No Teamsters at Flexjet!

[Seahawk]

It’s over!

 

[Dooker]

Congrats on crowning yourselves the biggest tools in aviation.

 

[exagony]

Good luck getting hired at airlines when you get your head out of your arses and NN shows you his real self

 

[squawk]

Good luck getting hired at airlines when you get your head out of your arses and NN shows you his real self

you assume the 318 are looking at airline jobs?

 

[exagony]

They will be soon as soon as the true Ricci shows up

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Enjoy riding it into the dirt. We'll be watching for your resumes. I hear home depot is hiring.

 

[Hogprint]

Wow...I really didn’t think they’d do it.

 

[GooodLaaa]

Wow...I really didn’t think they’d do it.

OOOHHHH THEY DID IT! Funny thing is I don’t think they realize how bad they did. They’re not quite scabs.... more like scabbies! If they think any hiring board (most of us that pay attention here are familiar with) will take them in, they’re nuts. I feel bad for the few Onesky voters that worked against desert.

 

[rajflyboy]

Baghdad bob

that explains it

 

[ghostrider64]

Enjoy riding it into the dirt. We'll be watching for your resumes. I hear home depot is hiring.

In the PLUMBING section....toilets are where they belong...

 

[hydrarkt]

It's actually going to be interesting to watch. It will be the example of what happens when you eliminate the Union. I figure it's like the Titanic. No big deal in the beginning. Then the water starts seeping in... more, more, more... then everyone realizes they're in trouble... then everyone, realizing that bailing is futile, heads for the lifeboats, only to find there aren't enough lifeboats for everyone. Then the whole things goes down like a rock.

The difference here is that the Titanic Captain didn't drive into the iceberg intentionally.

 

[FracMonkey]

You guys sound like a bunch of f*kin kindergartners. "Ohhhhh, you're in trouble!"

All of you who insinuate that FLOPS/Flex pilots might as well not even apply for airline jobs and instead go to work at Home Depot are everything that was wrong with the union in the first place. The union used fear and intimidation to try to stay in power. They ran a p*ss poor campaign based on what the pilot group stood to lose if they were voted out instead of running a campaign based on what they could deliver. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. All they had to do was look at the last presidential election to see what people want. People want hope, not threats of hopelessness and those of you who continue the mantra of hopelessness simply reinforce the reason that the union lost.

You want to know the real reason the union lost? The Teamsters abandoned the pilots of FLOPS/Flex. It's that simple and heres why.

The teamsters are a business, and just like any other business they periodically look at each of their units and consider whether each one is a net asset or a net liability. One little tiny unit (the 1108) was costing them a small fortune to support and eventually they looked at that and had to decide to either fish or cut bait. Their decision was obvious to anyone who was paying attention.

Why do I say this? It's really quite simple. During this campaign we saw letters of support from ALPA, APA, SWAPA, NJASAP, and NFLPA. All of the heavy hitters in the industry came out in support of organized labor and NFLPA was forced to throw their support behind the 1108 after a former player performed in one of NN's desert videos. Who didn't we hear from? We didn't hear a peep out of the Teamsters Airline Division or Teamsters international. The sad truth is that the very organization that purported to represent you, failed you because you were costing them too much money.

So to those of you who stand and point at me and all of the other pilots at FLOPS/Flex and scream "Ohhhhh, you're in trouble!" I say "P*SS OFF!"

The pilots didn't fail the union, the union failed the pilots.

 

[GE6108A]

Frac,
You are correct on a few points, but your blame is slightly misplaced. First, history is going to repeat itself which is why the industry is largely mocking you guys. We have already seen the Ricci show at Travel Air/Flight Options before and we know how it ends. The majority of his employees will not be "winning". He is a great salesman, a profound narcissist and a staggering liar.
1108 made a lot of missteps and they were outgunned. Ricci threw everything at them but the kitchen sink and you conveniently forget, it probably cost Ricci more to pursue than it did the IBT to defend. Imagine if he actually used that money responsibly and maybe paid you guys or bought more airplanes. The numbers don't match his assertion that you are growing. You aren't.
You all miss a simple concept, in that unity provides strength. You are your own worst enemy. You provided no leverage for your negotiators and Ricci exploited you. Yet you blame this third party, the Union. You fundamentally don't get that you are the union and you had some control over your future if you had just taken the time to learn how to be a unionized pilot. At some point, you guys are going to figure this out and you'll have no one to blame but yourself. The ENTIRE industry told you not to do this but you think you are smarter than the rest of us. You guys aren't the highest paid and you never will be. You just made sure of that.

 

[squawk]

You guys sound like a bunch of f*kin kindergartners. "Ohhhhh, you're in trouble!"

All of you who insinuate that FLOPS/Flex pilots might as well not even apply for airline jobs and instead go to work at Home Depot are everything that was wrong with the union in the first place. The union used fear and intimidation to try to stay in power. They ran a p*ss poor campaign based on what the pilot group stood to lose if they were voted out instead of running a campaign based on what they could deliver. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. All they had to do was look at the last presidential election to see what people want. People want hope, not threats of hopelessness and those of you who continue the mantra of hopelessness simply reinforce the reason that the union lost.

You want to know the real reason the union lost? The Teamsters abandoned the pilots of FLOPS/Flex. It's that simple and heres why.

The teamsters are a business, and just like any other business they periodically look at each of their units and consider whether each one is a net asset or a net liability. One little tiny unit (the 1108) was costing them a small fortune to support and eventually they looked at that and had to decide to either fish or cut bait. Their decision was obvious to anyone who was paying attention.

Why do I say this? It's really quite simple. During this campaign we saw letters of support from ALPA, APA, SWAPA, NJASAP, and NFLPA. All of the heavy hitters in the industry came out in support of organized labor and NFLPA was forced to throw their support behind the 1108 after a former player performed in one of NN's desert videos. Who didn't we hear from? We didn't hear a peep out of the Teamsters Airline Division or Teamsters international. The sad truth is that the very organization that purported to represent you, failed you because you were costing them too much money.

So to those of you who stand and point at me and all of the other pilots at FLOPS/Flex and scream "Ohhhhh, you're in trouble!" I say "P*SS OFF!"

The pilots didn't fail the union, the union failed the pilots.

Real Flexjet pilots and many FLOPS transfers never wanted this union. The IBT attempted to organized years ago and it failed. By such a narrow margin on the vote, it really never got a footing and never represented Flexjet. They chose to take a crap contract and force us to work under it. We weren’t paying dues and never would even if this vote turned out differently. How is that going to work?

Nobody called us scabs when when we decided not to vote in the IBT before. We operated peacefully for 20 years without a union. So, WE conformed to all labor laws and petitioned the NMB and lawfully, democratically chose to eliminate an unworthy union. That’s how it works in America. The IBT got a no confidence vote 5x5.

You sore losers who want to improperly invoke the scab label, come out from your anonymity in here and say it to our faces on the line and see how that works for you. Otherwise, go into your Flightinfo preferences and change your ID to chicken****.

 

[Seahawk]

:crying:These Union minions on here are proof that some men are inferior, endowed by their Maker with dim wits, impermeable to reason, with cold, pallid slime in their veins instead of hot red blood! They are more reptile than man, So low and flat, that the foot of man is incapable of crushing them!

 

[DirtyBeech]

So expand upon the union accepting a crap contract. No really. I’d love to hear this.

Consistently wrong, but never in doubt is a poor way to go through life.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Real Flexjet pilots and many FLOPS transfers never wanted this union. The IBT attempted to organized years ago and it failed. By such a narrow margin on the vote, it really never got a footing and never represented Flexjet. They chose to take a crap contract and force us to work under it. We weren’t paying dues and never would even if this vote turned out differently. How is that going to work?

Nobody called us scabs when when we decided not to vote in the IBT before. We operated peacefully for 20 years without a union. So, WE conformed to all labor laws and petitioned the NMB and lawfully, democratically chose to eliminate an unworthy union. That’s how it works in America. The IBT got a no confidence vote 5x5.

You sore losers who want to improperly invoke the scab label, come out from your anonymity in here and say it to our faces on the line and see how that works for you. Otherwise, go into your Flightinfo preferences and change your ID to chicken****.

You of all people should learn to shut your ****ing mouth. Humility might just be the only thing you have in your arsenal to save your certificate. Be grateful the people with all the proof needed to bust your ass with the FAA aren't as hell bent on retribution as you seem to be hell bent on excusing your narcissism, stupidity and deception. You're not a good person and you know it. You do a good job of playing both ends against the middle but the problem for you and people like you is now everyone knows exactly what kind of person you really are.

Enjoy that taste in your mouth. You certainly earned it. It's not quite the essence of that deep cabernet you were expecting, huh?

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

He sure had me fooled. Not any more.

 

[FracMonkey]

You of all people should learn to shut your ****ing mouth. Humility might just be the only thing you have in your arsenal to save your certificate. Be grateful the people with all the proof needed to bust your ass with the FAA aren't as hell bent on retribution as you seem to be hell bent on excusing your narcissism, stupidity and deception. You're not a good person and you know it. You do a good job of playing both ends against the middle but the problem for you and people like you is now everyone knows exactly what kind of person you really are.

Enjoy that taste in your mouth. You certainly earned it. It's not quite the essence of that deep cabernet you were expecting, huh?

Wow.........kinda speechless over here. And that doesn’t happen often....

 

[EngineThunder]

Be grateful the people with all the proof needed to bust your ass with the FAA aren't as hell bent on retribution as you seem to be hell bent on excusing your narcissism, stupidity and deception.

One of them may be becoming hell bent very soon. This could get interesting.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Be grateful the people with all the proof needed to bust your ass with the FAA aren't as hell bent on retribution as you seem to be hell bent on excusing your narcissism, stupidity and deception.

One of them may be becoming hell bent very soon. This could get interesting.

I know. He should have just kept his mouth shut and his head low after that picture surfaced but he just couldn't help himself.

Even so, I'd still advocate figuring out how to put this behind you or move on. The only man in control of how gracefully that's done is Kenn Ricci. It will be interesting to watch his next few moves because they will be what determines an end to this division or it's continuation.

Either way it be exactly what he wants. I'm truly astounded at his masterful skills. Fracmonkey, I'm not so sure I agree with you the union lost this. In my opinion Kenn Ricci won it. You have to give credit where credit is due.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

What was the strategy again? Make the job so horrible that nearly everyone that sticks around is only doing so because of the huge skeletons in their closet? Everyone who can leave, has? Except the poor unfortunate few that should have left sooner but will be scrambling now to get out before the place folds? That strategy? Well, then I guess he won. It sure will be fun to watch.

 

[squawk]

What was the strategy again? Make the job so horrible that nearly everyone that sticks around is only doing so because of the huge skeletons in their closet? Everyone who can leave, has? Except the poor unfortunate few that should have left sooner but will be scrambling now to get out before the place folds? That strategy? Well, then I guess he won. It sure will be fun to watch.

So, the IBT was the power structure that was holding up this company?
Now that they are gone, we are going to fold like a bad hand?
I had no idea!

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Everyone who can leave, has?

That is a ridiculousIy broad assumption. Sounds like my teenage son (Everyone!). I could leave if I wanted to. If I change my mind and decide to leave, I will. And, don't feed me the line of BS that no one will hire us...

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

You could try Great Lakes. Except they failed for a lack of pilots willing to work for a fleabag operation. Lol.

 

[GE6108A]

Members in good standing (i.e. dues payers) have withdrawal cards, the rest of you self-interested dumb a$$ pilots will find employment at unionized carriers challenging. There are a bunch of truck driving schools looking for candidates but you may want to save some money to pay for that training.

 

[FracMonkey]

Frac,
You are correct on a few points, but your blame is slightly misplaced. First, history is going to repeat itself which is why the industry is largely mocking you guys. We have already seen the Ricci show at Travel Air/Flight Options before and we know how it ends. The majority of his employees will not be "winning". He is a great salesman, a profound narcissist and a staggering liar.
1108 made a lot of missteps and they were outgunned. Ricci threw everything at them but the kitchen sink and you conveniently forget, it probably cost Ricci more to pursue than it did the IBT to defend. Imagine if he actually used that money responsibly and maybe paid you guys or bought more airplanes. The numbers don't match his assertion that you are growing. You aren't.
You all miss a simple concept, in that unity provides strength. You are your own worst enemy. You provided no leverage for your negotiators and Ricci exploited you. Yet you blame this third party, the Union. You fundamentally don't get that you are the union and you had some control over your future if you had just taken the time to learn how to be a unionized pilot. At some point, you guys are going to figure this out and you'll have no one to blame but yourself. The ENTIRE industry told you not to do this but you think you are smarter than the rest of us. You guys aren't the highest paid and you never will be. You just made sure of that.

The arrogance is another reason the union lost and your own words provide a prefect example of that arrogance. "You this, and you guys that." I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and proceed as though your "You" statements are directed at the collective and not me personally. Either way, it doesn't change the fact the you as an obvious supporter would like to place blame anywhere but where it actually belongs. The union ran a p*ss poor campaign and the results were foreseeable, especially given the deafening silence the pilot group heard from the international and the airline division.

As far as unity goes, that is not something that happens organically. It was the union leadership's job to build solidarity and they didn't do that. I personally know that the recommendation was made that a solidarity committee be stood up to build support for the union. That recommendation fell on deaf ears due in large part to the aforementioned arrogance. The union's leadership thought they had all the answers and true to form discounted a well reasoned recommendation from a member.

Your statement about us thinking we are smarter than the entire industry is yet another display of the arrogance of organized labor. I'm just going to let that t*rd lie there and stink. There's no need to expand on that one.

Fracmonkey, I'm not so sure I agree with you the union lost this. In my opinion Kenn Ricci won it. You have to give credit where credit is due.

I agree with you 100%, credit is due. I am simply pointing out the deafening silence that was heard from the organization that the OneSky pilots trusted with their futures. They had their chance and they elected to turn their backs when the pilots who wanted to be organized needed them most. Very telling.

Members in good standing (i.e. dues payers) have withdrawal cards, the rest of you self-interested dumb a$$ pilots will find employment at unionized carriers challenging. There are a bunch of truck driving schools looking for candidates but you may want to save some money to pay for that training.

Again with the arrogance and doom and gloom. BTW, where did you get your crystal ball? Mine doesn't work that well and I would love to be as prescient as you. I know prescient is a big word. Look it up or better yet, ask your crystal ball to define it for you.

 

[Dirty Squirrel]

Members in good standing (i.e. dues payers) have withdrawal cards, the rest of you self-interested dumb a$$ pilots will find employment at unionized carriers challenging. There are a bunch of truck driving schools looking for candidates but you may want to save some money to pay for that training.

I was a MIGS and voted “no representation”. Hmmm.

 

[DirtyBeech]

His crystal ball works because of the simple axiom that states that those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Ricci is 3 for 3 in having a union formed after being given a chance to run things his way. I’m not sure he’ll be 4 for 4, because the 1108 is your only option when you choose to organize again, and they may or may not tell you to pound sand.

As may the Airlines when the exodus continues. And it will. You just did something unprecedented. Something every airline union told you not to do. Speaking of arrogance.

The union, read you, wasn’t going to build solidarity. The 318 who just f’d themselves were always going to vote NO. Much like “squawk” ,who suddenly decided to play dumb on the subject, they never paid a dime in dues despite being forgiven back payment, never opened a union email, never participated in the process and never contacted their reps to get involved. They sat on their a$$es and expected it to just be handed to them, and then decerted when the arbitrator, who specifically mentioned the lack of unity in his rulings, gave them the barest contract that he could. A contract that the company fought tooth and nail against. Not that a single decerter could speak intelligently about a single proposal company or union.

No, Ken just had to wait for 20% of the group to leave while promising his true believers and returned furloughees/ transfers a bag of silver. 318 votes out of an original 700 person pilot group is 45%. Do you recall what the original organizing vote numbers were? Look familiar?

And, as predicted, 2NN started his fu**ery within 30 minutes of the vote. A ton of people just took it in the shorts on the seniority list that Kenn has made apparent he doesn’t honor anyway (hilariously the small group who lost the most with the ISL and were pissed about it just lost a ton more), individual employment agreements were reinstated which once again “aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on” unless you violate one, and those FO pay rates were raised to something completely uncompetitive with even the lowest paid ULCC’s.

A ton more people are about to leave FJ and you don’t have a prayer of recruiting anywhere near enough to replace them. In short, FJ will wither on the vine. Maybe 2NN is content to leave 1/4 of his planes uncrewed while chartering out the rest of his flying. He’ll be paying himself either way. Probably he’ll fold shop, sell off the remainder and use a different certificate to start again and maybe drag his FOK’s with him. But you’re done. Even if he FJ matched airline compensation you would be uncompetitive in schedule, quality of life, and workload with the majors. Done. Good luck with that.

 

[Enough BS]

There’s about 6 of you boys dominating the fractional message boards. If you keep talking to yourselves long enough, you’ll start believing what you say is the truth (again). The real numbers point to the truth, you got it wrong!

Two years ago IBT already on the property had weak support and insufficient solidarity, evidenced by only winning by 20ish votes. Of those who voted for the IBT back then their true support was shaky at best and a down hill slide to present day. You will (wrongly) argue the company hired anti union pilots for the last two years and many supporters went elsewhere. I will argue the company hired pilots looking for work, just like you were when you came here. Your supporters who left didn’t believe either, and bailed. We could start a whole thread just on this paragraph but why bother? The result is reality and you’ve been through enough.

Another false talking point you have yourselves believing is how the 321 pilots who voted against the IBT won’t be able to work anywhere else. Obviously this type of scare tactic didn’t serve the IBT well. It sounded childish and makes you that spew the same garbage sound childish too. The industry knows the Teamsters and the intimidation tactics that are their signature. The industry also knows the IBT failed.

This was a battle against a failed organization that was on shaky ground in the first place. The 1108’s failure did more to hurt 96,000 unionized Pilots than the pilots who voted no representation. This will be reinforced when IBT officials go to court for the intimidating mail and packages that terrorized innocent families. I’d keep those withdrawal cards safely in your wallets unless someone asks to see it.

So to you guys who are the vocal minority it’s time to realize just that - your the minority. Give yourselves a break and let it go.