NJA wanted NJI pilots to become part of Union in TA?

[HawkerF/O]

I could have sworn I read that somewhere, but was not sure. Is that true? Did the NJA pilots want the NJI guys to be forced to unionize and merged with them as part of their TA? I can't imagine that is accurate, but thought I would ask. Thanks

 

[gutshotdraw]

Here we go again.....

 

[ProFracPilot]

If you use the search function on this subject, you'll come up with more than enough to read with your morning coffee.

 

[cl604driver]

I just got to throw in my 2 cents. Do you NJA guys really think that you are going to merge with NJI. Come on get real, these guys want no part of you, nor your union, and I am sure once the TA is ratified evenif it gets ratified they will make some changes to the NJI clause. Why would they want to be unionized with you guys. Do you really think that if they merge a ultra captain is going to be making G pay, I dont think so. At the end of the day that is the only reason you want the 2 companies together is because nji makes better pay and you want a piece of the pie. Dont blame you but, i am sorry you cant compare those twin cessnas and beechjunks to a GIV or GV. The NJI guys may not tell you this but that is the word in all the FBOs.

 

[Grizz]

I just got to throw in my 2 cents.

Why? You obviously aren't effected by any of this and just as obviously you don't have the faintest inkling about the history here and the promises made to the pilots at NJA. Chiming in with some grandiose opinion without any facts just makes you look silly.

 

[cl604driver]

next time you walk around the fbo sitting on your a$$ waiting for your 14 hours to be up listen to these NJI guys talk about you, your union, and what they wont let happen to them. I have a couple of buddies there 5 to be exact and according to them NJA and NJI merger will never be. Just giving you the facts that I have heard,not only from my buddies but several other NJI guys. They want no part of the union at all...

 

[ce750drvr]

next time you walk around the fbo sitting on your a$$ waiting for your 14 hours to be up listen to these NJI guys talk about you, your union, and what they wont let happen to them. I have a couple of buddies there 5 to be exact and according to them NJA and NJI merger will never be. Just giving you the facts that I have heard,not only from my buddies but several other NJI guys. They want no part of the union at all...

Ok, just as I posted in the other thread in response to you. You have no idea what we do. I have never sat on my ass for 4 hours much less 14. NJI pilots do not control management and what management does. They also have no control over letting something happen or not happening. Your 5 buddies (whatever), if it happens, can join and we will accept them with open arms or they can find employment elsewhere. The FACTS that you have heard are just opinions. So they want no part of the union, that is a decision they will have to make if the single carrier petition is approved. So again, quit relying on opinion and do some homework, get your facts straight and then post. You are really looking like a fool. Where is your dog anyway?

 

[cl604driver]

my dog is humping yours

 

[ce750drvr]

my dog is humping yours

Dude, my dog is a boy dog. Yours must be gay. Wait, does that make my dog gay too. dang, now I gotta trade him in for a heterosexual dog. Way to go LJP, keep your dog on a leash. :beer:

 

[cl604driver]

mine tends to stray on occasion depending on if it is a full moon.

 

[ce750drvr]

mine tends to stray on occasion depending on if it is a full moon.

Hey man, it's been fun, but today is my B day and my girlfriend is taking me to dinner. Fly safe.

 

[JustInfo]

Whats gotta really pis them off and others is the fact I am going to be making 90K a year working 7 on 7 off minus vacations flying one of your "twin cessnas." Calling my plane names still doesn't make me want to step foot in a Gulfstream...

 

[bluepost]

Funny thing is that a 5 year ultra captain will make 135k a year flying that twin cessna if he whores himself out for 20 days a month on the reserve...not saying that is what I want to do but the option for an ultra guy to make 135k at the drop of a hat (not counting per diem or holiday pay) is pretty impressive if you ask me. If he is a check airman add 12k a year to that.

 

[hydrarkt]

next time you walk around the fbo sitting on your a$$ waiting for your 14 hours to be up listen to these NJI guys talk about you, your union, and what they wont let happen to them. I have a couple of buddies there 5 to be exact and according to them NJA and NJI merger will never be. Just giving you the facts that I have heard,not only from my buddies but several other NJI guys. They want no part of the union at all...

Learjet,
How long have you been in this industry? Can't you see that it doesn't always matter what one group wants? Don't you know anything about corporate America, airlines and unions?
The NJA TA that will be ratified by the pilots of 1108 on Nov 21 will guarantee NJA pilots slots in NJI Gulfstreams. NJI won't be a part of NJA... YET. However, in 3 years, the National Mediation Board will hear a single carrier petition filed by 1108. If the NMB agrees that NJA and NJI are a "single carrier" (and the chances of that are VERY good), NJI pilots WILL BE integrated into NJA. They won't have a choice!!! If they choose to not join the Union, they will no longer be allowed employment at Netjets.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hydrarkt,

You were mostly right up until that last sentence. IF a single carrier petition is approved by the NMB, NJI pilots MUST be integrated into IBT 1108's seniority list in an "equitable" fashion. Anyone choosing not to belong to IBT will retain their employment but be forced to pay an administrative fee to the union equal to what their dues would have been. NJI pilots will retain the seat they hold as of the merger and WILL NOT be displaced from their seat until and unless equipment draw down forces them off the equipment and into a re-bid according to their new integrated seniority position.

As to the underlying question of single carrier: Is it possible? Absolutely. Is it likely? Perhaps. Is it a slam dunk? Not even close.

 

[ex-nutjeter]

One thing I will say is that the Class 4 rates that NJA negotiated for Captains is much higher than what current NJI capt.s make, I hope that my buds over at NJI as well as all the Capt.s at NJI get a huge raise to match that Pay scale

This is one positive outlook at this TA for the NJI pilots, they may all be looking at a raise soon!!!!!

 

[wolfpackpilot]

If they choose to not join the Union, they will no longer be allowed employment at Netjets.

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!

Quit putting out false information.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Anyone choosing not to belong to IBT will retain their employment but be forced to pay an administrative fee to the union equal to what their dues would have been.

Gunshot,

Im not sure this is completely correct. I am waiting for a friend who practices labor law to confirm this. My understanding is that non-union employees who as a result of; 1. a buy out, or merger. 2. a vote to unionize by a work group. would not have to pay any union dues or administrative fees associated with said union. Also South Carolina law could come into play depending on what the NMB states in their decision.

Joining a union in connection with going to work for a unionized company already in place as a condition of employment is totally different than our situation.

Once I have a legal answer, I will certainly share it.

 

[gunfyter]

Its all no big deal... the union administrative fees are a lot less than the raise the union negotiated for you...

You're Welcome....

 

[wolfpackpilot]

gunfyter,

I agree with your statement; as long as your sitting in the left seat. NJI FO's would take a clear paycut under the TA.

However, I think a major milestone has been accomplished with the overall look of this TA. I think NJA pilots should ratify the agreement, but thats just my opinion.

(ya I know, keep my opinions to myself)

 

[gunfyter]

Maybe FO's won't have to go on that scale. Grandfathered?

Or can bid PIC spots.

I gotta admit it doesn't affect me. There are 300 people on the A side in the way of me getting into a class 4 airplane... so about 100 planes away from it

 

[gutshotdraw]

Wolfpack,

As I understand it, IF a merger occurs, even those pilots who choose not to join IBT (which is their right) must still pay a fee because even the non-union employees benefit from the collective negotiation conducted by the union. It may not be palatable to some, but they always have the option of seeking greener (or at least different) pastures.

As for the salary scale of the TA, you are correct that a current NJI F/O would take a pay cut if governed by NJA pay rates for a pilot with equivalent time of service. However, under the TA, a Captain with more than 5 years of service, holding a seat on a category 4 aircraft, will make more than an NJI Captain with equivalent time of service. As with most airline negotiations, the more senior members of the union (ie: Captains) made out much better under the TA than did junior members while new hires will really have to pay some dues before they benefit.

RTS is supposed to make another visit to Hilton Head after the contract is signed. If he hopes to successfully fight a single carrier petition, he will need the support of the NJI pilots. What better way to garner support among the troops than to announce improvements to the NJI schedule, vacation, and pay policies?

 

[ex-nutjeter]

I have friends at NJI who have been there between 6-8 years who don't make what a 1st year Class 4 Capt. makes at NJA in the new TA, year 1 pay is $120,000 in the new TA.

I hope that this new TA will boost your pay to the new level and not just NJA's, my friends deserve it as do all of you

 

[zman300]

Gunshot,

Im not sure this is completely correct. I am waiting for a friend who practices labor law to confirm this. My understanding is that non-union employees who as a result of; 1. a buy out, or merger. 2. a vote to unionize by a work group. would not have to pay any union dues or administrative fees associated with said union. Also South Carolina law could come into play depending on what the NMB states in their decision.

Joining a union in connection with going to work for a unionized company already in place as a condition of employment is totally different than our situation.

Once I have a legal answer, I will certainly share it.

I was wondering about this myself; right-to-work state implications? I dunno'.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

I was wondering about this myself; right-to-work state implications? I dunno'.

Correct. And here in lies the conundrum faced by all parties involved. The NMB cannot force a company to cease the operation of a subsidiary company. They can however interpret the operation of said subsidiary and rule that the operation is essentially an attempt to subvert a union contract. In which case the union would have the right to demand an integration of the 2 groups. The parent company can still operate the company in question. This is where state laws may or may not play a part in determining whether the non-union employees would have to pay the administration fee associated with the union.

Federal Law (and some States, S.C. included) provides that no employee of a non-union work force will be forced to join or pay any dues or fees associated with union membership if his or her work group legally unionizes. This is where the term ‘grandfather’ comes from. At my last airline there were still 20 or so pilots who never joined the union and were on the property at the time the union was voted in. They never paid a dime in union dues. What I'm trying to ascertain is:

1. Does this apply to buy out and mergers
2. Does this apply to NMB rulings

Also the NMB could make a statement on this particular issue as well, as it lies within their purview. There is plenty of time for speculation, nothing happens for three years. And that’s an eternity in labor issues.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Man, that's alot of mental masturbation.

 

[hydrarkt]

as long as your sitting in the left seat. NJI FO's would take a clear paycut under the TA.
)

WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!
Stop using bad english!!!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Ok... so I got tired of reading everyone's guesses here. I asked someone who has dealt with scope lawyers and who is in the know what the real deal was. The NJI LOU becomes binding if the TA is ratified. Period.

RTS agreed to it, now RTS will get it... and so will NJI. RTS can play games with the NJI/NJA pilots but in the end he doesn't care about NJI pilots (and certainly not NJA pilots).

This in no merger. It is an re-aquisition of what should have never been there BACK into NJA. That being said, with this NJI LOU and an ironclad single carrier lawsuit in the 1108 memberships pocket, transplantation of the G4 and G5s to NJA will happen eventually. Not if, when.

The most senior guy there is 10 yrs. NJA has 17-18 yr guys looking at coming on over. They will be the senior monkey on deck. Period.

Ok... options for NJI pilots going forward in the 36 months following TA ratification.

Option #1... Voluntarily and cooperatively work with the 1108 leadership towards seniority integration.

Get a good deal. Get relatively fair protections. Work openly and productively to secure your futures.

Option#2... Resist1108.

This would have varying degrees of detrimental result for the typical NJI pilot.

1108 will throw everything at NJI pilots to give them as little as possible in the end deal. All available resources will go towards this effort. This is very different than option #1. All bets would be off. Options to file the necessary motions for a complete removal of all G4 and G5 aircraft and place them on NJA property could be exercised. Notice I didn't say anything about pilots.

The RLA allows for any of the above options. It just does. No "ifs", "ands" or "what about right to work" state about it.

If the NJI group decides to fight, I salute you. Game will be on. All of you will face some of the most formidable negotiators and scope lawyers in the business. Ever.

I'd take the red pill.

The fact that some of NJI operations are in SC makes absolutely no difference in the world. Zero. NJI interacts completelt with the CMH unit who's boss resides in NJ and who's operating certificate is based in OK. Seems like a weak argument.

 

[2EASYPilot]

If the above is true, and I do not doubt it....it's time for the NJI guys to start working on their resumes.

 

[FLYLOW22]

If the above is true, and I do not doubt it....it's time for the NJI guys to start working on their resumes.

If they do not fancy being a member of a Union... maybe.