No flight instructing

[Petrov]

Boris,

The simple fact is that insurance requirements will prevent you from flying jobs that build quality bulk time. You won't build you time fast enough flying jumpers or ferrying aircraft for sales. Besides, most of the jumper planes I've seen have NAPA fuel lines and oil filters. As much as you will dislike instructing, it's really the only way that you can build quality time FAST. This is a race, and every day that you sit on the ground is another day you are behind those you are competing with. Bite the bullet and get your CFI.
On a side note, logging PIC as safety pilot will not fly during an airline interview. Neither will time you logged as PIC that you spent under the hood. If you didn't sign for the aircraft, you were not the PIC. Airlines are looking for solid PIC time. Time in which you were the sole pilot responsible for the aircraft/crew.
Good luck with your career. No matter what you choose, it's going to be a long road.

I admit to being a total boob when it comes to aircraft mechanics and maintenance, but I dont see what is wrong with napa? Doesnt their stuff meet the specs?

 

[Stealthh21]

You are entitled to your opinion. Indeed, there are other ways to pay your dues and there are alternatives to flight instructing. However, since you have never done it, you are NOT qualified to belittle it.

I have done flight instruction (though not in Kansas) and I have done the flying everyday as part of a crew on a jet through the rain and weather with people counting on you thing. You would be surprised how little difference there really is. In my opinion, there is just as much good stuff in flight instruction. It can also involve flying everyday through rain and weather in twins with people counting on you.

In my opinion, I learned at least as much my first year of instructing than I did my first year in the right seat of a RJ. Yes, the crew 121 experience is valuable, however it is not the be-all end-all course to developing piloting skills.

I know that I still have a lot left to learn about flying. If you one day decide to become an instructor, you will see how much you have left to learn.

Ok first I never said I know everything about flying. But since you can't seem to leave it at that. I will just pull out some more playing cards. I have not belittled instructing at all. I think it’s a great thing to have, and a great way to build a great foundation to instruct as a career, or move to other parts of the industry. I would not have even posted in this thread if I hadn't seen a post saying that having makes you a better pilot, and you have to have it to pay your dues, and be a good pilot. I just said there are other ways, and not having it doesn’t make you any less of a pilot. Some people just can't do it you know?

"In my opinion, I learned at least as much my first year of instructing than I did my first year in the right seat of a RJ. Yes, the crew 121 experience is valuable, however it is not the be-all end-all course to developing piloting skills. "

Who ever said anything about that? What job in aviation is be-all, end-all? When did I ever say that? There is no way to stop learning, anywhere in your life not just aviation.

"You would be surprised how little difference there really is. In my opinion, there is just as much good stuff in flight instruction. It can also involve flying everyday through rain and weather in twins with people counting on you."

Oh I think there is a big difference. When you are hired to be a pilot your job is not to tell people what you can't do, it's to tell them what you can do. When you are working at an airline, or working for a charter company, time is money, people or cargo have to be somewhere at certain times, at certain places. And they are expecting you to be able to accomplish these things as fast as possible. Sorry, flight instructing, you are not under that pressure. And you can't tell me that trying to get all that you want to get done and having the Cessna back in time for the next lesson counts. If the weather is to low for touch and gos, you don't go. To many thunderstorms? you don't go. Ice? You don't go. When was the last time you sprayed type-1 deice fluid on your Katana????????? WHEN?? When was the last time you were put in the runup block because you had a wheels up time in 1 hour trying to get into KTEB in the rain and storms. When was the last time you had to tell your PAX that they are going to be late for their meeting because of all this stuff.

I can see that you have done the 121 thing and the CFI thing, so I know that you know all this stuff. And I recognize your experience, and respect your opinion. The reason why you think having the CFI is so important is because you have one. I think it is important, but I don’t think it’s a make or break you type thing to have.

"you are NOT qualified"

lol

I have a right to my opinion. So I will leave it at that. Again, CFIs are good people, and work VERY hard for good and bad places. Thank you. I wouldn't be here without them. Even though I am not one of them, doesn't make me less of a pilot.

Stealthh
I have nothing more to say about this issue.

 

[Hadhafang]

OK, now we are all just going back and forth about whether being a CFI makes you a good pilot or not. I think we need to look at Boris' initial post and ask him the question: "Why do you not see yourself as being a CFI?" If he honestly thinks that he will not be able to teach, then fine, find some other way to build time. However, how do you know you can't teach if you have never tried. Secondly, if he thinks that instructing is beneath him, well then he has issues. So I guess it all comes down to why he doesn't want to instruct, and I think that it applies to anyone.

Stealth, I appreciate your opinions and that you are keeping a level head. You are not an instructor and that is fine. I have said before that not every pilot should be an instructor. However, I do have to disagree with you on one issue, and that is your stance on "Being a CFI makes you a better pilot." You are right, it doesn't give you better flying skills or make you any safer or even give you any "real-world" weather flying. What it does give you is a better all around understanding of aviation. Ask any teacher (I come from a family of them) and they will tell you that the best way to understand a subject is to teach it. When I went through my flight training there were some topics that I just couldn't get a grasp on like some concepts of aerodynamics. When it came time for me to instruct new student pilots, I had to do extra studying to make sure that what I was teaching was correct. Having the responsibility of teaching a new pilot material that his life AND the life of all the passengers that he will ever fly is a tremendous responsibility. That should be motivation for all instructors to make sure that they are accurate and knowledgable about what they are teaching. That is why I think becoming a CFI is important. The extra motivation is there to study and to keep learning. If I didn't instruct and just flew banners or towed gliders, I don't know if I would have sudied as much or have learned as much about aviation, because that extra motivation would not be there. So maybe being a good CFI (by that I mean a CFI who takes there job seriously) does not make you a BETTER pilot, but it does make you a more KNOWLEDGABLE pilot.

 

[Stealthh21]

OK, now we are all just going back and forth about whether being a CFI makes you a good pilot or not. I think we need to look at Boris' initial post and ask him the question: "Why do you not see yourself as being a CFI?" If he honestly thinks that he will not be able to teach, then fine, find some other way to build time. However, how do you know you can't teach if you have never tried. Secondly, if he thinks that instructing is beneath him, well then he has issues. So I guess it all comes down to why he doesn't want to instruct, and I think that it applies to anyone.

Stealth, I appreciate your opinions and that you are keeping a level head. You are not an instructor and that is fine. I have said before that not every pilot should be an instructor. However, I do have to disagree with you on one issue, and that is your stance on "Being a CFI makes you a better pilot." You are right, it doesn't give you better flying skills or make you any safer or even give you any "real-world" weather flying. What it does give you is a better all around understanding of aviation. Ask any teacher (I come from a family of them) and they will tell you that the best way to understand a subject is to teach it. When I went through my flight training there were some topics that I just couldn't get a grasp on like some concepts of aerodynamics. When it came time for me to instruct new student pilots, I had to do extra studying to make sure that what I was teaching was correct. Having the responsibility of teaching a new pilot material that his life AND the life of all the passengers that he will ever fly is a tremendous responsibility. That should be motivation for all instructors to make sure that they are accurate and knowledgable about what they are teaching. That is why I think becoming a CFI is important. The extra motivation is there to study and to keep learning. If I didn't instruct and just flew banners or towed gliders, I don't know if I would have sudied as much or have learned as much about aviation, because that extra motivation would not be there. So maybe being a good CFI (by that I mean a CFI who takes there job seriously) does not make you a BETTER pilot, but it does make you a more KNOWLEDGABLE pilot.

Thank you.

Yyou hit the nail on the head. I never said anyone was wrong exactly. I just think I might be right too. I don't deny anything you have said. There is just more then one way to become a better pilot!!

Thanks for the good post!

Stealthh

 

[Catbert]

Before I started instucting, I had this idea that I would receive divine knowledge during my first few hundred hours of instruction given.

After a couple of years of instructing, I've learned:

A) Most people should not be allowed near an airplane.
B) The top ten things not to do in an airplane.

All in all, I think I reached a learning plateau a couple hundred hours hours into the instructing business. Useful? Yes. The end all and be all of learning? Hardly. Will some captain clean my clock my first few months in a jet? Most probably. But another thousand hours instruction given probably aint gonna fix that.

 

[Boris_159]

I think stealthh pretty much summed it up. As for me, I have had experience teaching before with music. I lack the patience involved when someone can't quite understand a concept that I consider "easy". Although I was 17 when I taught music, I was worried that it may still be a part of my personality.

As of right now I am strongly considering the military. Thank you to everyone who offered their advice in this thread, you have been really helpful. I may end up instructing after all and going OTS after comleting my bachelors.

 

[RichardRambone]

I ferry airplanes and though it doesn't build time as fast as a typical CFI its a GREAT way to build em. Try flying more than 20 different types of aircraft with little to no knowledge of them personally and flying them from CA to KS with thunderstorms between them. As my boss says, "I've flown with 1000 hour CFI's that scared the sh!t out of me." That being said, I'm pursuing my CFII to add to my knowledge and show my dedication to my profession by continually pursuing the next goal. Its a sign of a professional. Sure you don't need a CFI and I can vouch for it but why would you limit your opportunities? Theres way more CFI jobs than banner towing/ferrying jobs. Plus, what if you do finally get a line job somewhere and decide later that you'd like to stay at home with the family more so you decide to do the flight instructing for your company? Just my opinion but the more options you give yourself, the more opportunities for your happiness. Thank you now I'll relinquish the soapbox to my more esteemed colleages.

 

[FlyingFisherman]

I suggest you head straight to the local FBO and get a job working line service. Be the hardest working, nicest, most personable guy on the field, and opportunities will appear before your very eyes.

Ding!

 

[Sticky]

don't forget the aerial survey industry! There are a few places that hire people with a comm. ticket and that start in 172s. Pay is usually about 24K a year.

I also know guys that pull in about 51K flying pistion twins for survey companies . I know some others who make 40K-61K flying 172s and 180s in the fishing business. They only work the fishing season which is about 6 months long.

 

[ShamH85]

new thread

 

[white knuckle]

Students

For the sake of the students you would be "instructing", if you don't desire to instruct, please don't.

 

[flyingnome]

For the sake of the students you would be "instructing", if you don't desire to instruct, please don't.

best comment yet, the last CFI at the FBO I am currently working at was a real winner... and it showed through the many students that I picked up from him. There is a very large difference from people who put a little something into the job and those who just cram for hours.

 

[captdorn81]

I have a belly button if that counts!lol

 

[Capt. JD]

Only way...

I am sorry but is flight instructing the only way to pay dues? Listening to most of you dumb fvcks it sounds like it is...

So I guess my...
PA-18 Banner Towing (June-Aug 2001)
C-172 Traffic Watch (July-Aug 2001)
C-172 / C-182 Aerial Mapping (Sept 2002 - June 2004)
C-210 FAR 135 IFR-PIC freight (Sept 2004 - Feb 2005)
C-310R FAR 135 IFR-PIC pax/freight (June 2005 - Present)

I guess I never paid any dues because I didn't want to get my CFI either. Instructing makes you book smart... Try Single Pilot Ops, will make you a better pilot, stick & rudder wise!

 

[Hadhafang]

It is just going to go back and forth! CFI's are going to get defensive about instructing, and other pilots are going to get defensive about their decision to not instruct. There are benefits and drawbacks to BOTH paths. In this case, no one is ultimately right. So Capt. JD, let's not resort to name calling. If you have to post, try to post the reasons why you think that you made the right choice. Tell us about the benefits. I'm sure low time pilots who are seeking to build their time would appreciate it alot more than hearing someone rip on people who are CFI's. This goes for CFI's as well. We are pilots, let's keep it professional.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

One of the most valuable things I learned while flight instructing was how to "read" people through subtle clues in the cockpit. You learn how to tell what someone is thinking about or what they aren't thinking about but should be.

These skills come in very handy in a multi pilot airplane.

I personally believe that that best training for becoming a captain of a multi pilot airplane is to instruct. The planes are different, the operations are different, and a captain doesn't need to teach like an instructor, but still the dynamics are very similiar.

The problem with skipping this step and going straight to an FO position (which is also an essential part of the learning process), is that you haven't had an opportunity to be "the buck stops here" decision maker responsible not only for an aircraft, but for another person as well.

Single pilot operations will certainly give you the chance to make lots of final decisions and that is very worthwhile too. But there is nothing like being responsible to another person to add gravity to those decisions.

 

[Skyboy722]

,

The simple fact is that insurance requirements will prevent you from flying jobs that build quality bulk time. You won't build you time fast enough flying jumpers or ferrying aircraft for sales. Besides, most of the jumper planes I've seen have NAPA fuel lines and oil filters. As much as you will dislike instructing, it's really the only way that you can build quality time FAST. quote]

NOT True!! When I was flying jumpers, I was building time faster than all of my CFI buddies COMBINED. I routinely flew from sunrise to well after dark, shutting down only long enough to refuel. Lunch was eaten in the climb. I was logging PIC TURBINE. What is wrong with that, and is that not "quality time"? Be careful with the "only way" statements, especially in this business. There's lots of ways to get there...

Oh, and you're probably right about the jump planes, but that's good engine-out practice!

 

[G100driver]

BTW CFIing will make you a better pilot. You have to pay your dues someplace, no way to avoid it.

Gotta agree with pilotyip on this one. I did not realize how little I knew until I started to teach. It also gives you confidence in situations later in your flying career.

After-all, CFI-ing is a good place to hang your hat while working on your B.A.!!! Sorry, yip, I could not resist!

 

[pilotyip]

G100 Nothing to be sorry about, fits in exactly with my train of thought, build flight time in a full time job while working on your BA/BS on the the side.

 

[NW_Pilot]

I have not worked in Alaska but have talked with several employers up there. They considered my time in the Pacific NW and BC as valuable for insurance requirements. I also got the impression from them that many, if not most, flight schools in Alaska do not require Alaska flight time. There are also some 135 operators that do not require Alaska time, so I am sure someone who meets the 135 requirements could find work there with a little effort.

Wow that's new to me Most all my time is in the Pacific NW Ie: Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Western Montana