NJA TA...What's your bet?

[gunfyter]

Now that's funny.

Probably going to have to does not equal definitely voting no.


I will be surprised to see too many people bid the new 18 day schedule. I kinda like to see it flop.

 

[netjetwife]

....100 percent pass if NJW had her way. 62 to 68% pass is my over under.

I don't recall asking you to be my spokesman, Diesel... but thanks for pointing out that I hadn't posted my guesstimate yet... While 100% agreement would be an amazing show of cohesion in a group so large, it is totally unrealistic. Therefore my optimistic, but possible, guess is low 80s. I think that in the end most will realize that the proposal does a good job --overall--of moving the pilot group forward and pulling FO wages up to a decent salary.

Those who complain that the FOs and/or post-rats are "whining" made very similar posts during the pre CBA contract battle. At that time it was called standing up for one's self, and for the frac industry in general. Those pilots who didn't demand better were told that they have no self-worth. Now a new group of NJ FOs are advocating a change for the very same reasons and should be commended according to the prevailing logic during the contract battle.

Working to raise sub par wages is the right thing to -- irrespective of when the fight takes place. Apparently, the EBoard, the MEC and the Union Training Committee Chairman all agree, judging by their unanimous endorsements of the IBB proposal. Many in that group worked on the present CBA. Obviously they understand the Union's objectives and have experience working with management to strike a bargain the pilots will find acceptable. Given their track record, an endorsement will carry lots of clout--at least 80% one would think.

 

[its me]

I think the highest percentage I've seen so far is 82% which is very optomistic, not willing to look back to see if it's correct. The sad part of all this is, according to the wilson research survey, 92% liked the contract as is.

 

[netjetwife]

Liking the contract "as is" was in comparison to what it previously had been, not what it possibly could be.

 

[its me]

netjetwife,

I've been a lurker on this board for the better part of 9 years under different names. I've watched and learned but this issue has me concerned, much more than our previous fight after the fab 5 left us high and dry. "what could possibly be", seems a bit risky when we're only 2 years into a 5 year contract and it appears we are already giving back. Granted, I've never been given a peek at the big picture but I would certainly give a little bit for just a glimpse. I know there's something brewing, I just hate voting on something not knowing what it is. It seems there are some behind the door deals being made. Just my opinion.

 

[netjetwife]

The idea of "giving back" is subjective and so is the perception of risk. Those involved with IBB report that positive progress was made--on the whole. It's not realistic that the pilots would get everything their own way in IBB. One has to compromise unless the other side has no interests at all. Knowing that was not the case, it looks like the final deal was quite fair.

I think the big picture changes frequently so you'd need more than a glimpse to stay current... Many just make educated guesses and even those who are in charge of drawing the big picture have to deal with their own share of uncertainties. After all, the final outcome won't be known until the last ballot has been counted. To my way of thinking, that makes every NJ pilot a part of the picture--a mosaic if you will.

I understand your concern is higher now. Last time the pilots voted there was a common "enemy", but this time the pilots are pitted against each other as different interest groups compete for their ideal of the better contract. A bit unsettling for sure.

As to speculation about behind the door deals, I find the idea of it intriguing and promising. Those following along have heard talk/rumors that some of the NJ pilots may want to leave Teamsters and that there could be an integration with NJI sooner, rather than later. I don't see either possibility as a negative event. In trying to connect the dots, speculated swaps (if true) can help explain much of the IBB proposal, especially the duration. I think it's important not to lose sight of the fact that IF deals were made then that means that both sides had achieved a new level of trust and cooperation not previously obtained. Surely that bodes well for all NJA employees.

I think the NJ pilots should trust their SU leaders (who haven't disappointed them so far) and give positive reinforcement to a process that seeks fair solutions arrived at respectfully and in a reasonable time frame. A vote of confidence now will help to establish a new way of doing business that benefits all involved. In my opinion, by far the greater risk would be in turning your back on those (from both sides) who have gone to considerable effort to increase the job security and bring improvements to the overall pilot group you're a member of. Best of luck with your decision making process, IM.
Netjetwife

 

[Archie Bunker]

I am the first one to agree that seniority has privelages and not once have I compained about the commute or pay. Let me ask all of you this. When do us newbees earn, yes I said EARN the right to have a voice???? Is it 1 year, 2 years, 3, 4 when???? I'm guessing NEVER because we weren't here to fight the fight with you. Don't get me wrong. It is greatly appreciated and I extend my thanks to those that had the guts to stand up and fight. If I was working at NJA at the time I'd be fighting right alongside you. But man, the more I read the more I think
that some, NOT ALL of the pre-rats have a superiority complex. I try to be respectful as I can but it is disappointing to know how soon some of you may have forgotten what it was like when you started. How quickly one forgets.
It seems that all this condescending patroninzing is getting on OUR nerves. Most of you guys have the same stock answer, "Now, you go be good little ugly red headed stepchhildren locked in the basement and we'll let you know when you can come on up and get something to eat you little post-rat. Afterall you knew whatchy'all got yourselves into!" (banjo playing deliverence in the background)

Great post Hoppy! It's about time you guys got paid a decent wage, and were able to have the same home basing options as the more senior pilots there. Good luck with your vote.

 

[FL450]

I"m a 14 year class 4 guy and I have to be honest when I say I"m just not feelin the love.

Our leadership going into this IBB stated and RE-stated how important it was to secure higher, more competitve salaries for first officers and the most senior captains. The first officers scored big.

The 14 year+ guys were not just overlooked, we were sacrificed. I understand business and demographics, but understandably this feels like a really hard punch to the gut considering how long we long haulers have been waiting for this job to "pay off". My no vote really won't matter much considering the large amount of people this proposal will benefit. The hardest thing for me right now is trying to figure out how I explain to my family that "daddy isn't going to make the money he thought he was in the 2005 contract". I guess I shouldnt have bought the big house and put my kids in private school when this 5 year contract turned into a 2 year contract. I appreciate the hard work of all involved, I'm just really dissapointed.

Most senior pilots are not in a Class IV. No openings in that Class any time soon. When they finally get to bid it, starting salary would end up being 120K as they would start in year 1 and not be able to hold the Reserve. So the longer you're here and NOT in a Class IV, the worse it gets. Not so good for most.

 

[acaTerry]

True BUT... the new payscale is nicer than the old one too.

Give n take.

Win-win.

IBB.

Yeah, but would just giving us even 2 H days have hurt anything? I don't think so. I mean come on, the 8 day tour was enough of a win for them in itself.

 

[CA1900]

I believe once the Preferential Bid System gets built and brought on-line, you'll get the benefits of H-days plus a whole lot more. (The ability to strategically place H-day pairs so as to work fewer than 18 days will go away, yes. But you'll still be able to bid around days you want off.)