NJA TA...What's your bet?

[skiandsurf]

Those who read the proposal time and time again, asking the tough questions, and staying informed are labeled as haters.

I will say that there are some really good questions being asked on the union board, and I do thank those that ask them. And BO and others do a great job answering these questions.

As far as being labeled haters, I think it is just the tone of a few that keep beating this down.

 

[netjetwife]

You gotta love the people that think about ME covering it up with them saying they really are helping out everyone else and want to lift all boats. You are really reaching now... I'm on record many times as advocating professional wages for all frac pilots. Any NJ pilot would be hard pressed to find a family more supportive of those on the bottom of the list than my family is. I explained where I'm "coming from" because it helps readers identify the motivation of the poster when they know that person's circumstances. Suffice it to say, board members, that Die$el and I don't have much in common --financially speaking...

Some people aren't blinded by the short term fixes of small increase in pay, "Small" is relative... the less money one has the bigger the pay raise looks. and a reduced hba groups, with the hope that this all will be revisited before 2013. Those who read the proposal time and time again, asking the tough questions, and staying informed are labeled as haters. It has been my observation that those respectfully asking questions are answered the same way. Many pilots like the idea of 100 bases instead of 5 domiciles for the post CBAers and contract language that secures HBAs indefinitely is viewed as an important gain for those in that system. I'm not alone in thinking that passage of the IBB TA will make it more likely that the IBB method will be repeated as needed in the future.

All the documentation isn't even published yet. Just a matter of time, might even be at the printer's now. LOA's changed the last contract from what we originally signed. I highly doubt that the negotiators would spring an ugly surprise on the pilot group at the 11th hour when both sides want the proposal to pass. If there was anything added, common sense says they would try to sweeten the deal. I really don't care about intent. Next week part of the IBB team will spend a lot of time working with transcripts that will be used to settle future disagreements. (I always ask about my husband's work... ) Intent was considered a critical component of IBB so a stenographer took down every word. I care about the written word so until I've got ALL associated documents and been to the meetings (not AA) I can't make a decision till then. I have been to a meeting. (I was included in the talk afterwards--thanks guys! ) The few pilots who expressed concern were easily reassured with the explanations given. The audience was interested in the intent/attitudes (especially from management) behind the deal. It was explained that some of the language was there in the event of a worst case scenario and improvements over the 2005 CBA were cited. The NJ pilots were appreciative of the insight shared by an EBoard Trustee, a negotiator, and 3 MEC members. No one accused the leadership of being "blind"...

Read the IBB like it might be your last contract for 8.5 years. Because it just might be and you better love the damn thing. My suggestion: Read it with an open-mind and the idea of supporting the IBB process by doing your part to continue moving forward as a union and a company. Give positive reinforcement to the leaders of both sides and they will be more inclined to solve problems fairly and quickly in the years ahead. Lock in job security and QOL improvements now while NJA is posting big profits that aren't yet being siphoned off to start up another NJ company elsewhere in the world.

Or go for the short money. Those who need the money know what a big difference it will make in their life. The pilots who understand IBB realize that there is only one chance to accept the final deal. All the rejected proposals were slid back and forth across the table already. IBB saves time but it does require trustworthy leaders to be advantageous to the group. We all get a vote.

I think that most of the NJ pilots look forward to voting on the proposal. They know that the same leadership that brought them the current CBA worked on and/or endorsed the IBB proposal. Most understand that compromise is required at the bargaining table. I predict that the majority is satisfied that IBB brought a deal that is fair overall while offering job security and a chance to concentrate on personal life without having to go thru another stressful contract battle just to possibly acquire what they are being offered right now.

I'm hoping that IBB makes a direct positive impact on the NJ pilot group and indirectly on other fractional pilots by raising wages in the industry. Best wishes to all affected by the outcome.
Netjetwife

 

[fischman]

Another thing to keep in mind. Everyone is saying this is an 8.5 year deal. Keep in mind that the company needs to jump though A LOT of hoops for that to happen. Just something to think about.

 

[ce750drvr]

I am the first one to agree that seniority has privelages and not once have I compained about the commute or pay. Let me ask all of you this. When do us newbees earn, yes I said EARN the right to have a voice???? Is it 1 year, 2 years, 3, 4 when???? I'm guessing NEVER because we weren't here to fight the fight with you. Don't get me wrong. It is greatly appreciated and I extend my thanks to those that had the guts to stand up and fight. If I was working at NJA at the time I'd be fighting right alongside you. But man, the more I read the more I think
that some, NOT ALL of the pre-rats have a superiority complex. I try to be respectful as I can but it is disappointing to know how soon some of you may have forgotten what it was like when you started. How quickly one forgets.
It seems that all this condescending patroninzing is getting on OUR nerves. Most of you guys have the same stock answer, "Now, you go be good little ugly red headed stepchhildren locked in the basement and we'll let you know when you can come on up and get something to eat you little post-rat. Afterall you knew whatchy'all got yourselves into!" (banjo playing deliverence in the background)

Hopalong,

You DO have a voice NOW, it is called a vote. Do what you will with it. I respect your yes vote and have no problem with it. Congrats if it passes my friend. What I have a problem with is this; when I express my dissatisfaction with some of the areas of the IBB and voice that I will vote no, I am told that I am greedy and not thinking of the "post-rat" (by the way, I hate that term and have used it for the first time just now) guys. I am accused of being a "me", "I", or "selfish" person. The term on the union message board is "the MEssage" board for those of us voting no. A term started by someone on the EB. Kinda sad when they tell us to vote what is best for me and my family. Im sorry to tell you, but it IS my vote. Your commute, your pay, and whatever it is that helps you and your family quite frankly might not help me and my family. I'm not angry at anyone that votes yes, but it seems that if us NO voters express that we are voting no, we catch some anger from some. Vote yes, I'm happy for you as I have said if it passes, but I'm voting no.

 

[Ultra Grump]

...contract language that secures HBAs indefinitely is viewed as an important gain for those in that system.

The changes to the HBA system are most definitely NOT a gain.

 

[captain dad]

I don't wish to start a fight or set flame bait.

I respect everyone's choice and when it comes down to it, it doesn't really matter. Everyone will vote the way they want and not much will change their minds.

The people that pound their fist on the message board podium, shooting holes, and spreading half truths, are the ones I have issue with. There are several, on both sides of the vote, that like to sling the mud and start the arguments. I think discussion is great. Questions, answers, clarification, are all good things. However, starting a fight is petty, selfish, and pointless. I think we all see that the majority of these "I'm right and you're a tool" types are "NO" voters, but I am biased so I disqualify myself and digress.

I am a "post-rat" pilot. Trust me it is not by choice. I would love to have been hired four years ago and be PIC in a XLS, but I wasn't. Instead, I commute and I have never complained about it and I will gladly continue no matter what. I knew, prior to day one, what I was doing and getting into. I am voting yes for numerous reasons which include the next ten years of good wages, QOL, schedule choices, and yes bases, but not only bases.

My point is; say what you want, vote what you want, but do it with a little dignity and respect for others and their opinions. There are those on both sides of the vote that, in my humble opinion, make us all look like a bunch of boobs throwing a childish tantrum over so much candy. It lowers us and our profession. I'm not telling anyone what to do or say. I believe this to be the best and most desireable job in aviation, so can we all act accordingly? Just a suggestion, that we all continue to conduct our business, in this public forum, in a civil manner.

Respectfully,
Rage On!

 

[SwissAviator]

Well said!

 

[netjetwife]

I second that!

 

[popgoesbubble]

Well Said I'm Voting YES!

 

[Diesel]

I've got a meeting tonight so I'll be pithy. The bar has been moved again. So I'm looking forward to seeing what is behind door number 3.

Never take the first deal or fly the "A" model.

 

[netjetwife]

IBB is not the same as traditional contract bargaining. The IBB proposal is sometimes referred to as a TA (easier to type) but they are quite different. In IBB all of the offers and counter-offers have been pushed back and forth across the table and/or discussed in the open-forum joint bargaining/brainstorming sessions. During IBB 1108 leaders are allowed to speak for the union each time until the final deal is negotiated. The process saves time and facilitates an atmosphere of cooperation. Each side was representing their own interests, but all were committed to finding solutions acceptable to both parties. When their work is completed the pilotgroup gets to accept it or reject it--one time.

Give and take is the foundation of IBB. 1108's team gave much of their personal time to bring the pilots a proposal that was the best deal they could work out. I ask that all involved take the time to read it thoroughly with an open-mind and the understanding that it was designed to move the Union forward as a whole and rightfully concentrated on overall improvements while simultaneously bringing more productivity and flexibility to the company that would, in turn, give the pilotgroup greater job security and an attractive, worthwhile career. NJW

 

[captain dad]

Check Out "Mission Accomplished!" thread on union site.

Things just got even better. Thanks 1108!

 

[x402]

Check Out "Mission Accomplished!" thread on union site.

Things just got even better. Thanks 1108!

Really?
What changed to be able to give a hard number to 15-18 yr pilots?
Did the PTO transition pay for it?
I thought you wanted to WAIT for the complete details.

 

[RTRHD]

Really?
What changed to be able to give a hard number to 15-18 yr pilots?
Did the PTO transition pay for it?
I thought you wanted to WAIT for the complete details.

Why is everyone getting everything they want?

 

[imacdog]

Why is everyone getting everything they want?

Not everything; we still don't have uniform hats.