No Feb. 15th Furloughs at XJ

[Butters]

my sore point is that i have talked to two pilots in minneapolis. one captain and one FO both said...."imagine the amount of airplanes we would get if we undercut even mesa?"

Oh, good god... I hope you are kidding.

If this is true, these people need to be shot. That is like saying, "Imagine all the dick we could get if we charged only $10 per b.j."

Welcome, everyone, to the NEXTEL Race to the Bottom Championship!

 

[sf3boy]

My guess is that those 66% that voted for the growth contract will also go along with concessions. Management knows that this pilot group does not have the stomach to walk out, no matter how bad it gets. We tipped our hand in Jan. '04.

Unfortunately for all of us, NWA/XJ are wondering why every regional is paying their captains on the 2-3 year scale and Mesaba averages out just over 10 years. Huge cost savings if Mesaba is replaced by a start up or even a less senior regional.

 

[IamGumbyDammit]

My guess is that those 66% that voted for the growth contract will also go along with concessions. Management knows that this pilot group does not have the stomach to walk out, no matter how bad it gets. We tipped our hand in Jan. '04.

You want everybody to respect the way you voted, but you can't respect the way they voted.

" I want it, and I want it now, Daddy"! Veruca Salt

 

[temcgrew]

The big rumor at Trans States is that our crew sched. supervisor just got back from training with youre sched. dep. so she could come back and train the G0Jet crew sched. dep. (of course, TSA and G0jet is still seperate companies) I'm not sure how they will get the crew's or the A/C for any of XJ's flying, do you guys fly the CRJ's?

 

[sf3boy]

You want everybody to respect the way you voted, but you can't respect the way they voted.

" I want it, and I want it now, Daddy"! Veruca Salt

Not quite. I totally understand that people vote the way that they need to for their own personal reasons. Nothing wrong with that at all. I did just that, myself.

I just don't want to hear any of those 66% complain when they are flying the exact same a/c, city pairs, pax for 15-20 percent less pay along with the slashed work rules.

No cathcy anecdotal quote from me.

 

[IHateMgmt]

I had a long break this morning so I did some checking on specifics... After the 15th, at DTW there will be 3 people on a reserve line of the 20 originally scheduled for it. At MEM its 4 of 12 and MSP its 10 of 14.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

was that Saab, Avro or both?

 

[YourPilotFriend]

I think by the 15th of Feb you will know what direction XJ and NWA is heading. You may even find out by the end of this week.

 

[Avro dude]

YPF you have some info. Are they getting close to a deal.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah, we will find out where we are going when NWA settles their issues. i think the main thing is the 70 seat issue, which every other mainline carrier pilot group has given away. My concern is not only for myself, but also the state of the industry in which i find myself in. I do not want to see a newco, or even Mesaba become a Newco, or even Mesaba to become a bottom feeder and accept lower rates. I am not sure what Comair is doing to their pilot group, but i have heard through a friend of mine that around a 5 year FO will be making somewhere in the 34-35 an hour range. Is that true?

Oh and by the way, yes my previous statement about two that i have spoken to about pay cuts and people having shiny new jet syndrome is true. I only hope those two were just thinking outloud......and not seriously wanting to take it. I hope our union stands strong like they did when the CRJ negotiantions were going on. Have my brother and sisters at XJ let their union rep know your feelings on this issue? get involved is what our union leadership tell us, i hope we stand strong, but yet i hope we somehow avoid becoming a 49 Saab fleet.

Rumors....what are the NWA negotiations about the Avros? the 70 seat issues? I hear Newco is dead?

 

[captpetefam]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=70739&highlight=No+Newco

 

[YourPilotFriend]

YPF you have some info. Are they getting close to a deal.

Both deals were thrown out, N Star and NewCo; looks like we are going to meet somewhere in the middle. Either way, they will be proping up one of the regional partners to take over mainline flying and compete against the likes of mesa, skywest, and republic. If I worked for 9E, i'd be very worried, due to its poor operational history, it may not be able to secure the financing or the staffing required. On the other hand NWA has XJ right where it wants it.

 

[Yudso]

YPF,

How do you see this whole thing turning out? What do you want the future of your airline to be? Any mainline pilot worth a lick should be fighting this whole thing tooth and nail.

 

[Yudso]

Deleted

 

[wmudriver]

Whoa...thats messed up. There are people senior to us that have are still slated for the FEB 15th chopping block. Did you trade dates?

Those lameass' in planning can't even get our furlough dates right

Sidenote: Anyone else notice that MAIR stock has been jumping lately, going up 2-8% per day for a while now (not that it matters)

 

[Yudso]

Deleted

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Well as several of us now know threre will indeed be many more XJ'ers out of work on Feb 15

 

[PCL_128]

If I worked for 9E, i'd be very worried, due to its poor operational history

You really don't have a clue what you're talking about, do you? Pinnacle has the most reliable, most efficient fleet of CRJ aircraft in the world. That comes straight from Bombardier, not from our management. We have the occasional hickup, like the Christmas debacle in '04, but that is more than made up for with our day-to-day performance. Any other regional that NWA would contract with would cost them more, and deliver less, than Pinnacle has for the past few years. Study up before you make some more absurd assertions.

 

[OttoPilot]

Pinnacle has the most reliable, most efficient fleet of CRJ aircraft in the world. That comes straight from Bombardier, not from our management.

I think they were referring to the aircraft.

 

[PCL_128]

I think they were referring to the aircraft.

No, they were comparing us to every other CRJ-200 operator. Bombardier receives dispatch reliability figures and maintenance information from all CRJ operators. Pinnacle ranks number one in reliability and has the lowest maintenance costs. It has been that way since we started operating the airplane.

 

[Dufus1]

Like Otto said, they were refering to the aircraft as you stated they get mx info. Why would they get any other info?

 

[Lear70]

Bombardier gets D-zero, D-15, A-zero, A-15 numbers, all from ACARS and our completion factor and maintenance costs from the company.

Additionally, check your quarterly or weekly pubs from any public news source that tracks this info, Pinnacle consistently ranks in the top 5 for on-time and completion performance with the lowest CASM in the industry, bar none. Period.

The only thing working against us is our management's greed and how far other companies are willing to cut their bottom line to get a contract (Mesa, etc). We can beat ANY other regional in terms of performance and profitability, IF the competition doesn't price their bid UNDER their COST TO PRODUCE IT (sound familiar? the majors have been doing this for years).

Gotta agree with PCL-128 on this one; the numbers are out there and they don't lie.

 

[fly4ever]

Too bad Bombardier isn't provided with the number of cancellations due to lack of crews, crew out of position, aircraft out of position, dispatchers quitting, schedulers quitting, etc., that have happened since you started operating the airplane. Obviously not the crew's fault but these numbers are not reported to Bombardier and are not factored into the "performance" numbers. Performance at an airline is artificially enhanced or degraded to suit the operator's or the manufacturer's needs.

 

[DetoXJ]

Is there a Metrix for "Hulls Lost"? I'm sure 9E would rank rather high in that category. How about screwed up taxi clearances?

 

[xjhawk]

hey pcl 128, pull your head out of the hole its in............stop believing the hype......are you pinnicle pete? just wondering.....i think when they were talking about Pinnicle, i think they were refering to the number of hull losses, safety occurances and FAA violations. I know there are a lot of great poeple at pinnicle, but the fact is that there was a time, or still is, that the FAA and the insurance companies would not allow anymore aircraft there until the operations were cleared up! i am just trying to open your eyes up......i like a lot of you guys over there.....so do not take it personal.

 

[kmox29]

PCL 128 and Lear70,

Do you think performance matters to NWA? I think both of you know why Express I became Pinnacle and received 100+ CRJ's. It's about $ and whipsawing. Plus, your IPO made a nice little contribution to NWA pension stock.

We can beat ANY other regional in terms of performance and profitability

So can Mesaba. Difference being we realize that performance and profitablity are meaningless with regards to growth.

 

[PCL_128]

Too bad Bombardier isn't provided with the number of cancellations due to lack of crews, crew out of position, aircraft out of position, dispatchers quitting, schedulers quitting, etc., that have happened since you started operating the airplane. Obviously not the crew's fault but these numbers are not reported to Bombardier and are not factored into the "performance" numbers. Performance at an airline is artificially enhanced or degraded to suit the operator's or the manufacturer's needs.

Apparently you don't understand what dispatch reliability and completion factor are. Any cancellation for any reason is factored into the completion factor number, and Bombardier gets that number and uses it to calculate their numbers for reliability and efficiency. Again, we have the best numbers in all regards. No thanks to the company, but many thanks to the hard-working crewmembers who bust their butts to get these flights out in spite of pathetic management.

 

[PCL_128]

Is there a Metrix for "Hulls Lost"? I'm sure 9E would rank rather high in that category. How about screwed up taxi clearances?

Real classy there DetoXJ. I'm sure you're a blast to fly with.

 

[XJdriver]

I decided to check to see how cheap 9E really is. Here is the info I got from the DOT.

As you see it is the worst (highest cost per seat mile) on the list and is going down hill over time.

http://www.bts.gov/press_releases/2005/bts058_05/html/bts058_05.html

Sorry I couldnt get the tables to hold their format.

The carriers with the highest unit costs were network airlines Northwest and US Airways (Table 10) and regional carrier Pinnacle (Table 12). The carriers with the lowest unit costs were low-cost carriers JetBlue, Southwest and AirTran Airways (Table 11).

Table 12: Airline Domestic Unit Costs (Cents per Mile)

Regionals
Ranked by 3rd Quarter 2005 Domestic Unit Costs
(Domestic Operating Expenses per Available Seat Mile in cents)

3Q 2005 RankRegional Carriers 3rd Quarter 2005
1 Pinnacle 16.2
2 Comair 14.7
3 American Eagle 14.6
4 SkyWest 13.7
5 Atlantic Southeast 13.3
6 ExpressJet 11.7
7 Mesa 10.7

Source: Bureau of Transportation Statistics; Form 41; Schedule P1.2. T100; T2 Data.

 

[PCL_128]

hey pcl 128, pull your head out of the hole its in............stop believing the hype......are you pinnicle pete?

Pinnacle Pete? Sorry, not me. Not even close. Pete is up in MSP making the lives of all the pilots up there miserable.

just wondering.....i think when they were talking about Pinnicle, i think they were refering to the number of hull losses, safety occurances and FAA violations. I know there are a lot of great poeple at pinnicle, but the fact is that there was a time, or still is, that the FAA and the insurance companies would not allow anymore aircraft there until the operations were cleared up! i am just trying to open your eyes up......i like a lot of you guys over there.....so do not take it personal.

The FAA is certainly keeping a close eye on things, but they haven't stopped us from getting airplanes, and neither have the insurance companies. The only thing stopping us from getting more planes is the NWA whipsaw. We'll get more planes whenever NWA management wants us to, and the same goes for Mesaba. As kmox29 said, it's all about whatever makes the NWA execs the most money. If giving planes to PCL makes them the most, then that's where they'll go. The same goes for Mesaba. My posts were merely in response to YourPilotFriend saying that Pinnacle's performance was subpar. That's incorrect, and I corrected him. That doesn't mean that I think we'll get the planes over Mesaba merely because our completion factor is good, I just wanted to corrrect the misinformation that YPF likes to spread so freely.