no college degree & SWA

[BRA]

Another one of those "impossible" jobs I hear about from time to time. I am not knocking you, just jealous, haha. Even if that PIC doesn't count...it's still a bitchen job, and i'm sure you'll have no problem getting a regional job at least. I swear i do everything the hardest way possible. (3200 total time and still in a beech 1900, people with half my time on jets) My company, (colgan) has been taking people this year with 1500-2000 total time that were working as CFI's. As you said, consider yourself lucky! ANd I do consider myself lucky too. (121 PIC time, I guess that time doesn't just grow on trees)

 

[turn&pull]

--SkyBoy1981

My initial aviation experience was very similar to yours. Flying a Citation typed, left seat with low time and a senior pilot in the right seat.

The first time I interviewed at SWA I got turned down and I believe my Marginal TPIC time was part, if not the whole reason. The interviewer that reviewed my logbooks really questioned me hard about that PIC time. They won't get into an argument as to whether it was legit or not. They have the option to hire or not to hire and I guarantee you that if they have any doubt as to the quality of that PIC time, they will not hire you.

An Example: As a check-airman at a regional airline I fly as the F/O for new Captains for their first 25 hours on line. Even though the Captain is typed, flying left seat, with lots of previous Captain time on other A/cs, he is STILL SIC until I sign him off.

At the airlines whoever is ultimately responsible for the A/C signs the dispatch release, load manifest and also signs the mx logbook. Whoever signs this accepts ulitimate responsiblility for that flight. SWA is looking for experienced Captains that are out there making Captain decisions based on the fact that they are ultimately responsible.

When you interview at a major airline you are going up against the most qualified individuals in the business. Don't work really hard to get an interview and then mess up your chances by having a bunch of MARGINAL TPIC time.

My advice: Get a job as quickly as possible where you will be able to log quality TPIC time where ever that is. With your experience, regionals will pic you up in a heartbeat and possibly get you a relatively quick upgrade. But corporate is good too as long as you are ultimately responsible.

Best of Luck
TP

 

[NEDude]

I have about 150 Hours of "PIC" time in a PC-12. Not going to get into specifics, but one could make a legitimate case either way as to it being true PIC time. With just over 800 hours of legit turbine PIC time (ie. signing the release at a 121 company, left seat, typed, etc.) it gets very tempting to throw that 150 hours in as well. But I'll play it safe and wait until I have 1000 hours of unquestionable turbine PIC time. Don't want to get to the interview and have it messed up by something as minor as that. But man, I do want to get the paper trail started over at SWA.


Just three more months....just three more months....

 

[Tripower455]

I have about 150 Hours of "PIC" time in a PC-12. Not going to get into specifics, but one could make a legitimate case either way as to it being true PIC time. With just over 800 hours of legit turbine PIC time (ie. signing the release at a 121 company, left seat, typed, etc.) it gets very tempting to throw that 150 hours in as well. But I'll play it safe and wait until I have 1000 hours of unquestionable turbine PIC time. Don't want to get to the interview and have it messed up by something as minor as that. But man, I do want to get the paper trail started over at SWA.

Is the PC-12 a turboprop? If you flew it by yourself, as PIC, it is PIC turbine time. I flew a Cheyenne Part 91 for a lawyer for about 250 hours early in my career, was PIC for all of it (ie: no one else required to sit next to me for insurance or any other reasons), and always considered that PIC turbine time. I don;t even think it came up in the interview at SWA, but I had about 5000 hrs PIC turbine, all of it except that Cheyenne time was 135 or 121.

Am I missing something?

 

[NEDude]

Yes, the PC-12 is a turboprop. The long and short of it is that I did not sign for the aircraft. I logged PIC for the time I flew it as "sole manipulator of the controls" as per FAR 61.51.

There is a bit of a conflict between logging PIC time as defined in FAR 61.51, and acting as PIC as defined in FAR 1. SWA seems to take the FAR part 1 approach.

Basically the way I look at it is if there is a conflict between part 1 and 61, then don't count it. If it is convered under both regs, you are fine. So I am only counting that time which is covered under both.

 

[Tripower455]

Yes, the PC-12 is a turboprop. The long and short of it is that I did not sign for the aircraft. I logged PIC for the time I flew it as "sole manipulator of the controls" as per FAR 61.51.

There is a bit of a conflict between logging PIC time as defined in FAR 61.51, and acting as PIC as defined in FAR 1. SWA seems to take the FAR part 1 approach.

Basically the way I look at it is if there is a conflict between part 1 and 61, then don't count it. If it is convered under both regs, you are fine. So I am only counting that time which is covered under both.

I agree with you on the way you are considering it..... SWA does go by FAR Part 1 in this case.......

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Thanks for the responses guys. Turn&Pull, I believe the advice you have given me is the best bet as well...so thats what I'm going to shoot for. I appreciate the help.

 

[Les Paul]

Its rather pathetic that as Professional Pilots we have to ask if you can be hired without education. (Sorry.... but High School Graduate is NOT and should not be considered education by our peers at our supposed level of achievement).

The fact that Southwest hires someone with out an education is unbelieveable.

Les Paul

 

[SkyBoy1981]

The fact that Southwest hires someone with out an education is unbelieveable.

Yeah, and look at the effect of such practices too. They actually end up with an airline thats making profits, has happy employees, and an almost perfect safety record. What were they thinking?? You know, I'm not an airline pilot yet, but I have flown on many SWA flights. In my opinion they have one of the finest group of pilots in the industry and they have my utmost respect, college education or not. I doubt that the SWA pilots on the board will even waste their time on such a comment, but since I'm not one yet...thats my view.

 

[RVR300]

SW colors outside the box. They look at the whole person not just the data on their resume. One person's professional experience might outweigh the lack of a degree. Other factors are when did they start flying? Chances are if they don't have a degree they're probably a few years younger than the guy who does, and has several years of flying under his belt over the other guy as well.

Look beyond the obvious boys. Les Paul may believe what he's saying, but it seems a rather uninformed sort of opinion.

 

[canyonblue]

(Sorry.... but High School Graduate is NOT and should not be considered education by our peers at our supposed level of achievement).

Les Paul

We could demand a 4 year degree, but that would have also excluded such fine aviators as Orville and Wilbur Wright, Chuck Yeager and Charles Lindbergh to name a few, who knew a little something about flying airplanes. But then again a "High School Graduate is NOT, and should not, be considered education by our peers at our supposed level of achievement."

 

[jobear]

Its rather pathetic that as Professional Pilots we have to ask if you can be hired without education. (Sorry.... but High School Graduate is NOT and should not be considered education by our peers at our supposed level of achievement).

The fact that Southwest hires someone with out an education is unbelieveable.

Les Paul

Les,
Yes that 4 year degree sure came in handy while wiping the frost off the Beechs windows in the UP in the dead of winter.

Jobear

 

[Tripower455]

The fact that Southwest hires someone with out an education is unbelieveable.

Les Paul

Define "education"..........

Just because someone that sat through a certain number of classes to meet a certain criteria to get a certain degree, does not necessarily mean that they are "educated". It's a friggin piece of paper, which does not determine a person's ability to fly an aircraft

Am I "educated" , if, after completing 2 years of college (most of which was mind numbingly boring), I chose to take a job flying multi engine aircraft with very low total time? Would I have been smarter getting the 4 year degree instead?

The 4 year degree is a ridiculous requirement for a pilot position. A fat logbook with lots of good experience should be a more important requirement.....

I am glad that we don't require it.... If we did, we would have passed on a few real good folks/pilots (not including myself, of course )!


Heck, my dad had a 30 year career with Pan Am and Delta, and only has a HS education.....

 

[SDF2BUF2MCO]

I'm in operations and have a Bachelor's and a Master's don't use either one of them. However, both were from Kentucky which some consider just a step below high school level. While the college ticket is the way the game is played now, I question the actual nutritional value. Oh well, keeps the education bureaucrats off the streets gainfully employed.
If someone needs a degree you're welcome to one of mine!

 

[viking737]

Was Hoot Gibson the Shuttle commander on the John Glenn
mission?
I thought the commander on that mission was at AA?

 

[Tripower455]

Was Hoot Gibson the Shuttle commander on the John Glenn
mission?
I thought the commander on that mission was at AA?

I don't think that Hoot was the Commander of that mission.

Hoot was hired at SWA 11/96, and I'm pretty sure he didn't fly any shuttle missions after that..... The Glenn mission was in the fall of '98, iirc.....

 

[RVR300]

Hoot docked with Mir

 

[pilotyip]

Nicely said tripower 455

It is nice to hear from real pilots who made it without a four year degee. The degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane and more and more this is being supported by people like you who have a fantastic career. For all you pilot want to bes read this. If you want to be a pilot fly airplanes. I bet you have an Olds, about 1969? am I close?

 

[Tripower455]

It is nice to hear from real pilots who made it without a four year degee. The degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane and more and more this is being supported by people like you who have a fantastic career. For all you pilot want to bes read this. If you want to be a pilot fly airplanes.

Thanks for the compiment... I agree, to an extent about flying airplanes. I got lucky though. My advice to anyone that asks is to stay in school though, because you never know..........

I bet you have an Olds, about 1969? am I close?

Pretty close...... Pontiac! '66 GTO Convert with a modified '74 455 in it.....

 

[macfly]

While I agree that a college degree does not provide any insight as to ones ability to fly an airplane, its does however show that one can take $hit for 4 years, which from alot of you guys, seems to be a requirement for the regionals.


I have a old bud that flys for Airtran that does not have one day of college, but he had lots of jet time.