NJI Bashing...

[old*art]

I think what we have here is a situation where we will just have to agree to disagree. No matter how many times it is said to the contrary and explained, the NJI folks will always say seat grab and equipment envy. Must be the electrons in that G cockpit, but in reality is more like the tower of Babel. If I was at NJI (where I did not even apply and do have contacts) I would want to keep my sweet deal and not have to admit my company was built on the backs of someone else and that a lot of my benies came from someone elses' hard work. Being at NJA, it is all about scope and an executive who has stabbed us in the back repeatedly. We say potato - you say potahtoe.

 

[old*art]

Apples and oranges Gutshot - see above.

 

[batsky2000]

Wolfpack, NJI was offered straight date of hire seniority integration and your boy RTS turned it down. 1108 put it straight on the table in the most fair manner, and again RTS starts games.

Who knows where this will end up now, but it started with a fair offer on this side. I think you have the wrong person speaking for you.

You know also why it was turned down? Because it would screw all of the pilots who have been hear for only a few years, and what about the pilots who just got hired? do you expect them to just take date of hire and get shoved into a beechjet? Think man, think, that just does not work, have to look deeper, like date of hire with a fence, not just date of hire, I can't speak for everyone here at NJI, but I would bet that 99.999% of us have no desire to fly something else like some of you think, we got hired to fly G's and plan on leaving flying G's

 

[NJA Capt]

Because it would screw all of the pilots who have been hear for only a few years, and what about the pilots who just got hired? do you expect them to just take date of hire and get shoved into a beechjet? ...I can't speak for everyone here at NJI, but I would bet that 99.999% of us have no desire to fly something else like some of you think, we got hired to fly G's and plan on leaving flying G's

Batsky, I think you need to talk to your own FOs. Last year I talked to several GIV FOs in TEB who were looking forward to flying the G200 because upgrade in the IV and V would take too long. Seems they were more than willing to "bid down" to get the left seat.

The offer was to drop the fence and pretend the separate companies never happened. Date of hire and flow back and forth between fleets. It doesn't get more equal than that. How is that more unfair to the NJI newhires? They would have been able to bid a Capt position on our side. Now they can't.....but we can bid to your side. (There is that word again....there shouldn't even be different sides). There is also no talk of "throwing you into a Beechjet." There is this thing called seniority. We can bid an opening but we can't make an opening.

Most of us don't care anything about flying the Gs. Nice airplane, but I have no interest in flying 10 hour legs. They're all yours. We just want to see the company combined into one large operation. It appears on this site at least, we are willing to share our toys, but you aren't.

And yet, they don't want NJI pilots to have the same right.......

NJI has the exact same option as Options. You are more than welcome to fill out the same cards they did and rights to the same "Democratic process."

 

[NJA Capt]

Because it would screw all of the pilots who have been hear for only a few years, and what about the pilots who just got hired?

PS....You really missed the boat on this one.

There are several thousand more pilots at NJA that would be affected than those at NJI. We have hired more pilots in the last 6 months than NJI has total. Only the top 300 or so pilots have any chance of bidding the Gs anyway. Your guys would stand a GREAT chance of bidding one of our airplanes. It would seem that you have more to gain by integration than us.

 

[NJAmerica]

I am a new hire in the XL and am obviously concerned about losing seniority.I left 121 to get away from all of the BS that we constantly had to put up with regarding combining lists.Could someone explain to me what a seniority list with a hedge would mean.

 

[CE750Driver]

You know also why it was turned down? Because it would screw all of the pilots who have been hear for only a few years, and what about the pilots who just got hired? do you expect them to just take date of hire and get shoved into a beechjet? Think man, think, that just does not work, have to look deeper, like date of hire with a fence, not just date of hire, I can't speak for everyone here at NJI, but I would bet that 99.999% of us have no desire to fly something else like some of you think, we got hired to fly G's and plan on leaving flying G's

Fences were offered for the G's in the G's and NJI out of any other class 4 or BBJs.
Think man, think.
What is wrong with that.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Batsky, I think you need to talk to your own FOs.

Here’s one and I’m basically agreeing with Batsky. I’ve had a pilot license for 19 years, yak, yak, and yak. No I’m better than you are, never said I was. But I didn’t pay my dues in this business to go bid Captain on an Ultra and make 80k/year. No insult, that’s great money for flying that equipment, the problem is I was flying it 8 years ago.

When I came to NJI, I knew full well what I was getting into. NJI wasn’t built off the backs of NJA pilots. More than 30% of our pilots came from NJA. So they built the company themselves, and they deserve credit for that. No one stole anything from anybody. I didn’t go to NJI because I’m a low time inexperienced piper pilot looking to build time (not saying NJA pilots are). I came here because I got an interview based on my resume, and they hired me. Let’s be honest here, most but not all of the NJA pilots are on their 1st or 2nd good flying job. I don’t know a NJI pilot who didn’t pull 20 in the USAF or 5 or more with a major airline. Once again, I’m not saying we’re better, just older. And we certainly have invested our lives into a company that has treated us well.

Date of Hire does nothing for me except loose my Gulfstream upgrade, which is why I came to work here in the 1st place. And at worst, it puts me in the right seat of “something” I don’t want to fly for who knows how long. All with the wonderful blue and white wallet sized “union” card.

No thanks.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Fences were offered for the G's in the G's and NJI out of any other class 4 or BBJs.
Think man, think.
What is wrong with that.

OK Brother,

Here’s the deal. I wasn’t there, didn’t hear a thing your talking about. But I’m here now! So lay it out on the line, what’s the give?

Is the IBT 1108 officially telling NJI pilots they will honor some type of fence in a “friendly” merger?

I do appreciate your civil attitude and demeanor this time around. Hopefully you realize I’m not being sarcastic.

 

[CE750Driver]

I am not in the office at 1108, but from what I understand, that was the offer. It was flatly refused, so of course now it will get ugly. Maybe someone who was there could verify......

BTW Ive been nothing but civil to you.

 

[NJA Capt]

But I didn’t pay my dues in this business to go bid Captain on an Ultra and make 80k/year. No thanks.

Wolf, you are getting all wound around the axle for nothing. No one said you were/would be kicked out of your beloved Gstream. I have plenty of seniority a NJA to bid over, but I couldn't care less about it. No one said you would have to lower yourself to a BJet or be forced anywhere. As I said above, it was NJI FOs that I talked to personally that wanted to bid down to get a PIC position. I am yet to talk personally to an NJA pilot that wants to bid the GIV.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I am not in the office at 1108, but from what I understand, that was the offer. It was flatly refused, so of course now it will get ugly. Maybe someone who was there could verify......

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

 

[batsky2000]

Batsky, I think you need to talk to your own FOs. Last year I talked to several GIV FOs in TEB who were looking forward to flying the G200 because upgrade in the IV and V would take too long. Seems they were more than willing to "bid down" to get the left seat.

The offer was to drop the fence and pretend the separate companies never happened. Date of hire and flow back and forth between fleets. It doesn't get more equal than that. How is that more unfair to the NJI newhires? They would have been able to bid a Capt position on our side. Now they can't.....but we can bid to your side. (There is that word again....there shouldn't even be different sides). There is also no talk of "throwing you into a Beechjet." There is this thing called seniority. We can bid an opening but we can't make an opening.

Most of us don't care anything about flying the Gs. Nice airplane, but I have no interest in flying 10 hour legs. They're all yours. We just want to see the company combined into one large operation. It appears on this site at least, we are willing to share our toys, but you aren't.


I don't know which FO's you have been talking to, but if they want to go, then good for them, if taking a pay cut is worth it to fly in the left seat, then they can move over, I don't know of too many of us that want to fly over there in a G200 just so that we can sit in the left seat and make less, not much logic to that decision, considering the fact that you guys had plenty that were on bypass pay that could care less about the left seat, it was all about the money, so now these guys are willing to take a pay cut to fly in the left seat, again, not much logic to that decision, to each his own

But again, I seriously doubt that the 1108 considered the new hires that we have, do you think that without a fence that our new hires would still be able to fly the G? Like Wolf said, we were all hired here at NJI to fly the G, I enjoy the long legs, Most of my experience is all Int'l flying to all parts of the world, and I love it, been doing it for years and will continue to do it for years, have no desire to go back to a small jet and get stuck flying only domestic trips, not my thing, for you the long legs is not your thing, at least we agree on that point, so why not just keep things as they are and lets just do our jobs?

 

[CE750Driver]

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

Man, are you gonna get what you deserve. 1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh. Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

BTW, it wasnt rumor and conjecture, but you can think it is if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. NJA pilots are not in the dark like you guys.

Have a great day.

 

[NJA Capt]

Like Wolf said, we were all hired here at NJI to fly the G, I enjoy the long legs, Most of my experience is all Int'l flying to all parts of the world, and I love it, been doing it for years and will continue to do it for years, have no desire to go back to a small jet and get stuck flying only domestic trips, not my thing, for you the long legs is not your thing, at least we agree on that point, so why not just keep things as they are and lets just do our jobs?

You guys are only hearing what you want to hear. No one one is going to kick you out of your Gulfthing. Although it might be a humbling experience.

Why Bother? Because there are two companies doing the same thing under the same name for the same people. Did Delta form a new airline to run the 777? Did the military form a new Air Force to fly the F22? One company/One list thats all we are saying.

Again: No one said you would be kicked out of your seats, senior Gs or Newhires.

PS. The next time you turn your nose up or laugh at a "little" Ultra pilot at TEB, keep in mind it is quite possible that he has more time over the Pacific than you have. There are plenty of people that think your G is a light twin. Believe it or not, not everyone aspires to do so much International flying.

You conveniently ignore the fact that more pilots at NJA have something to lose than you or your new hires.

 

[NJANJIFLEXFLOP]

Man, are you gonna get what you deserve. 1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh. Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

BTW, it wasnt rumor and conjecture, but you can think it is if it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. NJA pilots are not in the dark like you guys.

Have a great day.

WOLFPACK...You have been very nice...I however dont care what they think.

Ahem, Integrity???? CE700Driver (AKA CE750Stealer) you have no integrity after admitting to stealing tips for cleaning your airplane.....go somewhere else a come back with a better defense. And NJI isnt scared of any union that itself doesnt know what they are going to do muchless how they are going to win..(Like that will ever happen)

Its plain and simple.. We here at NJI avoided NJA, FLEX, FLOPS, CocaCola, HP, NIKE, etc etc to come here to NJI. It just wasnt they place we wanted to be. Not because of a Union it was because we wanted to fly international trips in the Gulfstream. And remember we didnt just fall out of a 172 into this position just like none of you did. NJI, just like NJA, has an interview process and we all went through it with multifaceted resumes.

I think that the better question is WHY is NJA so thirsty for NJI? What gives? If you dont want to do the long flights why are you even interested. MOre Union Dues for your Proud Union? That doesnt help you as the individual...but it sure helps the TEAMSTERS..(Oxymoron)

I spoke my peace....But come on...Quit trying to scare us with tactics like, stapling, blah blah blah thats what Unions "due".....We arent union and it doesnt work over here.

BTW...Is Granny still helping you make your Car payments from the TIP jar??

 

[TORCH67]

Go ahead and bury your head in the sand and do nothing! This will play out with or without the NJI pilots having a say in it, Your Choice. You could have pilots speaking for you, or you could have Woodbridge!

 

[BBJPILOT]

Oh, no, no, no! And the riddle continues. So you don’t even know what your own union offered, and your just repeating what you heard? Here I thought I was having a professional and informed discussion with someone in the ‘know’ and it turns out you don’t know anymore than I do. Do any of you have a clue as to what your union is doing in regards to the NJI pilots? Anyone?

And here in lies the problem when everyone stands around the Union May Pole and sings kumbayah; nobody but about 4 guys really know what was said and to who, and those same guys will lead a herd of thousands right over the cliff.

Let’s play a game show:

WOULD THE REAL IBT 1108 PLEASE STAND UP!

Yep, sure do. Also know exactly who, when, and where "your side" threw you under the wheels. There was a much better offer, FOR YOU, than what you have now, and what you will have! MUCH BETTER! Time is all NJA lost! Now there is no doubt that the players in Woodbridge will attempt to develop amnesia, they already got rid of the man who was the mouth piece, and that is always expected from the "Great One", but that will only make it even more fun!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

1108 has more integrity in there little fingers than you have in your body. If they ever lowered themselves to tell someone with a god complex like you what they were gonna do I would laugh.

Where did that come from? Now who’s throwing mud? All I said was I thought you and I were having an informed discussion because you had 1st hand knowledge of an offer made to Mr. Santulli (not the NJI pilots). And when you told me you didn’t really know for sure because you weren’t there, I say the riddle continues.

For the sake of a professional discussion I am hereby inviting the following to chime in and please tell me if I’m wrong. Please read this thread, all my posts, and the replies and tell me where I have no integrity.

Diesel
Grizz
Batsky
Hogprint
Oldf*rt
Gunfyter
Guts
And to show I’m not a discriminating person, would the wife care to comment?

Enjoy your time in the Gwhiz, never know how long its gonna last.

I am fully capable of flying Gulfstreams for operators other than NetJets. I have a very close network of friends that span this industry and my resume is impeccable; I have never feared being unemployed, I’m not starting now.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Yep, sure do

Well come on Big Guy, spill it already. Quit talking in circles and acting like you’re holding the winning lottery ticket.

Let’s play a math quiz.

Year: 2009

NJI Pilots: Still non-union

NJA Pilots: win NMB petition


Answer is: _____________________


NJI pilots are not going to unionize in my opinion. So if you’re waiting for that to happen, move to step 2. Let’s say you win the whole enchilada, what is the official position of the pilots represented by Teamsters local 1108 in regards to the integration and treatment of NJI pilots?

Am I speaking Greek here…..


Oh, and on side note you guys look pretty ignorant making offers to Woodbridge about a pilot group who you have “never” made a formal statement too. I check my mailbox everyday. And yes I would be more than happy to supply my name and address to the 1108 so they could keep me "OFFICIALLY" informed on their agenda concerning me and my job!

Reminds me of three passengers (total strangers) sitting in a row, the 1st guy asks the middle guy to ask the 3rd guy if he’d like to trade his peanuts for pretzels. 2nd guy looks at 1st guy and says he’s allergic to pretzels… and he looks like he’s sleeping anyway.