No comment on ASA PBS LOA yet?

[JoeMerchant]

Yeah he might put more work at a company that costs more. He might not mind losing money because he is a good guy. He might not mind upsetting Skywest to the point that they vote in a union. Not what I would do if I was CEO but you never know.

Aircombat,

There are costs associated with dismantling ASA also...IMO, all we have to do is remain close, cut costs where we can, and provide the highest quality product we can. I'm with you on the single list, but the fact of the matter is that is something for long term planning and we can't get it now. I supported it back in 2000 with Delta, and I thought we should have made it a higher priority during the last contract negotiations....Those windows have closed, and we have to wait for another window to open.

In the meantime, if you believe what you typed above, it would behoove you to support this PBS LOA which will buy us some more time to develope a more long term scope solution.....Voting this down will accelerate your fears.

 

[JoeMerchant]

It’s funny how you remember what they are capable of yet think that if we are good little minions this time everything good will come our way. It’s like the battered wife syndrome. Onelist is changing the game it takes two to play.

You are missing the point aircombat. I remember what they are capable of doing when we don't have a single list AND we don't work with them...That is what happened during the contract negotiations. We fought and Jerry transferred assets.

The same thing will continue to happen if we continue to do the same thing, which is what YOU are advocating. I'm with you on the single list, but it isn't going to happen overnight and probably not for many years if ever at this point.

It is you that seems to forget what happened when we tried the "fight" without the single list...Until we get a single list, we need to work with him...

 

[PCL_128]

I would love to trust you fully. The simple fact is that it would not be wise to do so on this subject. Alpa has a clear reason why they wouldn’t want to pursue this.

I'm not even one of your reps. I'm just somebody at another airline with years of experience doing union work. Since I'm not one of your reps, what could my ulterior motive possibly be? I'm just trying to educate you so you don't look so ignorant here.

Scope sounds like “Negotiating for any group outside of this designated bargaining unit” yet that has been listed as a mandatory subject.

Again, scope is a PERMISSIVE subject of bargaining. It is not mandatory.

Like I said I would like to be able to trust alpa on this issue however I think the only non bias source on this subject would be the NMB members responsible for us. If you have information on how I can contact them I would appreciate that.

Is that a joke? Do you really believe the three members of the National Mediation Board, appointed by the President of the United States, are going to take phone calls from random line pilots? Are you really this dense?

If all we can do is delay negotiations over this then that’s what we should do. Giving them PBS now would make it nearly impossible.

Ratifying this LOA will give you far more leverage in negotiations when you get to Section 6. You'll be able to build upon the improvements in this PBS LOA, and you'll look like the good guy to the NMB. If you pass up this LOA, then you're going to learn the hard way how this process really works.

 

[aircombat]

Is that a joke? Do you really believe the three members of the National Mediation Board, appointed by the President of the United States, are going to take phone calls from random line pilots? Are you really this dense?

No joke. I was just trying to see how much you are trying to guard information. The union should try to educate all of its members but it doesn’t feel like that. Most of what I get is intimidation. I already wrote to the NMB and will hopefully hear back early next week. I will post what I hear back regardless of the results. I urge everyone interested to do the same.
CALL:
Information Hot Line: 202-692-5050
Freedom of Information Act: 202-692-5040

EMAIL:
[email protected]

WRITE:
Daniel Rainey
Director, ADR Services
NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
1301 K Street NW, Suite 250 East
Washington, DC 20005-7011

 

[aircombat]

Aircombat,

There are costs associated with dismantling ASA also...IMO, all we have to do is remain close, cut costs where we can, and provide the highest quality product we can. I'm with you on the single list, but the fact of the matter is that is something for long term planning and we can't get it now. I supported it back in 2000 with Delta, and I thought we should have made it a higher priority during the last contract negotiations....Those windows have closed, and we have to wait for another window to open.

In the meantime, if you believe what you typed above, it would behoove you to support this PBS LOA which will buy us some more time to develope a more long term scope solution.....Voting this down will accelerate your fears.

Nobody is talking about “dismantling”. More like “dissolving”. There is little cost involved in letting us slowly shrink through attrition and the limits of the no furlough clause. Assets will be slowly transferred to Skywest. We are just talking about were future flying will be put.

I know that you are scared about what will happen in talks but if we can stay strong and see it through to the end, it would not matter. Like I said they can’t do much worse then they already have because of the no furlough clause.

This submissive stance that you advocate will end badly and we don’t need the union to do that. I could be making 2% more. At least then we would have a chance at growth after the huge pay cuts necessary to get us cheaper than Skywest were imposed on us. Jerry isn’t going to give us growth because we are nice people and he is a nice guy.

 

[OCP]

Aircombat you are sounding more and more crazy as this thread goes on. You won't listen to two people who have actually delt with section 6 and the NMB. One person from your own airline and another who has absolutly no vested intrest in any way we vote. Now you want to write the NMB for what? We are not even in section 6 yet! Let alone what you think you are doing can't legally happn.

 

[PCL_128]

I already wrote to the NMB and will hopefully hear back early next week. I will post what I hear back regardless of the results. I urge everyone interested to do the same.

Now I'm beginning to think you're just a troll. Nobody could be gullible enough to believe that an NMB board member is actually going to respond to their inquiries. Some secretary will email you back a canned response, just like your Congressman's office does.

WRITE:
Daniel Rainey
Director, ADR Services
NATIONAL MEDIATION BOARD
1301 K Street NW, Suite 250 East
Washington, DC 20005-7011

Take a look at Mr. Rainey's title. Do you know what "ADR" stands for and means? ADR is Alternative Dispute Resolution, which has nothing to do with collective bargaining and Section 6. ADR deals with grievance mediation.

 

[aircombat]

Aircombat you are sounding more and more crazy as this thread goes on. You won't listen to two people who have actually delt with section 6 and the NMB. One person from your own airline and another who has absolutly no vested intrest in any way we vote. Now you want to write the NMB for what? We are not even in section 6 yet! Let alone what you think you are doing can't legally happn.

I’m writing the NMB to find out if it’s legal or not. If they can’t answer the question hopefully they will be able to point me in the right direction. So far I only found one reference that says scope is mandatory and none that say it's permissive. If you guys have any other references other than hearsay from the union then I would appreciate it.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Now I'm beginning to think you're just a troll. Nobody could be gullible enough to believe that an NMB board member is actually going to respond to their inquiries. Some secretary will email you back a canned response, just like your Congressman's office does.

I have to agree...There's no way someone actually believes what aircombat believes...I'm done....

 

[Jack-O-Lantern]

This guy has the idiot meter pegged off scale high!