "we'll put the non-revs on."

I even had an FAA inspector try to tell me that the Captain doesn't have any authority until the brake is released. I then asked him to tell me who's responsibility it was to release the brake then? He seemed stumped.

later
 

SoBeFlyer

Member User
Joined
Apr 21, 2004
Posts
55
Total Time
Some
igneousy2 said:
I even had an FAA inspector try to tell me that the Captain doesn't have any authority until the brake is released. I then asked him to tell me who's responsibility it was to release the brake then? He seemed stumped.

That's friggin awesome. People of presumed position power never seem to pass up an opportunity to keep their mouths shut, do they? I guess it's hard to keep it shut when it's commonly filled with a foot!!
 

SlapShot

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Posts
326
Total Time
3400
PapaGiorgio said:
Had to deal with this tired old windbag USAir agent in PIT that actually said the SHE OWNED the airplane while it was at the gate. Can you beleive that?...I've never seen a gate agents name on a flight release.

That same gate agent has told me the exact same thing.

I commute out of EWR on Express and I have problems with those gate agents too. The first question they ask me is "what is your airline's code?" When I tell them we are not in the CASS system they ask for the code anyway. When I tell them it is S5 they say it is some airline in Africa. Since our code is not in their system, we not authorized to jumpseat. I have had this problem at least 5 times in the last few months. Then I explain that the codes they are looking up is for CAL and not Express. (PapaGiogio and Skull1 already mentioned the difficulties with the CAL list.) I have only been completely denied twice. The other times the gate agent goes and asks the Captain who solves the problem.

I do not understand why it has to be so difficult.
 

erj-145mech

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Posts
1,071
Total Time
1350
SlapShot said:
I do not understand why it has to be so difficult.

Part of the problem is that the gate agents/ground crew are mainline Continental, handling an ExpressJet flight. Its bad enough that we expect the customer service agents to know how to do their job, but they have to know another carriers (ExpressJet) policies.

ExpressJet uses mainline ground services at hubs and stations where mainline also serves.
 

atpcliff

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
4,260
Total Time
6000
Hi!

What is the CAL policy in this situation:

The JS pilot IS in CASS, but the JS pilot's airline is NOT on the CAL list.

Can they JS because they're in CASS, or do they also have to be on the JS list?

Thanx!

CLiff
YIP
 

Weasil

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2003
Posts
752
Total Time
7000
Letter from our J/S Coordinator

Our (PSA) j/s coordinator posted the following response today on our company message board.
_______________________________________________________

The above problem has been submitted to the CAL j/s committee and we are awaiting a response.

A brief history up to this point... When Continental went CASS their agents started trying to verify all offline jumpseaters for the cockpit even though many (non-CASS) jumpseaters ride only in the cabin. CASS verification is only required by TSA for an offline pilot to ride in the cockpit but at CAL it's being done all of the time.

Many PSA pilots were denied because JS is not our ICAO or IATA two-letter airline code. WE DO NOT HAVE ONE (JS is only an internal US Airways designation).

Sometimes PSA pilots were approved: before US Airways went online with CASS, the US code would work at a Continental gate with the message something like "non CASS carrier, cabin seat approved".

Now that US Airways is online with CASS, if the US code is used together with a PSA ID number, a PSA pilot will probably be denied.

PSA has a reciprocal jumpseat agreement with Continental. We are awating a remedy on how they will acommodate us in the cabin until CASS is brought online here.

It's a good idea to have a backup plan (as always) when planning to jumpseat on Continental. Try your best to speak with the captain if a problem arises!
 
Top