No Military for CAL?

[AlbieF15]

Skiddriver for King.

 

[pkober]

Contact USERRA.

By the way...define "mil leave abuse". Who decides what is or is not important enough work to justify being on orders? If a reservist activates for 30 days over the holiday so the overworked active duty guys get a break, is that somehow wrong? Why should the airline employees be more protected from working a holiday than an active duty service person?

Employers have the right to call military units requesting relief from taskings. They usually don't--because they know they'll come off as unpatriotic or not supportive. Instead--they individually pressure employees who are on leave. What does the reservist/guardsman say who is asked to pony up and work over the holidays so some over-worked active duty guys can have time off? "Sorry--bad time...they'll need to suck it up. But ask me again in January and perhaps they can go take some leave then?"

Employers need to quit badgering the guy or gal caught in the no-win middle of these fights and contact their USERRA omsbudsman and/or the employees military supervisors.

Every unit is different. Every story is different. Nailing someone because they had to perform duty when it was "inconvenient" for the airline without getting the full story is wrong. The guy who dropped a month may have done so to go to Red Flag or another similar training event that are hard to get every 2-3 years... That week that conflicted with a "bad trip" may have been so he could get his night squares done for the year--sometimes tough for part-timers when the unit only has 7-8 periods a year on a night schedule. For Viper guys---masters of many trades--the chance to do SEAD, CAS, or Maverick rides may be limited due to range availablity. These guys will go when they can get the training.

Turn on CNN. Count the stories about all the guys who hate us and want to kill us. Then rethink why we have the reserve forces. There are some good deals to being part of the team, but there is also a heck of a lot of work and responsiblity. I've said this before, but for most guys doing both jobs you soon find out you really just can't make everyone happy, and sometimes you just have to suck it up and get it done.

JungleJett,

Chief three brats says hi and wants you to call him so you can go out and grab a beer. That should give you nightmares.

Albie,

I agree that as part timers we are being pulled in many different directions. Im a "guard baby" and have been a airline pilot for most of my time in the guard. My holiday reference was about the guys who takes 3 days of mil leave over Christmas at the last minute. We've all seen it. They show up at the unit and sign the book and go home. That doesn't help any of us in the ANG/AFRC. I'm not talking about the guys doing an AEF over the holidays. I bet they rather be flying a airline trip that sitting in sh*tastan. I'm also not talking about the guys sitting alert. There are tons of guys doing legit duty over the holidays, it's just the few that play the system and screw the rest.

Agreed about the people who want to hurt us. Now a days you can't wait until the last minute to get profecient. I was activated on a Saturday and building my tent on a Thursday. That's why I make every effort to stay ahead of the curve at the Guard.

 

[JungleJett]

JungleJett,

Chief three brats says hi and wants you to call him so you can go out and grab a beer. That should give you nightmares.

As long as Three Brats doesnt catch you with your sunglasses on your head while in a chow hall in the middle of f'ing nowhere, you will avoid his wrath. I am a little surprised he is still alive. I thought he would go home and stroke out after going back to the humdrum life as a cop and not being able to bust people for some useless crap! At least I scored a coin from him. Give him a big kiss on his huge bald melon.

 

[pkober]

I just did an ORI with him. I've never seen web gear that tight.

 

[AlbieF15]

True story...

Key West NAS sometime last year. Boozing after hard DACT deployment against our Homestead Viper adversaries. Doing the all ranks beach club thing (read: crap on officers clubs). Sr Enlisted Dude walks up to a Major (active duty) bro of mine and says "SIR...can I PLEASE get you to REMOVE those sunglasses from your HEAD...SIR.." Said major does a quick cost/benefit computation and realizes nothing to be won, lots to be lost...so he complys.

Meanwhile--yours truely---one each ANG LTC in same uniform has a Baseball hat with Mr Bones (our mascot) proudly displayed and glasses with strap around my neck. He says nothing. Guys are table are going WTF? amongst themselves and wondering why didn't he roll in on me. That was the day they learned that some guys in the ANG are inbriefed into a black world cloaking device program, and often find said device very helpful when TDY.

(Side rant) By the way...I quit the O Clubs in 2002 when they discussed going to all-rank at our base. Both the officer and enlisted force need a place to unwind unmolested, and putting them together with a lot of booze at the end of a long week has never struck me as helping the morale of either camp. There are times and places to interact, and times and places to be separate. I realize the ANG has done a great job with all-rank clubs, but for some reason when the active duty tries it the results are fraternization cases for the jag and a lot of other trouble. (cease side rant)

 

[pkober]

That's because in the Guard most people were enlisted before they were officers and have been in that unit there entire career. Plus rank is only there due to a requirement to be in that rank for that job. It's all about getting the job done. Not rank and shined shoes. If a hard roller rank happy guy gets in to our unit it only takes one, maybe two, trips with our E's for him to be broken of that gay habit. They usually don't get hired to begin with.

 

[Fox-Tree]

That's because in the Guard most people were enlisted before they were officers and have been in that unit there entire career.......

???WTF???

:laugh: Not the pilots. Where's your info coming from. All prior enlisted? I don't think so. A much higher percentage of pilots (at least fighter pilots) per unit started out active duty (and definitely not prior enlisted).

 

[JungleJett]

???WTF???

:laugh: Not the pilots. Where's your info coming from. All prior enlisted? I don't think so. A much higher percentage of pilots (at least fighter pilots) per unit started out active duty (and definitely not prior enlisted).

Uhh....hmmm.....he never said "ALL".

A good fighter unit will look within when hiring those that have busted thier ass in hopes of a UPT slot. I know more than a few fighter pilots.

We have a ton of former enlisted folks in our rated officer ranks. In fact our unit prefers to hire from within. I would not say a majority is from the enlisted ranks but a pretty sizable portion. Honestly, I have found those that have come from the enlisted ranks make better officers...but that is just my opinion. By the way, our Wing Commander is former enlisted as was our last AG for Air.

As for the clubs being segregated, yeah........in the fighter community maybe. In the airlift community, since we work together and we usually play together and usually play nice. Some of my closest friends are officers. I understand and appreciate the importance of rank in a military organization but have also seen its dark side. (Former Army) Guys that walk around looking at their shoulders all the time are pretty much singled out as being tools and spend a lot of time on thier own...O' or E' Club.

It comes down to respect I guess. Thank God I was never AD.

 

[JungleJett]

Since I cannot edit my post, please remove the respect comment at the end. Poor wording on my part and it was not meant to imply that any officer or enlisted person does not respect the other.

I think in the fighter community, there is a lack of shared interest/experience that may widen the gap. You guys go fly your single seat airplane and debrief when you get back. The enlisted guy is out there putting the jet to bed. In the airlift community, we fly together, we debrief together, and then hit the club together.

That enlisted kid working the flight line may want to be a pilot, yet does not understand the world in which you guys live. Maybe sharing a beer at the bar is not such a bad thing as it may give the opportunity to share some knowledge or pass along some advice in a more "comfortable" forum.

 

[pkober]

???WTF???

:laugh: Not the pilots. Where's your info coming from. All prior enlisted? I don't think so. A much higher percentage of pilots (at least fighter pilots) per unit started out active duty (and definitely not prior enlisted).

My info. I don't know. Maybe being a Guard Baby all my military career. Maybe that's not enough. Having sat on UPT boards, maybe not enough.

90% of our UPT selectees are prior enlisted. Mostly from the back of the airplane. I know plenty of units, fighter also, that hire mostly from within their own enlisted ranks. They have a proven record going into the interview and that helps. That's why at most UPT class graduations the Guard guys have more than just the CNN and basic training ribbon.

Alot of units would rather hire new guys and send them thru UPT and have them be Guard guys from day one. It's easier than having to break some ones active dutyisms. There's always going to be guys from active duty in Guard units, since you seem to think I said ALL guard pilots are prior enlisted.

Hopefully this won't turn into Guard vs. AD.