NMD at ASA

[crj567]

How are NMD pairing even showing up for reserves? Did somebody pick one up, then call in sick for it?



So let's say a pilot splits up a trip, then calls in sick for it. Technically the company didn't "initiate" the split. Hope that's not another one of those loopholes big enough to drive a truck through.

Gosh-

That all sounds sooooo familiar. Palm pointed out the need for "concrete language." This agreement is a mess. Probably just another loophole which will be exploited to the max.

-Durn... Where the heck have I heard all this talk about crap language before? Hmmm....

 

[crj567]

Joe we should always fight for better! Regional pilots should work more self respect.

It is tough to fight when you are wasting so much energy tooting your own horn.

-If this place had a parade, they would have to dedicate the lead float to Joe. He is simply that awesome!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Got a call about this little jewel yesterday, NMD on a reserve schedule. It means no min day credit for a reserve pilot. Part of the PBS agreement. It's one thing when a line holder picks up a trip that he/she knows is not worth min day but for a res guy to get assigned that while struggling to break 75 is pretty crappy.

I normally agree on things like this, but in this case, I have to respectfully disagree.

The reason we have the ability to drop portions of trips is that it doesn't cost the company extra money. That has always been the argument. "If pilot X wants to fly my last round trip, what can't they? It doesn't cost any money."

Well, if a reserve pilot is assigned a round trip that was split off of a pairing, then it DOES cost the company money if they are then also paid min guarantee. Therefore the company will just say, "Fine, no more dropping portions of trips." if we keep complaining about this.

I would rather have the ability to drop portions of trips. I'm sure this doesn't happen terribly often. 4 things have to happen for a reserve to get the short end of the stick.

1. A line pilot has to split off part of his pairing that is worth less than 3.75.
2. Another line pilot has to pick it up.
3. That line pilot has to call in sick afterwards.
4. A reserve pilot has to get assigned the pairing AND NOTHING ELSE. (Otherwise they go over 3.75, most likely, and the point is moot.)

Let's not fight this fight, because the result will be not being able to split pairings anymore, and that affects more people's QOL.

 

[aircombat]

Gosh-

That all sounds sooooo familiar. Palm pointed out the need for "concrete language." This agreement is a mess. Probably just another loophole which will be exploited to the max.

-Durn... Where the heck have I heard all this talk about crap language before? Hmmm....

We will never get better language in a contract as long as we have nearly illiterate southern negotiators.
When I was complaining back in 2009 about the loose language in this contract all they could say was “What do you know about contract negotiations?” I’ll admit that I don’t know much about contracts however our ALPA negotiators are all novice compared to the hired professionals that management uses. Why can’t we hire negotiators that know what they are doing and don’t have conflicting interests.

 

[gator_hater]

I normally agree on things like this, but in this case, I have to respectfully disagree.

Well, if a reserve pilot is assigned a round trip that was split off of a pairing, then it DOES cost the company money if they are then also paid min guarantee. Therefore the company will just say, "Fine, no more dropping portions of trips." if we keep complaining about this.

I would rather have the ability to drop portions of trips. I'm sure this doesn't happen terribly often. 4 things have to happen for a reserve to get the short end of the stick.

Let's not fight this fight, because the result will be not being able to split pairings anymore, and that affects more people's QOL.

Spoken like a typical senior commuter who has spent less than 6 months on reserve the entire time at ASA.

 

[No Delay]

I normally agree on things like this, but in this case, I have to respectfully disagree.

The reason we have the ability to drop portions of trips is that it doesn't cost the company extra money. That has always been the argument. "If pilot X wants to fly my last round trip, what can't they? It doesn't cost any money."

Well, if a reserve pilot is assigned a round trip that was split off of a pairing, then it DOES cost the company money if they are then also paid min guarantee. Therefore the company will just say, "Fine, no more dropping portions of trips." if we keep complaining about this.

I would rather have the ability to drop portions of trips. I'm sure this doesn't happen terribly often. 4 things have to happen for a reserve to get the short end of the stick.

1. A line pilot has to split off part of his pairing that is worth less than 3.75.
2. Another line pilot has to pick it up.
3. That line pilot has to call in sick afterwards.
4. A reserve pilot has to get assigned the pairing AND NOTHING ELSE. (Otherwise they go over 3.75, most likely, and the point is moot.)

Let's not fight this fight, because the reWsult will be not being able to split pairings anymore, and that affects more people's QOL.

How would this cost the company any more than if the pilot called in sick for the whole pairing??? In theory, split pairings can save the company. If the pairing is split before the pilot calls in sick, the company has paid out less in sick time and used the reserve less (allowing him to be available for other assignments)

Why, as a pilot group, are we always willing to allow the reserves to get the shaft. Why is the value of a reserve pilot always so much less than the value of line holding pilot? Who are you willing to sell out next? DTW pilots? IAD pilots? Anyone but you, right?

 

[bigshooter107]

Thank u. Would it be ok to lose to get no min day for day one to the overnight, then no min day for the leg home? It's not just the last round trip.

 

[Abernathy]

We will never get better language in a contract as long as we have nearly illiterate southern negotiators.

Somebody finally said it..

Ford & Harisson vs Gomer Pyle

 

[asayankee]

I normally agree on things like this, but in this case, I have to respectfully disagree.

The reason we have the ability to drop portions of trips is that it doesn't cost the company extra money. That has always been the argument. "If pilot X wants to fly my last round trip, what can't they? It doesn't cost any money."

Well, if a reserve pilot is assigned a round trip that was split off of a pairing, then it DOES cost the company money if they are then also paid min guarantee. Therefore the company will just say, "Fine, no more dropping portions of trips." if we keep complaining about this.

I would rather have the ability to drop portions of trips. I'm sure this doesn't happen terribly often. 4 things have to happen for a reserve to get the short end of the stick.

1. A line pilot has to split off part of his pairing that is worth less than 3.75.
2. Another line pilot has to pick it up.
3. That line pilot has to call in sick afterwards.
4. A reserve pilot has to get assigned the pairing AND NOTHING ELSE. (Otherwise they go over 3.75, most likely, and the point is moot.)

Let's not fight this fight, because the result will be not being able to split pairings anymore, and that affects more people's QOL.

You're not even close....there are a number of ways this can happen. A line pilot can pick apart any trip in opentime. That trip then is coded as NMND. Multiple pilots can do this to the same trip.....anything left over gets assigned to reserves as NMND. Sick calls are another area. Any operational delay can also force a reserve to be assigned the remainder of somebody else's trip...whether it's NMND or not.

 

[jstyle13]

Thank u. Would it be ok to lose to get no min day for day one to the overnight, then no min day for the leg home? It's not just the last round trip.

Holy crap! Is this the kind of thing that the commercial in 80's was talking about when it said drug use would fry your brain like an egg in a frying pan??? What the heck man?

 

[aircombat]

Holy crap! Is this the kind of thing that the commercial in 80's was talking about when it said drug use would fry your brain like an egg in a frying pan??? What the heck man?

He should be one of our contract negotiators!

 

[Abernathy]

He probably already is.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

How would this cost the company any more than if the pilot called in sick for the whole pairing??? In theory, split pairings can save the company. If the pairing is split before the pilot calls in sick, the company has paid out less in sick time and used the reserve less (allowing him to be available for other assignments)

Why, as a pilot group, are we always willing to allow the reserves to get the shaft. Why is the value of a reserve pilot always so much less than the value of line holding pilot? Who are you willing to sell out next? DTW pilots? IAD pilots? Anyone but you, right?

If you fly your whole trip, you get block or 3.75, whichever is greater. If you drop the RT and someone picks it up, they get block, and you are deducted block. That way it is a wash as far as cost to the company.

If the person picking up the trip got 3.75 or block, it would increase the cost to the company vs if the original pilot had just flown the original pairing. (They drop 2 hrs, and are deducted 2 hrs, but the guy picking it up gets paid 3.75, which COSTS 1.75)

Clear as mud?

That's why a reserve who gets assigned the pairing gets only block. Otherwise the company would NEVER have agreed to you being able to drop part of your pairing.

Pick your poison.

Btw, I was on reserve for 2 years. This is a seniority based industry, and schedules/pay get better over time. Like is said, we have to prioritize.

 

[bigshooter107]

Holy crap! Is this the kind of thing that the commercial in 80's was talking about when it said drug use would fry your brain like an egg in a frying pan??? What the heck man?

I really have to slow down and read before submitting, damn phone.

 

[aircombat]

If you fly your whole trip, you get block or 3.75, whichever is greater. If you drop the RT and someone picks it up, they get block, and you are deducted block. That way it is a wash as far as cost to the company.

If the person picking up the trip got 3.75 or block, it would increase the cost to the company vs if the original pilot had just flown the original pairing. (They drop 2 hrs, and are deducted 2 hrs, but the guy picking it up gets paid 3.75, which COSTS 1.75)

Clear as mud?

That's why a reserve who gets assigned the pairing gets only block. Otherwise the company would NEVER have agreed to you being able to drop part of your pairing.

Pick your poison.

Btw, I was on reserve for 2 years. This is a seniority based industry, and schedules/pay get better over time. Like is said, we have to prioritize.

and how much does it cost to dead head people once every week? They don't seem to be losing too much money with that. And as you pointed out earlier it isn't going to happen that often.
Some day maybe pilots will realize that we don't get paid enough to be the financial burden that they want to believe we are.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

and how much does it cost to dead head people once every week? They don't seem to be losing too much money with that. And as you pointed out earlier it isn't going to happen that often.
Some day maybe pilots will realize that we don't get paid enough to be the financial burden that they want to believe we are.

"Soft costs" (deadheads) are at the top of the list of things to cut.

My point is that we have to choose if we want to be able to drop trips or not. I vote for dropping trips, personally.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Come up with a solution where the reserves don't get burdened with this pay problem or drop the whole split pairing concept is my vote.

 

[aircombat]

"Soft costs" (deadheads) are at the top of the list of things to cut.

My point is that we have to choose if we want to be able to drop trips or not. I vote for dropping trips, personally.

and what exactly are you trying to accomplish by nickel and diming your fellow pilots? If you are going to say growth then save your breath because if pilot pay is a major contributing factor in negotiating future growth we will lose no matter what. That's the reality of being a senior airline.

 

[johnpeace]

If you want to drop trips...YOU pay for it!

 

[ASA_Aviator]

and what exactly are you trying to accomplish by nickel and diming your fellow pilots? If you are going to say growth then save your breath because if pilot pay is a major contributing factor in negotiating future growth we will lose no matter what. That's the reality of being a senior airline.

I'm not doing anything. I'm just sharing my opinion on why it won't fly.

I do think one of our major challenges is how senior our pilot group is. That makes it very difficult for us to compete with other airlines who make life miserable for pilots, and are therefore relatively junior.