NJA TA in principal reached!!!

[Diesel]

Come on man. You know those rules were written for companies, not crews. That's why there are no limitations under part 91.

I disagree. Every rest rule the FAA has made has been due to companies taking the same approach as ours.

Unfortunately we will have to have an accident to fix our qol because our union wants to put the onerous on the pilots and the company agrees.

Let's just hope it happens early on in the 10 year term of this "industry leading" contract.

 

[tomgoodman]

Work rules are in place to protect us from ourselves. Pilots do a really crappy job of saying no.

In addition, those rules protect us from our fellow pilots. Working 100 hours per month might seem to bring in more money, but everybody senior to you can also work 100 hours, and that may delay your advancement by years. Over a career, that could cost you more money than you gained, in addition to the QOL penalty.

 

[fischman]

I disagree. Every rest rule the FAA has made has been due to companies taking the same approach as ours.

Unfortunately we will have to have an accident to fix our qol because our union wants to put the onerous on the pilots and the company agrees.

Let's just hope it happens early on in the 10 year term of this "industry leading" contract.

I don't understand what you are disagreeing with?

I'm stating the FAA put rest rules in to prevent companies from working us 24/7. A private pilot operating under 91 can fly as much as they want.

The company under Santulli implemented the no-fault fatigue policy which was memorialized in the 2005 CBA and has been in the 2007 and in the new TA.

I'm also stating that if you are flying 80 hours a week and 4-5 legs a day, it's only because you are letting them and are being melodramatic.

Please explain where I'm incorrect.

 

[NJAowner]

Doesn't what happens in your "time off" affect fatigue as well? I am not saying it should be regulated, but doesn't that flying or other activities happen in the "7 off" have quite bit of influence not the 7 "on days"?

 

[Diesel]

I don't understand what you are disagreeing with?

I'm stating the FAA put rest rules in to prevent companies from working us 24/7. A private pilot operating under 91 can fly as much as they want.

The company under Santulli implemented the no-fault fatigue policy which was memorialized in the 2005 CBA and has been in the 2007 and in the new TA.

I'm also stating that if you are flying 80 hours a week and 4-5 legs a day, it's only because you are letting them and are being melodramatic.

Please explain where I'm incorrect.

And my point is 80 hours a week and 4-5 legs a day shouldn't be the goal of scheduling with the only relief valve is the pilot saying no.

Better work rules should have been negotiated where a 14 hour day is the exception not the rule.

 

[Diesel]

Doesn't what happens in your "time off" affect fatigue as well? I am not saying it should be regulated, but doesn't that flying or other activities happen in the "7 off" have quite bit of influence not the 7 "on days"?

Sure it does like having a new born at home and not sleeping for the week. Then rolling right into doing long haul at night. Good thing you're used to being up at night lol.

 

[Diesel]

Thinking more about this....

The fatigue policy should be the last thing used. Any fatigue should have the company immediately meet and figure out why the crewmember had to fatigue and what they can do better to keep a crewmember from having to pull the ultimate plug for it to happen.

Instead our fatigue policy is used by the union and the company as the pressure relief valve. Both parties have their head in the sand regarding it and the reality of what a pilot is. A type A person that will try and get the job done no matter what is the issue in front of them. Many laws have been written in blood because of this.

This at one point in my career here will be pointed at as part of the cause of whatever accident will happen. Blame will probably be placed at the feet of the pilots since they were "given all the tools available."

Enjoy 10 years of "hey you can always fatigue" for every issue possible. Hotels, airline travel, scheduling whims. The list goes on.

 

[gunfyter]

FAR 117 guidelines would have been nice in the TA

But I use them anyway

 

[fischman]

Doesn't what happens in your "time off" affect fatigue as well? I am not saying it should be regulated, but doesn't that flying or other activities happen in the "7 off" have quite bit of influence not the 7 "on days"?

Of course. And any contract flying we may do on our "off" time has to be reported to the company. This doesn't include any pleasure flying, but flying when we're earning extra money.

Personally, I have never done any contract work in my off time and only know a handful of pilots who do. I want the protections of a union just in case I do something stupid. For example, if I accidentally have an incursion or an incident, I want to be able to have the protections of ASAP which wouldn't happen flying outside of the company.

 

[imacdog]

Doesn't what happens in your "time off" affect fatigue as well? I am not saying it should be regulated, but doesn't that flying or other activities happen in the "7 off" have quite bit of influence not the 7 "on days"?

Of course. But no matter how refreshed you are at the beginning of the week, it doesn't take too many 4-5 leg, 14 hour days to be right back in the dumps again.