NJI recruiting

kingfisher

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Posts
27
Total Time
5800
Hi: Can anyone tell me who the Chief Pilot is at NJI or who the head of recruiting is? Thank you.
 

gutshotdraw

ZERT Wilson CQB User
Joined
May 6, 2005
Posts
3,226
Total Time
9000
It is usually not cool to post real names on the site so I won't start here. However, direct your correspondence to the Director of Operations Attn: Pilot Recruitment and it will get to the right stack.

I will tell you that the stack is very tall. NJI is hiring approximately 6 per month through the rest of the year. Your total time is a bit low considering you don't have a Gulfstream rating but the single best way to get an interview is to search your network for someone employed by NJI and get your resume walked in.

Now, for an aside to Starman who will be unable to resist: I learned a long time ago to never say never. However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that NJI and NJA will EVER merge. Concentrate on good schedule and good money and leave the rest alone.

Back to you, Kingfisher--send in your paperwork through channels, try to locate an inside contact, and keep your fingers crossed.

Best of luck
 

kingfisher

Active member
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Posts
27
Total Time
5800
Nji

Thank you very much for your response. No harm in trying inspite of my low time, you never know!!
 

Schrode

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Posts
128
Total Time
7700
Nothing against you, I just had to laugh at a 5800 hour pilot being refered to as "Low Time". Hey, good luck with NJI - find the inside contact, it is the best way there. Many say it is a great job - but almost any job in a G-IV is going to be a good job.

Maybe I'm off too, but a merger of all NetJets companies' (NJA, NJI, NJM, NJE, NJ Sales, and NJ Canada) is being discussed at the highest of levels. What will become of those "discussions" is yet to be determined. But there is a whole lot of legal mumbo jumbo that is being reviewed as to the legality of these operating as seperate business while similar in function. My understanding of the legal side is that at least two of these companies, possibly three must merge or disolved or be in violation of Federal Law. But what is my opinion worth?
 

psysicx

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Posts
2,252
Total Time
-----
A guy on aviationinterviews got on with 3000 hrs and no Gulfstream time.
 

On Your Six

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,509
Total Time
9,500
gutshotdraw said:
It is usually not cool to post real names on the site so I won't start here. However, direct your correspondence to the Director of Operations Attn: Pilot Recruitment and it will get to the right stack.

I will tell you that the stack is very tall. NJI is hiring approximately 6 per month through the rest of the year. Your total time is a bit low considering you don't have a Gulfstream rating but the single best way to get an interview is to search your network for someone employed by NJI and get your resume walked in.

Now, for an aside to Starman who will be unable to resist: I learned a long time ago to never say never. However, it is EXTREMELY unlikely that NJI and NJA will EVER merge. Concentrate on good schedule and good money and leave the rest alone.

Back to you, Kingfisher--send in your paperwork through channels, try to locate an inside contact, and keep your fingers crossed.

Best of luck
Last time I checked, Netjets Europe operated everything from Bravos to GIVs/GVs. Never say never - the precedent has already been set and there is no logical reason to keep the units apart anymore given that NJA and NJI aircraft regularly substitute for each other on a daily basis...

Do you see any logical (read non-emotional) reason to keep them apart any longer if NJE operates all aircraft together????? I'd love to hear it...
 

suen1843

Confused Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
101
Total Time
100+
On Your Six said:
Last time I checked, Netjets Europe operated everything from Bravos to GIVs/GVs. Never say never - the precedent has already been set and there is no logical reason to keep the units apart anymore given that NJA and NJI aircraft regularly substitute for each other on a daily basis...

Do you see any logical (read non-emotional) reason to keep them apart any longer if NJE operates all aircraft together????? I'd love to hear it...
I think NJE does not operate Gulfstreams....NJME does.
 

gutshotdraw

ZERT Wilson CQB User
Joined
May 6, 2005
Posts
3,226
Total Time
9000
Okay Six,

I'll take a stab at it.

The reasons why NJI and NJA were established as separate divisions have been covered many times before on this board. The fact is, any attempt through the legal system to force a merger will likely fail because of the very specific language in the existing CBA which states that Gulfstream aircraft shall be operated by Executive Jet International. Right or wrong, that is how it is and shall remain UNLESS a change is negotiated in the new contract.

The question you have to ask is: How likely is it that RTS will agree to placing another division under the control of the union that has caused him so many headaches? I will also point out that NJI has established stand alone Operations, Training, Scheduling, Dispatch, International Handling, Travel, Human Resources, and Finance departments in South Carolina making it a bit more difficult to unscramble the egg.

As for Netjets Europe operating soup to nuts: it is their right. They are a separate division with their own operations and articles of incorporation. NJI has no right to demand they operate NJE's Gulfstreams nor has NJI asked.

The idea of merging EJM is a complete non-starter because many of the managed aircraft are not available for charter and are with EJM strictly to provide a hassle-free means of paying the bills, take advantage of bulk pricing, and have access to other options in the event of an AOG problem. Many of the managed aircraft owners would terminate their contracts ASAP if told "Your pilots are now members of IBT Local 1108 and will make what our contract says they will make." Do you think RTS will let go of that revenue stream?

You asked for a logical reason as to why keep the divisions separate. I will give you the most logical reason there is: NJI and EJM operations are profitable. NJA operations are not. (Key word alert: Operations) I will leave the why up to you.

One more note. The most popular reason bandied about for merging divisions is that NJA, NJI, EJM and NJE all work for the Same Company. Wouldn't that mean, in the event of a merger, the seniority lists should be blended based on date of hire by the Same Company? The NJA pilots ask for and deserve a fair contract--is it fair to demand a merger on the Same Company principle and then staple the other divisions to the bottom? Or just hypocritical?
 

suen1843

Confused Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2002
Posts
101
Total Time
100+
gutshotdraw said:
Okay Six, ........

The idea of merging EJM is a complete non-starter because many of the managed aircraft are not available for charter and are with EJM strictly to provide a hassle-free means of paying the bills, take advantage of bulk pricing, and have access to other options in the event of an AOG problem. Many of the managed aircraft owners would terminate their contracts ASAP if told "Your pilots are now members of IBT Local 1108 and will make what our contract says they will make." Do you think RTS will let go of that revenue stream?
From what I know from some friends who fly managed aircraft for EJM, they would be upset about having to take a pay cut....the owners would probably like it.
 

On Your Six

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Posts
4,509
Total Time
9,500
gutshotdraw said:
Okay Six,

I'll take a stab at it.

The reasons why NJI and NJA were established as separate divisions have been covered many times before on this board. The fact is, any attempt through the legal system to force a merger will likely fail because of the very specific language in the existing CBA which states that Gulfstream aircraft shall be operated by Executive Jet International. Right or wrong, that is how it is and shall remain UNLESS a change is negotiated in the new contract.

The question you have to ask is: How likely is it that RTS will agree to placing another division under the control of the union that has caused him so many headaches? I will also point out that NJI has established stand alone Operations, Training, Scheduling, Dispatch, International Handling, Travel, Human Resources, and Finance departments in South Carolina making it a bit more difficult to unscramble the egg.

As for Netjets Europe operating soup to nuts: it is their right. They are a separate division with their own operations and articles of incorporation. NJI has no right to demand they operate NJE's Gulfstreams nor has NJI asked.

The idea of merging EJM is a complete non-starter because many of the managed aircraft are not available for charter and are with EJM strictly to provide a hassle-free means of paying the bills, take advantage of bulk pricing, and have access to other options in the event of an AOG problem. Many of the managed aircraft owners would terminate their contracts ASAP if told "Your pilots are now members of IBT Local 1108 and will make what our contract says they will make." Do you think RTS will let go of that revenue stream?

You asked for a logical reason as to why keep the divisions separate. I will give you the most logical reason there is: NJI and EJM operations are profitable. NJA operations are not. (Key word alert: Operations) I will leave the why up to you.

One more note. The most popular reason bandied about for merging divisions is that NJA, NJI, EJM and NJE all work for the Same Company. Wouldn't that mean, in the event of a merger, the seniority lists should be blended based on date of hire by the Same Company? The NJA pilots ask for and deserve a fair contract--is it fair to demand a merger on the Same Company principle and then staple the other divisions to the bottom? Or just hypocritical?
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the non-confrontational manner of this discussion (unlike previous postings). I never thought EJM was under consideration given the owner-operated structure. However, I still think that the fact that NJI has stand alone operations when NJA already has the same resources (why do you need duplicative resources) is an example of waste that could be reinvested in the underpaid pilot and FA workforce. Sure, it's a small amount of cost when considered overall, but it is yet another example of unnecessary cost.

Everyone understands why NJI was set-up and how Forstman insisted upon a non-union workforce for the joint-venture with Gulfstream. However, times have changed and NJA owners are no different than NJI owners in terms of their expectations. Should the few BBJ owners expect anything different than the GIV/GV owners? Why are the aircraft interchangeable while the pilots are not? Why are NJE (and yes, the GIVs and Vs operate in Europe under one workforce - I have parked next to them at Luton and talked to them directly) pilots treated differently when NJA clearly subsidized NJE for years? There are a lot of non-sensical aspects and inequity in this situation. I would ask any NJI pilot to look at this situation from the other perspective - do you think it would be fair? How would you react?

I am not affiliated with Netjets. However, I know a number of NJA pilots who feel very strongly about this issue and the perceived inequity. I know this is a major issue for many NJA pilots. To me, it just doesn't make sense with NJE operating very differently (pilots flying all aircraft within the fleet) - that's blatantly unfair....
 

Starman

Truthsayer
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Posts
211
Total Time
'nuff
Take a first year business law course. Any section of a contract that violates federal law is null and void. 284 never challenged that section but you can bet that 1108 is going to get it done one way or the other - bargaining or via the courts. The majority of NJA pilots understand exactly where the cancer is in this company and they are the ones that get a vote.
 

gutshotdraw

ZERT Wilson CQB User
Joined
May 6, 2005
Posts
3,226
Total Time
9000
Six,

If we want to have a philosophical discussion about fairness, remember one thing: the American system guarantees equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. Big difference.

As to the peculiar organization that is Netjets, you asked for the one logical argument for the separation of divisions. Why do you think the IBT wants to see ALL the books and not just the NJA books to determine the financial health of the company? Because Netjets Services, Netjets Sales, Netjets International, and Executive Jet Management all show operating profit while Netjets Aviation shows an operating loss. Accounting smoke and mirrors perhaps but it is the reason why Woodbridge wants to maintain the separate identities of each division.

Note to suen1843: A pay cut for their pilots is exactly why many managed aircraft owners would LEAVE the program. Most pay extra in order to keep the SAME FACE in the cockpit because of their personal comfort level. A merger of EJM pilots into one seniority list and pay scale would cause widespread cancellation of EJM management contracts.
 

gutshotdraw

ZERT Wilson CQB User
Joined
May 6, 2005
Posts
3,226
Total Time
9000
There you are Starman, I knew you couldn't resist.

I know the MEC has retained the same counsel and consultants involved in the successful American Eagle single carrier lawsuit. I also know that 1108 has tabled a legal challenge on single carrier until negotiations are complete on a new CBA. To my knowledge, the existing CBA violates no labor law of any kind and is binding until superceded. (BA in pre-law and brother-in-law to a barrister by the way. Yes, I've asked him.)

Whether RTS chooses to negotiate away the competetive advantage NJI gives him is open to debate. As I wrote earlier, I will never say never. Regardless, keep in mind that there is nothing that prevents the folks in Woodbridge from selling off whichever division they see fit.
 

G4dude

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Posts
1,645
Total Time
15000
Starman said:
Take a first year business law course. Any section of a contract that violates federal law is null and void. 284 never challenged that section but you can bet that 1108 is going to get it done one way or the other - bargaining or via the courts. The majority of NJA pilots understand exactly where the cancer is in this company and they are the ones that get a vote.
So tell me, where exactly is the "cancer" in this company? I would submit the "cancer" is the IBT. Just curious. The idea of the Union ratifying- and its lawyers approving- a contract that violates Federal law is absurd. I needed a good laugh this morning, however, so thanks for the null and void observation.
 

Starman

Truthsayer
Joined
Oct 14, 2002
Posts
211
Total Time
'nuff
G4 -

Local 284 did a lot of absurd things. We're still trying to repair all the damage.

If you look at our current contract, it's pretty easy to tell that not a lot of legal review was done on our side. That's our fault and it won't happen again.

gutshot - have your barrister relative look over the RLA and court decisions on single-carrier status. The fact that we've tabled any legal appeal to the NMB on that issue doesn't mean it's dead.
 

gutshotdraw

ZERT Wilson CQB User
Joined
May 6, 2005
Posts
3,226
Total Time
9000
Starman,

I never said the single carrier issue was dead. In fact, it is one of the hot buttons in negotiations and I'm sure will be a primary topic when talks resume today. I am only pointing out that the more likely avenue to merger, should it happen at all, will be contractual changes and not legal action. My guess is, the negotiating committee will ultimately sacrifice single carrier in exchange for the right pay hike. Whether you and the rest of the membership choose to approve that trade-off in a new TA is an open question.

Meanwhile, I would like you to address the seniority blending issue. Rationally, please. As I wrote before, the main argument for single carrier is that NJA, NJI, EJM, and NJE all work for the Same Company. Doesn't that mean merger based on date-of-hire since all those crews supposedly were hired by the Same Company?
 
Last edited:

Bumz_Rush

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
Posts
103
Total Time
10,500
NJE do now operate G

Not certain since when but they do operate Gulfstreams....Bumz
 

seethecircus

Member
Joined
May 29, 2005
Posts
10
Total Time
16yrs
Not sure if anyone cares for an outsiders opinion, but since the advent of 91k isn't it really a moot point about union or non-union at NJI. The biggest reason for them being non-union in the first place was the range of the aircraft involved. What owner was going to want to buy into a plane that could go 14 hours if the pilot could only fly 10. Now since Feb. this has changed and the rules are now the same for all again anyway.
 
Last edited:

Heavy Set

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Posts
2,277
Total Time
15,000
seethecircus said:
Not sure if anyone cares for an outsiders opinion, but since the advent of 91k isn't it really a moot point about union or non-union at NJI. The biggest reason for them being non-union in the first place was the range of the aircraft involved. What owner was going to want to buy into a plane that could go 14 hours if the pilot could only fly 10. Now since Feb. this has changed and the rules are now the same for all again anyway.
My opinion is that if NJE already operates a fully mixed fleet from the Citations to the Gulfstreams, NJA should do the same given that all of the aircraft are already interchangeable with owners (e.g., GIV owner uses a Falcon 2000 if a GIV is not available or broken). Those barriers don't make sense anymore... They should grandfather the pilots in their current positions - GIV/GV FOs would need to bid NJA if they wanted to be Captains and all NEW Gulfstream FO positions should go to NJA pilots. Everyone would then work under the Netjets banner. Sounds fair to me...
 

wolfpackpilot

Diehard Republican
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Posts
899
Total Time
7000+
Heavy Set said:
They should grandfather the pilots in their current positions - GIV/GV FOs would need to bid NJA if they wanted to be Captains and all NEW Gulfstream FO positions should go to NJA pilots.
And take a $30,000 paycut?

No thanks, I"ll keep the status quo.
 
Top