Non B1tchers Only Please!

[DirkkDiggler]

I am tired of hearing the same few people complain about everything so I'm starting a new post where people can write about good things in aviation. I know there are still a lot of us out there who fly because we love it and for no other reason. I'll start things off:

For the last few years I have instructed and flown bank checks. It's been great and flying checks has made me a better pilot in ways I will never be able to imagine. Now I'm starting at a regional airline and I can't wait. It's been a lifelong dream of mine to fly a jet airliner and to see passengers and be a part of the whole process that is the airline experience for so many passengers each day. I know the pay isn't great but that's not why I started flying. Everytime I've flown since I was 4 years old, I've looked in awe at the pilots sitting in the cockpit and I've never wanted to do anything else. It's finally happening and life couldn't be any better. I hope others are having the same great experience in this industry and I can't wait to hear some great stories.

 

[TonyC]

I am tired of hearing the same few people complain about everything ...

It's been a long 2 weeks on Flightinfo, huh?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Lotsa bitching....check, I can handle this...............oh wait, you said no bitching......hmmmmm


Cant bitch too bad. Flew lots of stuff, got good experience, made it to my dream job at a Major, got furloughed......(insert some bitching here).......Went back to CFIing for a few months, scored a job in the left seat of corporate jet. All in all I can't complain, nobody cares anyhow!!

Still manage to burn jet fuel in a pint sized huff o matic during probably the worst time ever in aviation, so I'm pretty happy.

Still having fun, and that is what counts!

 

[Palerider957]

Good Karma

I hear ya, man. The bit.ching has been a little wearing lately. On the positive side, I just started flying a Citation on occaision and have been reminded how FUN flying is.

Just got back from DEN after spending a great Valentines day with my wife, a good time....man, those mountains and sunshine, it really doesn't get any better.

 

[jaybird]

I made the switch from checks to regional a few months ago and couldn't be happier. My QOL is has improved dramaticaly. Sure the first year pay sucks, but it gets better.

 

[crashpad]

Sure the first year pay sucks, ....

"Ladies and gentleman we're about to leave our cruising altitude and descend from this thread. Due to inclimate attitudes at our destination, we won't be landing at the I'm O.K.-You're O.K. Corral."

I love my job, too - for the record,

 

[Humphry]

Still manage to burn jet fuel in a pint sized huff o matic during probably the worst time ever in aviation, so I'm pretty happy.


So what's your thought on when this "worst time ever" will start to come to an end? Anyone?

 

[ALCOHOLIC]

I am tired of hearing the same few people complain about everything so I'm starting a new post where people can write about good things in aviation. I know there are still a lot of us out there who fly because we love it and for no other reason. I'll start things off:

For the last few years I have instructed and flown bank checks. It's been great and flying checks has made me a better pilot in ways I will never be able to imagine. Now I'm starting at a regional airline and I can't wait. It's been a lifelong dream of mine to fly a jet airliner and to see passengers and be a part of the whole process that is the airline experience for so many passengers each day. I know the pay isn't great but that's not why I started flying. Everytime I've flown since I was 4 years old, I've looked in awe at the pilots sitting in the cockpit and I've never wanted to do anything else. It's finally happening and life couldn't be any better. I hope others are having the same great experience in this industry and I can't wait to hear some great stories.

How old are you?

 

[sgu]

the guat

Heeees baaaack!............

 

[TWA Dude]

Flying is cool.

I forgot, what was the question?

 

[MJG]

Dirk,

Not trying to rain on your parade. Just a little reality check on what you're about to jump into. Work hard while you're at work and then leave it at the airport and enjoy your days off.

Come on back and re-post your thread in a couple of years. I think your new found enthusiasm for this job will have waned. You'll soon begin to see that you're just a number to your company. That honestly they don't really appreciate the hard work you do for them. All they care about are on time stats and profits. This happens at every company when they start to grow. I have flown for a "REAgionaL airline" for nearly six years now. Started out on a 1900 and now the EMB jet. I have kept my record clean and have gone out of my way and way over my job description to keep our customers happy. I have never once even been thanked or recognized by my company for my hard work and dedication. I'm just another number to them.

You'll soon see that flying any airliner is not really like flight instructing or even flying checks alone through the quite night skies. This "flying" is very rigid, regulated and structured. Deviating from the norm in any manner is discouraged and can lead to diciplinary action. Checks don't complain, people do and they do so every day, day in and day out. They complain because they're ignorant of the process of which, for a few hours, they've become a part of. They call you incompetent, immature and uncaring. They do so and they don't even know you or your side of the story.

This isn't "flying" by my definition. This is "systems managing". It's not the same and it's not very much fun. Sure the view is great some days but one can only get so excited about overnighting in Rochester NY for the seemingly hundredth time.

Luckily my wife just got her private certificate last year and I'm able to go "flying" with her from time to time. I love getting back to the basics of low and slow. So I would say that I still "love" flying as much as I ever have. But I've certainly redefined my definition of just exactly what "flying" really is.

It's great to see your enthusiasm. I was the same way when I started out as a Beech FO(the hardest working pilots in 121 flying). Run with it and have a blast with it. Travel as much as you can now before you settle into this industry. It really is awesome for the first years so enjoy it while the enthusiasm lasts.

 

[Mike man]

I was a CFI for three years and nearly 2000 hours, true some days were bad but the good days, hands down, out numbered the bad days.

I have just started at a regional airline and yes the training department does do silly things and so does the management, but so far the good days have again out numbered the bad ones. And that is what I am looking forward to, more good days than bad.

My dad works for a car company he loves his job, he has been there over 25 years, and yes some days are bad but again the good days out number the bad ones.

My wife is a teacher she has been a 2nd grade teacher for 4 years. Some days are bad but most of the days are good.

In every single job in the world there is B.S. that you will have to deal with. But most people will say that the good days out number the bad ones.

And as for MJG quit your job...go back to the basics and be a CFI again--or go get a job doing something else. In what job will you not be just a number to your employer? In some jobs you don't have a union number--but which company overall does not treat you like a worker?

Maybe, if we as a group were more positive about out jobs we would like it more--just a thought.

I love flying, I love people watching in airports, and I love systems managing in my 145, and I love when people are getting of the plane and say nice job or nice landing, or when they stop by on there way in the plane to say "sweet panel" or something like that, or when a young passenger comes up and we let him/her sit in a seat and wear one of our hats and his mom or dad takes his picture. That is pretty cool.

Try to be more positive and you will enjoy your job more...just try it for a few weeks, be super positive and you will enjoy your job more. And as for the ROC overnight you need a new hotel, the Holiday Inn has a good gym, a pool and free computers with DSL and printers 24HRS...or you could rent a car for $25 and take the crew to the Eastman Estate for a few hours (as in Eastman/Kodak film and cameras).

 

[Long Time Gone]

Re: the guat

Heeees baaaack!............

WHERE?????????

I miss him.

BTW, don't mention his name anymore......everytime it is mentioned, the thread goes POOF and disappears. Don't mention TABExpressFO, either. Same thing happens.

LTG

 

[MJG]

I have just started at a regional airline.

Mike,

Congratulations, welcome to the airlines. Like I said enjoy it now because you and your family will soon see what I mean. FWIW I never said I didn't like my job. But I don't consider work "fun" either. In fact I really like flying with newbies. It's refreshing and fun to watch their enthusiasm. But one of the priceless things I see in my job is when I'm flying with a brand new FO that thinks this is the best thing in the world. Then some jack@ss comes up on his way off the plane and tells us how that was the worst flight he's ever been on and our airline is the worst one he's ever flown. The look on the newbie's face is just priceless.

There are plenty of good and positive things in aviation. But in my opinion "flying" at an airline is not one of them. It's my job and it pays the bills but it's not a positive part of the aviation world if you ask me. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Mike man]

I've already had that happen a passenger came up and told us that this was the worst flight he had even been on and it was too bumpy and that the landing was bad. I'm not sure the look on my face was priceless, but more of a have a nice day look and mostly a look of this guy is the biggest jacka$$ ever and I hope he got it.

Anyway read the title of the thread and get out this is a place for non bitcher$ only...no cry babies.

You never answered any of my questions.

Plus here is my advice to you...quit you F$CKING JOB. Not now but soon, go back to school and pick something that you want to do get a BS or MA in something you have always wanted to do and then come back here in a few years and tell us all how much you miss flying and that you are not appreciated by your company and that you are in fact just a number to them too. Good luck in school, and in finding a job that you will enjoy.

 

[MJG]

I have just started at a regional airline

That says it all right there. Good luck my friend.

 

[sgu]

you'll learn

Plus here is my advice to you...quit you F$CKING JOB. Not now but soon, go back to school and pick something that you want to do get a BS or MA in something you have always wanted to do and then come back here in a few years and tell us all how much you miss flying and that you are not appreciated by your company and that you are in fact just a number to them too. Good luck in school, and in finding a job that you will enjoy.

Instead if agitating MJG you may want to sit back and listen to those of us that have been doing this for some time especially after 9/11 and see the real dirty airline business. It was not too long ago that the CEO's were slashing costs but paying themselves big bonuses at the same time they were trying to push "lets work together through this." Now the "Regionals" are now legitimate "nationals" such as SkyWest and ExpressJet but seem to still think the pilots still should earn a low paycheck for a job well done!
There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep a positive attitude and sing KumBayyah but do not force it on those that have been jaded and screwed. Good luck.

 

[210FR8DOG]

I worked in the Texas prison system for 5 years. We were treated worse than the inmates. The smell was horrible, we were "in" prison also for 12 hours a day with very strict rules. It sucked.

I worked at the US Postal Service for 2 years. We were treated worse than the automated machinery we were operating, blah blah blah.

I just started with TSA. Will I be treated like horse-dung here? Probably. Boo-who cares. I just got done hauling checks for 2 years. I would just be happy with a plane that has a heater that works-got that! Auto pilot-BONUS. Glass cockpit-BONUS. Jet Engines-BONUS. Air-conditioning-BIIIIG BONUS!!!

Of course there's ups and downs to every career. Overall, this job kicks a$$. The EMB-145 kicks a$$. Thats one thing I learned by doing "normal" jobs for several years before getting into aviation. Just ask the TWA guys who are back in the saddle how they enjoyed the last 2 years doing "normal" jobs. Thats why they're in class with me now. I realize I'm brand new in the airlines, haven't even hit the line yet. But I'm no snot-nose kid born yesterday. I've been treated bad and underpaid by the best of 'em and never had near this much fun at it. You guys that are so jaded should try doing something else for a while. Then YOU can come back and post in a couple of years and maybe the attitude would come full-circle back to the excitement and enthusiasm of a new-hire. Ya'll are gonna have to try hard to knock this cowboy down. I'm havin' a blast and I don't see it ending anytime soon. Fly safe!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

My personal opinion, its a great job once we close the door and get to be pilots. everything in between, including a lot on this board.... BLOWS.

Hope TSA is treating you well my friend, Tailwinds.

 

[GogglesPisano]

MJG: Thoughtful posts.

Mike: For someone who has just started in this profession, to tell someone who is a little more seasoned to quit his "F$CKING JOB" smacks of immaturity and the bravado of hiding behind a screen name that infects these boards. Hopefully you'll still be posting five years from now (BTW, you'll more than likely still be at a regional -- statistics and the state of the industry and all that.) If you still feel the same way that you do now, then you will have been vindicated.

And as a reminder, MJG never said he didn't like his job, he just recognizes what it is and how he is viewed by his "management team."

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Thanks to all of you who have contributed your enjoyable comments and stories. Those of you who have "been around a while" and feel the need to burst everyone's bubble, so to speak, should really think hard about your motives. After someone tells you a happy story about their job and how much they enjoy it, what could compel you to try to tell them that they are wrong and they should not be enjoying things quite so much. No one is trying to force their happy feelings on you, they are just happy and kindly sharing their happy thoughts instead of their cynical views of life in the airline industry. I flew overnight checks for two years, which is more than most of you regional pilots who have been flying for a regional probably ever did. I can tell you that flying overnight checks is neither glamorous nor good for your morale or lifestyle. It is a far cry from the relatively easy life of a regional pilot. Even after two years of flying checks, I still had a positive view of my job as a pilot and wasn't nearly as jaded as some of you here. So just because you are flying for a regional, and some of us have just started with a regional, doesn't necessarily make you more experienced than the rest of us. In fact, I'd argue that anyone who flew checks or some other such job between instructing and the regionals has a more worldly view of this profession than people who went straight from instructing to the right seat at a regional. We've been around and we're still happy and plan on remaining that way. It's all about perspective and if you're not happy in your job, maybe you should take a step back and reevaluate how you look at your job. I don't think you need to leave the job, but it may help if you look for some other way to get satisfaction from it. After all, life is what your given. It's then up to you to make the most of it. Enjoy life, it's a gift! Some of you check haulers should recognize that!

 

[d.fitz]

I flew overnight checks for two years, which is more than most of you regional pilots who have been flying for a regional probably ever did.

Is someone looking for a can opener? : )

The guys here have paid their dues. I agree with you on alot of this because I have previously worked in another field. Since I have switched though, nothing has changed. I still love flying (even though I am currently layed off).

But still, you are opening a can of worms here. MANY of these guys have paid their dues, I dont think you should bring that into question.

Just FWIW...

 

[acaTerry]

This isn't "flying" by my definition. This is "systems managing".

Then you are doing it wrong. Ralph Butcher, a recently retired UAL pilot, just wrote an article on how so many people have become airplane drivers rather than airplane pilots.
Turn off the AFCS and fly the thing. Then maybe you'll feel like a pilot again.


The EMB-145 kicks a$$.

Just started at TSA? The 41 would have been more fun....although I wouldn't say its a$$ kicking. Enjoy it!

 

[DirkkDiggler]

exactly

 

[KingAirKiddo]

My personal opinion, its a great job once we close the door and get to be pilots. everything in between, including a lot on this board.... BLOWS.

Hope TSA is treating you well my friend, Tailwinds.

DITTO.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

Happiness won't get you money

What it comes down to Dirk, is at one time I had the same view is your original post. In fact that's a nice paragraph for a school creative writing assignment about dreams. The real world however isn't quite that nice. Please post again when you're on a 18 hour Christmas Eve overnight in downtown Dayton, nothing's open, you're getting paid $20.50 an hour for 7 hours of flying for a 2 day trip that takes you away from home for 30 hours. Management loves it when pilots talk about the joys of flying with no complaints. My guess is that the "regional" pilots with little or no grievances either began flying for a "regional" with no debt or even lots of personal capital and/or have a very supportive high income spouse and/or parents. Its business and when a typical "regional" FO makes less than a senior FA, somethings really messed up. All the b__ching on this forum addresses the fact that we are being poorly compensated for the huge liability involved in operating a complex machine with many lives at stake. Don't be surprised to find the real airline pilot life isn't as glamorous as you thought. When that happens, think of this board as a sort of therapy, express your displeasures here and you'll likely be less negative in the real world when interacting with family and friends.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Scuba Steve:

How 'bout sitting in a shack in Detroit in the middle of a blizard on New Years Eve, flying a beat up baron after flying three legs and having to load and unload 1,000 pounds of boxes and bags at each stop in a freezing wind. Then having to look forward to two more legs into more storms and icing conditions that your aircraft was never meant to be flown through. Even on that night, I wouldn't have traded my career for anything else. So to address your point that most people who are happy in the regional industry probably had Mom and Dad pay for training, went straight to a regional, and never had to work a day in their lives; it shows how naive one can be! If you don't like the pay, find a new job. You knew what it was when you took the job and you should accept that. To put things in perspective, you would never take a job as an accountant with Microsoft knowing full well what your salary would be for the next ten years, and then after one year start bitching that you think you should be earning more (and then have the nerve to expect the company to give in to your demands because you have some sort of seniority). It's called working your way up and accepting things for what they are. If you guys want to get paid as much as a United captain right off the bat, you should probably marry some rich chick whose dad owns a GV and become his pilot without putting in any effort or paying your dues. I don't really care if you're unhappy in your job. That is a personal problem that you have to deal with and maybe you deal with it by b1tching on this website. If you were to leave the job, you can be sure that there are 100 people who would be HAPPY to have your job and may even have the sense to realize what a blessing it is to have such a kushy, relatively well paid job. As soon as I'm not happy in this career, I will look for a new one. But with as much b1tching as there is on this site, nobody really thinks it is that bad because if they did, they'd find new jobs PDQ.

 

[DirkkDiggler]

1

 

[Britpilot]

What MJG said.
Do some time in this bussiness before you start pointing the finger.

 

[I Hate Freight]

That says it all right there. Good luck my friend.

Please quit your job as soon as possible and walk my resume in on your way out.

Thanks!