Non-Cass JS denied cabin seat on Continental!

[Weasil]

Here's a copy of a letter .. just sent to our jumpseat coordinator.....


Capt. XXXXX,

I just wanted to shoot you a quick note to alert you to a problem which may affect other PSA pilots in the future. It already ruined my Thanksgiving by keeping me from getting home for my extended family's Thanksgiving dinner. This was particularly frustrating as it would have been my first chance to make it to the annual get-together in 9 years.

I had finished a trip was attempting to J/S from DCA to EWR on Continental Airlines flight 1108 with a scheduled departure time of 12:59 PM. I arrived at the gate 40 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. As my family lives in northern New Jersey I tend to J/S on CAL quite a lot out of DCA and have never had a problem other than full or weight restricted flights. When I handed my ID, pilot certificate and medical to the agent he advised me that Continental had just gone to a new listing system based on CASS. I told him that PSA was not yet CASS approved but that there should be an alternate means of provided access to a cabin seat for non CASS airlines listed on CAL's reciprocal jumpseat list. ( I have seen the memo describing how US Airways mainline does this.) He told me that there was no way around the CASS template and that I had been returned as "DENIED" for the obvious reason that PSA is not CASS approved. Another agent confirmed this to me. I asked to speak to the captain but was told that there is nothing he could do and that there was no way for me to be allowed to go onto the aircraft to talk with him. I then politely asked to speak to a supervisor. The supervisor advised me that there was absolutely no way a non CASS pilot could now jumpseat on CAL even with plenty of empty cabin seats because the ONLY way to put a jumpseater in the system was through CASS.

While I realize that we will eventually get CASS, until then we have effectively been shut out of jumpseating on Continental. As we have a reciprocal Jumpseat agreement in place with the CAL pilots, I feel that this is an unfair and inappropriate action and needs to be brought to the attention of the Continental Jumpseat Coordinator. For what it is worth, since Continental Express is not a CASS approved airline, jumpseating on an express flight would continue as normal.

I would appreciate hearing from you how the Continental jumpseat coordinator responds to this situation. Also, do we have any sort of tentative date for CASS implementation at PSA? Not that promises mean anything here of course.

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving,


Captain XXXXX
_________________________________________________
I cut and paste this on here as I felt it necessary to get this information in front of any Continental Pilots who might visit these pages. I'm hoping that this is just a mistake on the part of the DCA gate agents and needs to be corrected. As a commuter myself I am disturbed by this development.

 

[(o) (o)]

Sorry to hear that dude, better luck next year.

 

[igneousy2]

I just recently read a note from the Continental jumpseat coordinator . To paraphrase...it stated that the gate agents now have one form to fill in in the computer. They simply put your airline code into the form. This one form checks CASS and the recipricol JS list. The computer then spits out an approval and a note if you can sit in the 1W or if you must sit in the back.

I hope that this was just one moron gate agent as I have to use CAL in a couple of weeks. Let us know what's up.

Gobble Gobble

 

[macdu]

The agents are severely missinformed as usual. I'm not a CAL pilot, but I am most certain that the system has not changed. You should get a seat in back as usual for a non-cass pilot assuming seats available in the back. If over night, non-cass pilots were denied boarding there would be a whole lot of pilotless airplanes. I am very sorry you missed out on a holiday because of there stupidity.

 

[imadumbpilot]

Weasil,

I want to appologize on behalf of the Continental pilots. This is deeply troubling to me. The gate agents were 100% wrong in this case. They most certainly should have allowed you to jumpseat in the cabin.

This is from our October jumpseat update.

Non-CASS-participating pilots will only be given a​

boarding pass, exactly like that of
a "regular" passenger, with an actual seat assignment. They will not be given an
ACM slip, or a computer printout of any kind. Even though they have seat
assignments, they’re still always an ACM… your additional crewmember you can
call in at any time for assistance.
​

Since I commute out of DCA this is even more troubling. I will be sure to have a converstation about this with the station people next time I commute up. Obviously we are having implementation problems with our new policy. I am very sorry this happened to you.
​

 

[capt. megadeth]

What's also disturbing is the fact that they didn't let you talk to the capt. What a bunch of BS.......and on a holiday weekend nonetheless.

 

[scoreboard]

Here's a copy of a letter .. just sent to our jumpseat coordinator.....


Capt. XXXXX,

I just wanted to shoot you a quick note to alert you to a problem which may affect other PSA pilots in the future. It already ruined my Thanksgiving by keeping me from getting home for my extended family's Thanksgiving dinner. This was particularly frustrating as it would have been my first chance to make it to the annual get-together in 9 years.

I had finished a trip was attempting to J/S from DCA to EWR on Continental Airlines flight 1108 with a scheduled departure time of 12:59 PM. I arrived at the gate 40 minutes prior to scheduled departure time. As my family lives in northern New Jersey I tend to J/S on CAL quite a lot out of DCA and have never had a problem other than full or weight restricted flights. When I handed my ID, pilot certificate and medical to the agent he advised me that Continental had just gone to a new listing system based on CASS. I told him that PSA was not yet CASS approved but that there should be an alternate means of provided access to a cabin seat for non CASS airlines listed on CAL's reciprocal jumpseat list. ( I have seen the memo describing how US Airways mainline does this.) He told me that there was no way around the CASS template and that I had been returned as "DENIED" for the obvious reason that PSA is not CASS approved. Another agent confirmed this to me. I asked to speak to the captain but was told that there is nothing he could do and that there was no way for me to be allowed to go onto the aircraft to talk with him. I then politely asked to speak to a supervisor. The supervisor advised me that there was absolutely no way a non CASS pilot could now jumpseat on CAL even with plenty of empty cabin seats because the ONLY way to put a jumpseater in the system was through CASS.

While I realize that we will eventually get CASS, until then we have effectively been shut out of jumpseating on Continental. As we have a reciprocal Jumpseat agreement in place with the CAL pilots, I feel that this is an unfair and inappropriate action and needs to be brought to the attention of the Continental Jumpseat Coordinator. For what it is worth, since Continental Express is not a CASS approved airline, jumpseating on an express flight would continue as normal.

I would appreciate hearing from you how the Continental jumpseat coordinator responds to this situation. Also, do we have any sort of tentative date for CASS implementation at PSA? Not that promises mean anything here of course.

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving,


Captain XXXXX
_________________________________________________
I cut and paste this on here as I felt it necessary to get this information in front of any Continental Pilots who might visit these pages. I'm hoping that this is just a mistake on the part of the DCA gate agents and needs to be corrected. As a commuter myself I am disturbed by this development.

So did you then pay for a seat to get home??

From what know of CASS, if your not on it, you can't get a JS.

 

[Weasil]

I apologise for not making it clear. This did not happen to me. This happened to one of our captains and this is the letter he wrote to our Jumpseat Co-ordinator. As a fellow commuter I am trying to get some clarification from Continental Guys and perhaps to spread the word a bit that there is confusion with the new system.

US Airways has the CASS system now, we at PSA (being a wholly owned express carrier) are still awaiting the AOK from our POI at the FAA (hehe.. couldn't resist).

To answer the last post... non-cass jumpseating pilots can be given a seat in the cabin - just not in the actual cockpit jumpseat.

The idea of CASS was to enlarge the avenues for getting to/from work for us commuters, not reduce them.

 

[imadumbpilot]

So did you then pay for a seat to get home??

From what know of CASS, if your not on it, you can't get a JS.

What CASS does is give you access to the cockpit, you are still allowed to "jumpseat" in an empty seat in the back if you have a reciprocal agreement with Contininetal. That list is supposed to be maintained in the company computer system which is accessable to the gate agents.

From what I understand there are three responses that the gate can get when they input the information 1. approved for cockpit js 2. approved cabin only 3. denied.

Perhaps they input the information incorrectly, or maybe there is a problem with the list in the computer not showing PSA.

 

[scarlet]

They also denied me j/s out of houston and I was there 1 hour early and the gate agent said she would call a supervisor, and never did!! The flight lefted me behind with over 20 seats open. ANd YES you can talk to the captain if they will let you--THAT is just a very unprofessioanl gate agent...write CAL and tell them, that their agents do not know company policy...

I got on the flight 3 hours later, and this agent knew what she was doing!! They have to put in the RIGHT--LISTEN the RIGHT AIRLINE....ASA--Atlantic Southeast Airlines...NOt DELTA PSA---NOT USair..it will deny you.

the first agent was putting in Delta and it knows that my employee number is not Delta....So make sure they are putting in who you really work for,,,not the major that you connect with....

Talked to Captain in IAH and he was upsat that the agent would not even discuss it with the captain of that flight.....

 

[imadumbpilot]

I got on the flight 3 hours later, and this agent knew what she was doing!! They have to put in the RIGHT--LISTEN the RIGHT AIRLINE....ASA--Atlantic Southeast Airlines...NOt DELTA PSA---NOT USair..it will deny you.

the first agent was putting in Delta and it knows that my employee number is not Delta....So make sure they are putting in who you really work for,,,not the major that you connect with....

Talked to Captain in IAH and he was upsat that the agent would not even discuss it with the captain of that flight.....

Again, I am very sorry this happened to you. I hope you know that this is NOT the doing of the pilots. We want very much to have you riding on our airplanes. That is why we included the unlimited JS in our concessionary agreement. I think you hit the nail on the head with what happend in DC to this PSA pilot. The agents probably put in the wrong airline. We obviously have bugs to be worked out with our new system.

I don't understand why they have to reinvent the wheel on this, The old forms would have worked just fine, and left alot more authority with the Captain. Sometimes I wonder if technology is really helping?

 

[PapaGiorgio]

I have had this problem for the past couple of years with CAL. My airline has yet to enroll in CAS, however CoEX has an open JS policy and you do not need to be in CASS, just your id should do it. I had on CAL guy take me out of BOS because I caught him before I went to the gate agent a while back. On the other hand I have been denied by the crew as well, even after being let down the jetway to speak with him. This policy particularly sucks because I commute out of IAH. Thankfully CoEx flys damm near everywhere except for Europe out of IAH so it has'nt hurt to much.

 

[PapaGiorgio]

Sorry....just to eleborate on the above statment....I'm not sure how old the cass system is but prior to that we tried several times to establish some kind of an agrement with there JS coordinator (a women at the time) and there response was they saw no benifit as to granting us js access, even though we flew through CLE quite a bit at the time. I took several CAL people back in those days and would mention it to them...They said they would look into it. Oh well, personally I would have a tough time leaving someone behind who was trying to go home and work or something. Fortuantly our company just leaves it up to the PIC who gets on and who does'nt. I feel that's how it should be everywhere...let the guys and gals driving worry about it, not the agents.

 

[Huggyu2]

With new procedures and policies, it is up to the company to ensure that the gate agents are actually trained and given this new info. Don't be too quick to bash the gate agents, unless you know the info was disseminated through their ranks.

 

[Weasil]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. The gate agents wouldn't allow him to speak to the Captain. There is no excuse for this!

 

[Skull1]

Papagiorgio maybe working at the same airline as I do.

Shuttle America used to be on the CAL list prior to 9/11 but after that, we were removed. The only way we could be on the list again is if we were on the CASS system. This came from the CAL administrator, and not the J/s coordinator. Up to now, CAL management is reluctant to put us on the system.

Since, we are flying in and out of HOU, Texas, and CLE, is there CAL pilots here who can pass this along to the folks who maybe able to resolve this issue.

We have let a lot of CAL pilots ride on us eventhough they are not on our list. We want to prevent any denied J/S on both ends. Currently we fly the E170's for the United Express and Delta Connection.

​

 

[erj-145mech]

I have had this problem for the past couple of years with CAL. My airline has yet to enroll in CAS, however CoEX has an open JS policy .

Continental and Continental Express (ExpressJet) are two different companies with two different jumpseat policies.

 

[Weasil]

The following is from a company memo....
______________________________________________________

US Airways will implement the CASS system for domestic flights on November 17th, 2005. This will allow US Airways pilots the ability to occupy jumpseats on other carriers who participate in the CASS program. In order to comply with CASS requirements, a pilot must check-in at the participating carrier's boarding gate with at least a company ID and a current passport. Many airlines also require your pilot certificate and/or a current medical certificate. The CASS process is only required if a pilot needs to occupy the cockpit jumpseat. Our normal jumpseat approval system is all that's required for a seat in the cabin. The gate agent will send a message using a six (6) digit employee number that will query the OA pilot's employee database to verify he/she is an active employee. In return, the agent will then be sent a message stating:

CASS Request Approved
CASS Request Denied
OAL Does Not Participate in CASS
or
Unknown Error Connecting

CASS jumpseat requests that are returned "CASS Request Denied" will not be authorized access to the aircraft. If denied, verify that a six (6) digit employee number was entered. (i.e. 000123, 001234, 012345) CASS jumpseat requests that are returned "OAL Does Not Participate in CASS" or "Unknown Error Connecting" will be allowed access to the cabin if a seat is available. If a CASS request is approved, the TSA requires that person to ride in the cabin if a seat is available

 

[mckpickle]

Can you clarify...was flight 1108 from DCA to EWR a CAL flight or an Express Flight?

 

[Weasil]

He said it was a mainline flight. CAL