No Military for CAL?

[C5drvr]

It was either 3 or 4 that were Reserve or ANG. I'm currently on extended Mil Leave (my unit has been very active in the war on terror) but I'll ask my buddy to look into it.

I also looked back at the summer classes. There were only three. One per month with only 8 per class. Of those 24, 6 were USAF. It ddidn't specify if any of them were in the reserve or guard. I no one of them, and he is still in the reserve. I hope this info helps. I'll be sure to start a new post if I find out anything important.

To all the new hires welcome aboard, and to all those still trying for the interview--keep plugging along. It takes a lot of persaverance to get hired by a Major.

 

[LJDRVR]

Albie, that was some interesting HUD footage. Being an ex-shoe clerk guy I'm not remotely qualified to comment on the pointy jet side of things, but I was curious: Isn't there a fairly large loss of SA there? Looks to me like all the guy did was bleed off energy while turning to remain over a high-threat area at 12-17k, which would seem to my uneducated mind to be not a very good method for SAM avoidance. Just interested to see what you guys thought about that, I'm certainly not criticizing, just curious. (Heck, I couldn't even play a game of crud, let alone fly a fighter.) Thre was a short lull there between him being defensive where somebody was calling for him to egress, it seemed like he ignored them completely.

On another note, who else is gonna be in class with me tomorrow in Houston? I flew my last trip as an Express Jet Captain last night, and am really looking forward to training.

I'll second the comments on Albie's interview preparation services. Time and money very well-spent.

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Way to be part of the team at happy hour. Get lost on the way?

Uh oh...is this the kind of behavior I can expect out of him? He already owes me almost a keg...is he going to be a "slam clicker?"

-Neal

 

[BluDevAv8r]

It was either 3 or 4 that were Reserve or ANG. I'm currently on extended Mil Leave (my unit has been very active in the war on terror) but I'll ask my buddy to look into it.

I also looked back at the summer classes. There were only three. One per month with only 8 per class. Of those 24, 6 were USAF. It ddidn't specify if any of them were in the reserve or guard. I no one of them, and he is still in the reserve. I hope this info helps. I'll be sure to start a new post if I find out anything important.

To all the new hires welcome aboard, and to all those still trying for the interview--keep plugging along. It takes a lot of persaverance to get hired by a Major.

I was hired in April. 4 of the 12 in my class were military. 1 AF, 2 USN, 1 USMC. An ANG friend starts tomorrow and an AFRES friend hopefully will get the nod within 24 hours.

I wonder if the relatively low number of military new hires has something to do with a fewer amount of pilots separating as well as the propensity for those that are to want to go to FDX, SWA, and UPS (more military there and better pay/benefits).

-Neal

 

[AlbieF15]

Right now everyone involved with the hiring process professes how much they love hiring pilots who are former military members. And I think as long as all of us associated with the military already here remain the best and most professional pilots at CAL we can continue to get our former squadron mates interviews ahead of most other off the street pilots. ​

Duke Forbes
CALALPA Military Liaison
CDR USN ​

nths.[/quote]

With respect to Duke, and also noting Scrap's recent success...the words in Italics and underline spell out the real story. "Former" military means no current military commitments. Also--as an interview coach--I can twist words pretty well. Saying they "love" hiring former military members certainly doesn't mean they do a lot of it, does it? There are a lot of things I love to do that I don't do as much as I'd like... (You know--you have to leave the wife at home sometime to go to work... )

All that aside--Coex guys can expect to contractually get their shot. They've been part of the "family" for a while, know the system, and seem to do very well on the line. It makes sense to me the company would want those guys. They also have good access to their supervisors--in other words they can get a very candid and solid look at what they are getting. Outside looking in, it would make sense (to me) to hire a lot of those guys and gals.

And yes...miltary bonus take rates lately have been > 60%. Not as many guys are bailing out. Who wants to leave an 80k a year job with a 25k bonus and a solid retirement to go make < 35k their first year at UPS, Jetblue, or Continental? It can be done--but you have to have a backup plan and a support network. The days of guys getting out and making over 100k their second or third year, while not over, are much harder to come by.

 

[AlbieF15]

LJDRVR,

I'll defer to the Viper guys to answer if that was sound or not. I honestly don't know. What I can tell you is HUDs FOV is 10 degrees or so, so the sky could be black with AAA (I suspect it was) right under them. Unloading aggressively downhill takes several thousand feet, and going downhill might have been exactly wrong there...again...I was in a M113 while this battle was going on so I don't have the full picture. Also--he's got tanks and bombs on his jet, although I would assume those have long since been jettisoned... Again--if you are looking for me to criticize anyone on their flying in that situation keep lookin'...ain't gonna happen.

What I can tell you is the tape does capture some of the intensity and sensory overload that can take place. Keep in mind, while SAMs take up the comm time, the pilot is looking outside, cross checking his radar warning receiver, his radar, trying to keep sight of his wingman, visually acquiring the SAMs, all the while his hands are playing the piccolo as he selects various radar and weapons modes. I get asked all the time what flying an F-15 is like--I can simply say "like nothing else..." It is NOT like flying an airshow routine. It is NOT like doing ACRO. It is NOT like playing a video game. It is not like being in a wrestling match. It is NOT like playing chess. It is like trying to do all of those at once. Quickly. While a thousand sensory inputs pound at all your senses. This guy is playing the same game--but if he makes a mistake the consquence is he gets shot down and maybe dies. I've got a very good friend who shot down a Mig in Kosovo--he was just as excited but had a much better outcome.

Stick and rudder skills count, but they are but a fraction of what I've seen it take to be really good at the game. I think as an F15 IP we all try to figure out when we get a new class "who will be GOOD at this...." Sometimes--you get it right. Sometimes...you don't. The super tough athlete with straight As sometimes rocks. Sometimes he leaves to go fly E-3s. The dorky little guy who seems like a dweeb washes out sometimes. Sometimes he's the top grad in the class and 3 years later in on the way to Weapons School.

Long answer to a short question I know...

 

[LJDRVR]

Again--if you are looking for me to criticize anyone on their flying in that situation keep lookin'...ain't gonna happen.

God, no. I was just curious as to whether or not his actions and reactions were considered a normal response. I have a strong human factors background, but without the perspective of somebody who's graduated from IFF and been trained on a specific airframe, and flown in combat, I can only make half-assed observations and ask others for their opinions. I saw a copy of that HUD Video at a safety standown last year, the individual making the presentation used it as an example of task saturation/overload. The closest gravitas this guy had other than being a world-class HF dude, was a stint as a B-1 AC/IP. Given his lack of fighter background, I thought it would be interesting to see what you folks had to say.

Again, I would never criticize, especially in an area out of my depth. Just curious. I always make an attempt to learn whatever I can from other disciplines. There are gems of technique, concept and execution to be mined from Aviators outside my peer group. (Among other things.)

 

[Fox-Tree]

Since I cannot edit my post, please remove the respect comment at the end. Poor wording on my part and it was not meant to imply that any officer or enlisted person does not respect the other.

I think in the fighter community, there is a lack of shared interest/experience that may widen the gap. You guys go fly your single seat airplane and debrief when you get back. The enlisted guy is out there putting the jet to bed. In the airlift community, we fly together, we debrief together, and then hit the club together.

That enlisted kid working the flight line may want to be a pilot, yet does not understand the world in which you guys live. Maybe sharing a beer at the bar is not such a bad thing as it may give the opportunity to share some knowledge or pass along some advice in a more "comfortable" forum.

You know, I don't post here claiming to know the internal details of your unit. Yet, somehow you seem to "know" that mine makes a practice of segregating our crew chiefs/"enlisted kids" from our activities and avoids sharing knowledge, etc, etc. We have a great working/playing/drinking relationship with our bros in the enlisted ranks.

You made a blanket statement that said "MOST guard officers are former enlisted....." (okay, you didn't say "ALL" - but "most" is pretty close to all, isn't it?) That may be your experience but it's a stretch to spread that assumption to the whole guard just because that's the way it's happened in your world. Most fighter pilots in my unit are former AD. You’ll note that none of my statements started out “I think in the cargo community……” – that’s because I don’t know sh!t about what happens in your community or more specifically, your unit. From what you’ve posted here, it would appear the same holds true for you.

We hire from within, without and from AD. A fighter unit needs a mix. It is very difficult to come up with an accurate process to determine if a candidate will be a good fighter pilot. An AD guy proves himself in UPT, graduates in the top of his class and usually will be successful in his follow on training as a fighter pilot. By the time he can get out or palace-chase to us, he’s very experienced and has established a great rep (or we wouldn’t hire him). Hiring from within or off the street is another story. Grades, performance reports, interview results, private pilot license, etc. don’t create the same filter for the guys we want to hire and send to UPT. We’ve had some success in the past couple of years so maybe we’re getting better or just lucky. For the 6 years prior, we hired 6 and only 2 made it.

The choice to hire a crew-chief from within and send him to UPT is completely separate from the choice to hire a 2000 hour instructor pilot off active duty. It totally depends on the needs of the unit and what kind of slot is open. The two people in this example are not interchangeable and never will be. By the time the newbie we send to UPT achieves the level of proficiency and capability the AD pilot came to us with, the AD guy will either be the Wing CC or retired. There's no way a fighter unit would be able to maintain CMR status and a high level of proficiency if it hired most of it's pilots from within its own enlisted force or off the street. Those pilots are starting from scratch and will takes years and years to reach a level of proficiency similar to a 10 year veteran coming off AD. Apples and oranges - we need both.

BTW, Pkober – the pilots we hire off active duty have gone through enough filters that we don’t need to deal with “breaking some ones active dutyisms”. They’re usually more than ready to embrace the Guard and leave AD behind.

 

[pkober]

That's good. Sounds like you weed out the bad guys from AD coming over. We do the same. The last thing a Guard unit needs is some tool coming in and making demand on a unit and it's people.

As far as enlisted guys becoming officers. I bet most guys who get UPT slots in the Guard are prior enlisted. Not ALL, but most. That has been my experience. 90% of the UPT candidates in my AMS class (1994) were prior enlisted. Granted guys coming from AD are probably not prior enlisted. Of course a unit will always need qualified people and not only fighter units need a good mix. You can't get a C-130 IP off the street, he has to come from somewhere.

I think this thread is starting to become circular.

Peace, out

 

[JungleJett]

That's good. Sounds like you weed out the bad guys from AD coming over. We do the same. The last thing a Guard unit needs is some tool coming in and making demand on a unit and it's people.

As far as enlisted guys becoming officers. I bet most guys who get UPT slots in the Guard are prior enlisted. Not ALL, but most. That has been my experience. 90% of the UPT candidates in my AMS class (1994) were prior enlisted. Granted guys coming from AD are probably not prior enlisted. Of course a unit will always need qualified people and not only fighter units need a good mix. You can't get a C-130 IP off the street, he has to come from somewhere.

I think this thread is starting to become circular.

Peace, out

In the spirit of keeping this short....what Pober said.

(For the record, I never claimed to know anything about YOUR squadron.)