NO Chemical weapons found...YET!

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I just read the thread about chemical weapons were found. They weren't, which the last post about the "Jerusalem Post" article explains.

HOWEVER, I have seen much more powerful evidence that Iraq DOES, in fact, have chemical munitions, and has plans to use them.

I have seen pictures of captured Iraqi POWs WITH GASMASKS. Now, we don't use chemical weapons, and the UK doesn't, so why would Iraqi troops NEED gasmasks? Obviously, they need them to protect themselves when/if the Iraqi military decides to use them against coalition troops.

Yesterday, I also heard a number of reports related to chemical weapons:

We have been in constant contact with various Iraqis high up in the military command structure. We are trying to get them to give up, and, reportedly, we have received promises from some of them that, while they won't give up, they have promised NOT to used chemical weapons, as they know they will be tried as war criminals if they use chemical weapons against the coalition.

Obviously, if they didnt' have chemical weapons, we wouldn't be having this conversation with them.

Additionaly, there are reports that Saddam has told his troops to use their chemical weapons if we cross a certain "line".

I won't get into all the other stuff about protests, whether we have a coalition, etc., except to say this:

The best article I've read that most fully agrees with my position is titled:
"Bush is an Idiot, but he's Right about Saddam"
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2003/03/22/berman/index.html

Saddam has to go, but I wish that the Clinton administration wouldn've pushed the UN to get this done previously, and we wouldn't be in this mess now.

I thought we should've taken care of him back in 1991, but after listening to Gen Wesley Clark (ex-NATO chief) on TV, we weren't in position to do it then. I would definitely vote for this guy if he ran as President, and I don't care if he ran as a Democrat or Repulican.

For your information:
I consider myself a liberal.
I flew for the AF in the Persian Gulf War.
I support guns in the cockpit (I want one).
And, as I said before, I think Saddam needs to be taken out.

Cliff
GRB

PS-I pray to God that none of the coalition troops or Iraqi civilians are killed or wounded by Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. If the Iraqi troops that use any of these weapons kill themselves with them, I say, "The more the better! They deserve to rot in Hell!"

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I've just seen two reports that show caches of Iraqi chemical weapons suits that were found in the oil fields. They are similar to the MOPP gear that the US wears to help prevent NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) casualties. This is another indication that Iraq has NBC weapons and is prepared to use them.

Cliff
GRB

 

[mar]

Interesting post

Hey man. Nice job analyzing the situation objectively.

I'd suggest the reason you haven't received much response to your post is because it doesn't conveniently fit into any party's pigeon hole.

But that's real life, isn't it?

Fly safe.

 

[midlifeflyer]

atpcliff said:
I've just seen two reports that show caches of Iraqi chemical weapons suits that were found in the oil fields. They are similar to the MOPP gear that the US wears to help prevent NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) casualties. This is another indication that Iraq has NBC weapons and is prepared to use them.

You may be correct on the result, but the logic is faulty. Are you also saying that since =we= have protective suits, that shows that =we= have NBC weapons and are prepared to use them?

Of course not. But do the Iraqis know that? Isn't it just as conceivable that Saddam has been propaganziing his own people to believe that the US would wage chemical warfare against them and is providing them protective gear.

The logic of your argument comes down to:

Major premise: Iraq has NBC and is prepared to use them
Minor premise: Iraq has protective gear
Therefore, Iraq has NBC and is prepared to use them

My logic lingo is very old and rusty, but I think that's called a tautology.

 

[Captain X]

I wish that the Clinton administration wouldn've pushed the UN to get this done previously, and we wouldn't be in this mess now.

With that administration, you could wish in one hand and s!@# in the other when it came to military decisiveness and see which one filled up faster.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Midlifeflyer:

Your arquement could be correct, however:

Major premise: Iraq has NBC and is prepared to use them

In the past, this premise was not a premise, it was fact.

Iraq did manufacture and USE on it's own populations, NBC weapons. They did this on numerous occasions, not just one time.

You could argue that NOW, we don't know if Iraq has WMD and will use them, but I think this question is not very valid, as past behavior by Saddam's regime indicates that they are very willing to repeat their behavior again.

Cliff
GRB

 

[midlifeflyer]

You could argue that NOW, we don't know if Iraq has WMD and will use them

I wasn't arguing that at all. Just pointing out that the logic was faulty.

Probably pretty irrelevant, although both sides of the issue have people who unfortunately tend to go off half-cocked, make unwarranted assumptions and the use the assumptions they make to support the position they start with.

Saddam's prior use of chemical weapons and the absence of any showing by him that they have been destroyed or disposed of is some indication that they have them. But the existence of defensive clothing is not.


"If you assume that there are morons on both sides of any issue, you will never be disappointed."

 

[HueyPilot]

NBC logic

We have chem suits because the many of our potential enemies have chem weapons. The US does not possess any offensive chemical weapon capability. Iraq is the only nation in the ME that ever had a doctrine to use chemical weapons. Iran has attempted to develop NBC weapons, but thus far hasn't gotten too far. Saudi, Kuwait, and others also do not have NBC weapons. Israel does, but chances are low that they will use them in Iraq, considering it would probably hurt the coalition forces more than help.

It's not a 100% bet, but chances are likely that the chem suits exist because they still have an offensive NBC program. And US forces have to plan accordingly.