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NJA TA...What's your bet?

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Absolutely being positive gets results. It's tied to winning while negativity goes with quitting. It's also good strategy to cheer for your team while they are on the field, especially when they are working long hours--for free.

Interesting spin there Diesel...:rolleyes: It's not as though you voted down one offer and held out for more. Obviously, it was about the money with you, too. In spite of your digs at me for making pay a main issue, clearly, the end result$ played a big part in winning you over. I've been surprised at your attitude because you could ea$ily afford to be generous in supporting those who needed the money for basic necessities.

Clarification: I wasn't referring to your experience handling money. I'm sure you've had plenty. I was making the point that those with far less $ viewed the IBB proposal as acceptable early on. We viewed the TA from different perspectives. You from a two wage-earners, no children lifestyle. Me from a one bread-winner, three kids, family.

In spite of that difference, we share a dedication to the Union. I'm very pleased for you (and the other hold-outs) that the pot was sweetened to your liking in the end. That didn't surprise me at all. I had the faith all along. I wasn't optimistic because I'm naive, but because I was observing my husband closely and watching him for signals. Too bad you didn't take the hints. You missed your chance to be a hero, but I'm sure you'll make a handsome goat...;)
 
Yup, I think those w/young children get it...:p Actual, I'm addressing the differences in our economic perspective. Those w/more discretionary income (hinted at by lifestyle) could afford to be picky when it came to supporting the proposal. Basic fact of life: those more in need of the money were generally quicker to support the TA. I'm just glad more pilots are now getting on board. The higher the vote count the better when you're looking for a general consensus.
 
Obviously, it was about the money with you, too. In spite of your digs at me for making pay a main issue, clearly, the end result$ played a big part in winning you over. I've been surprised at your attitude because you could ea$ily afford to be generous in supporting those who needed the money for basic necessities.
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Sorry no it wasn't the money that changed my vote. The money never changed, slightly but what really swayed my vote is some of the LOA's that were finally put in writing instead of just hearing gossip about it.

Basic necessities don't mean much when your jobs are being sold overseas by other branches of the same company willing to do it for less. Think pan-am flight attendants that were hired in europe and eventually were working in the states for far less money than their american counterparts.

I don't need to be the hero. I do need to be able to look myself in the face in the mirror be it tomorrow or 14 years from now.

Off to bed.. .tough to see the sun set and rise in the same flight. Cheerio
 
Fozzy said:
Hate to say it, but I think she is right.
:erm:
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Kudos to you Fozzy for being "big enough" to acknowledge that....:)
Have you considered becoming an instructor?
I know the perfect student for you if you don't mind bleating....;)

Off to double check a certain somebilly's :p post.
I could have sworn it mentioned money. ..:rolleyes:
 
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Looks like my experience "financially speaking" has proven that there is always something left on the table. You can either take the first offer or you can keep going till you get the package that is wanted.
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I'll save you the time. When i mention "financially speaking" I don't think in terms of just money. I think in a much broader picture longevity, scope, benefits issues like that. There is a cost/benefit to all those issues.

I'm sure we could all get paid a million bucks if we just gave everything up except a pay.

Back to my nap.... I'm done with this thread.

Cheerio
 
Scope is definitely important; that's why many NJ pilots were sold on the IBB proposal as soon as they saw Section 30. All were relieved to find that the benefits were carried over. (That's one area that NJA gets right on their own). I think the majority of the NJ pilots now realize that the TA is a very good deal overall and that the negotiators did a good job of balancing the needs and wants of the pilot group. After all, most understand that you can't expect to get something for nothing. You have to figure that the company entered into IBB with goals of their own.

Speaking of sleeping...;) it's good to see the pilots wake up in plenty of time to cast their vote in favor of a proposal that offers improved job security, increased pay, and enhanced career opportunities. My thanks to all who are viewing IBB with an open mind and giving your leadership/volunteers the vote of confidence they have earned-- many times over.
Sincerely,
Netjetwife
 
netjetwife said:
Speaking of sleeping...;) it's good to see the pilots wake up in plenty of time to cast their vote in favor of a proposal that offers improved job security, increased pay, and enhanced career opportunities. My thanks to all who are viewing IBB with an open mind and giving your leadership/volunteers the vote of confidence they have earned-- many times over.
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It really is interesting how you paint people here, NJW. If one casts his vote in favor of the proposal, he is "awakened?" So if he votes no, he is what? Ignorant? Asleep? If he votes yes, he has an open mind. If he votes no, he is close-minded? Interesting.

The funny thing is, the most avid yes-voters on our union board are the ones who most obviously have not read the whole proposal. Most of them read 13 and 27 and decided, "Yep, good enough for me!" :rolleyes: Oh yeah, open-minded all right.
 
Grumpy, I noticed that you used the rolling-eyes smiley to indicate your frustration, sarcasm, etc. Likewise, I prefaced my statements with the winking-eye smiley (which I use frequently) to indicate that I am teasing. If you'll notice, I also make liberal use of the pink smiley face. Too bad there isn't a "tongue-in-cheek" which would be even better. Yes, I was using very broad generalizations, but it was done half in jest, and I was relying on the board members to "read" the appropriate mood indicated. I do believe that the proposal offers the advantages I listed, but I also realize that pilots reading the entire document may still decide they prefer the CBA and don't mind taking a chance in 2010.

I believe the vast majority will put a lot of thought into weighing the options--regardless of their ultimate decision. Having an open mind means that you considered both sides of an issue. It is not exclusive to one viewpoint and neither is appreciation. I have read the posts which thank the IBB team for their hard work and dedication. They came from yes voters, no voters and those still undecided. I enjoyed reading every one of them, regardless of the poster's viewpoint.

Like others, I've been pleased that many more people have been on the NJ board lately reading and/or debating a proposal which could affect all of us. For awhile there, things were so quiet that I was concerned the pilot group was complacent and in danger of becoming apathetic again. Hence the sleeping analogy. (Seriously) It is good to see many re-engaging--regardless of how they vote. (Those who don't appreciate my brand of wit should stop here).

I would like to see the proposal pass, so naturally ;) I'm going to suggest that those tuning back in should vote yes...:p May the best recruiter win...:D
 
Ultra Grump said:
The funny thing is, the most avid yes-voters on our union board are the ones who most obviously have not read the whole proposal. Most of them read 13 and 27 and decided, "Yep, good enough for me!" :rolleyes: Oh yeah, open-minded all right.
Click to expand...

It hasn't been obvious to me. I give people the benefit of the doubt until they give me just cause not to. I also realize they there is a broad range of comprehension and a person can report --truthfully--that they read the entire document yet still miss something, get it wrong, etc Some retain information well, others don't-- so honest mistakes can happen.

I think it is possible that the badly underpaid pilots (as the FOs still are) are so in need of the pay raise that they had already resigned themselves to compromising, if need be, on issues like scheduling and PTO. They know that SU wouldn't cave in on critical things like scope and health benefits so they may feel comfortable following the lead of the EBoard, MEC, and IBB negotiators that have unanimously endorsed the proposal. That said, I think it's presumptuous to assume that pilots didn't read all of the document just because they discuss the sections that affect them the most in a personal way. After all, the proposal just got mailed out so they have plenty of time still to read every word before they mark the ballot.

UG, just because you go by the name of Grump, doesn't mean you always have to act like one...:p
 
Ultra Grump said:
It really is interesting how you paint people here, NJW. If one casts his vote in favor of the proposal, he is "awakened?" So if he votes no, he is what? Ignorant? Asleep? If he votes yes, he has an open mind. If he votes no, he is close-minded? Interesting.

The funny thing is, the most avid yes-voters on our union board are the ones who most obviously have not read the whole proposal. Most of them read 13 and 27 and decided, "Yep, good enough for me!" :rolleyes: Oh yeah, open-minded all right.
Click to expand...

No sarcasm intended. I asume you are voting no. I am very curious which areas are swaying your vote. I have read the IBB but would like to go over areas that others are having issue with to make sure I didn't miss something. Thanks
 
netjetwife said:
After all, the proposal just got mailed out so they have plenty of time still to read every word before they mark the ballot.
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That's another funny thing. We'll get the ballots before we get the proposal, and LONG before we get the interpretive transcripts. I'd be willing to bet that there are a LOT of folks who will mark and mail their ballots before they have all the documents required to make a truly informed decision. And that applies to both yes and no voters.
 
captain dad said:
No sarcasm intended. I asume you are voting no. I am very curious which areas are swaying your vote. I have read the IBB but would like to go over areas that others are having issue with to make sure I didn't miss something. Thanks
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You assume wrong. I am currently undecided. My biggest issue is with the duration, along with numerous smaller issues. But I, unlike many, am waiting to read ALL the documents before making my final decision.
 
Ultra Grump said:
That's another funny thing. We'll get the ballots before we get the proposal, and LONG before we get the interpretive transcripts. I'd be willing to bet that there are a LOT of folks who will mark and mail their ballots before they have all the documents required to make a truly informed decision. And that applies to both yes and no voters.
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Talk about a rush to vote, the transition language isn't finished, transcipts aren't finished, You have to ask yourself??????What's the hurry???????Holiday season, peace amoung the pilot group 92% like the contract we have, says the survey. Everyone is so eager to wrap this up, why, why isn't everything done if the company is so happy????? What am I missing?

Maybe we need to delay this vote until after the holidays, be sure things are right.
 
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