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NJA TA for new FO's

208starcheck

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FYI
Don't get me wrong I think this is as good as it's going to get given the hole we were in but before you get your hopes up about coming to NJA...

New FO's will have to live in one of five cities: CMH, DAL, LAX, PBI, and TEB.

"All crewmembers hired after ratification of this Agreement shall report to a Domicile (or satellite airport when applicable) as directed by the Company, until such time as the crewmember is eligible to use a Home Base Airport. New hire Crewmembers must be informed no later than the official offer of employment which Domicile the Company will require each new hire to report for duty prior to employment"

"The Company may limit Crewmember participation in the Home Base Airport system to thirty (30) percent of the total number of Crewmembers on the most current seniority list..."

The legal speak does go on a little furture but those are the basics. I have a couple friends that really wanted to come over but not now. The union leadership did a superb job overall. This is the only part I personally didn't like. I guess that makes for a 99% approval rating from me.

Fly safe.
 
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Hawkered

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If you get hired at Cathay Pacific, you have to do training in Australia, then move to and live in Hong Kong! No shortage of applicants.
 

h25b

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Hawkered said:
If you get hired at Cathay Pacific, you have to do training in Australia, then move to and live in Hong Kong! No shortage of applicants.

You're reaching on this one....

At Cathay Pacific a 5 yr. F.O. probably makes more than 47K... Why can't you just admit that the junior and future F.O.'s got hosed ??? The scales were one thing, but taking away the gateways for these guys was low.

Now that this part of the TA has come out it's obvious that the bump in pay that the TA offers will will be spent trying to live in one of these gateways. Other than CMH they are all pretty expensive places to live.
 

Hawkered

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So you've been to Hong Kong? Did you land at Chep Lap Kok, or did you do the old checkerboard approach? So you've seen the smog, the smell, the congestion...I thought not.

Do you know hat the cost of housing is there? No, the CX housing allownce doesn't come close. Do you know what it costs to educate a small child on Discovery Bay?

Maybe you should do some research before your next post?
 

h25b

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Hawkered said:
So you've been to Hong Kong? Did you land at Chep Lap Kok, or did you do the old checkerboard approach? So you've seen the smog, the smell, the congestion...I thought not.

Do you know hat the cost of housing is there? No, the CX housing allownce doesn't come close. Do you know what it costs to educate a small child on Discovery Bay?

Maybe you should do some research before your next post?

My point, which you obviously can't see with your rose colored glasses is the fact that your reference to Cathay has nothing to do with the arguement. And where that's concerned you still can't answer the main question. Do you really think the new guys made out on this TA ???

We already understand how excited you are about this TA, but then again you are probably going to get a retro check and a 50% raise. Heck, you were probably doing just fine without the new TA...

Just tell us all your thoughts on how the junior guys got screwed. Tell us all your justification... I supposes you'll just put forth the old union line, "we'll fight that one next contract..." Yeah right... :rolleyes:

The more that comes out the more obvious it is what happened... RTS knows full well that upgrades will be slowing down (another 2000+ pilots ??? what a joke...) so he did the old bait and switch..

Now this is where I don't have a clue. How many F.O.'s are on bypass pay ??? In other words, how many extra Capt.'s are there ???

Congratulations for visiting Hong Kong.. We're all impressed... But hey, don't take it from me... Take it from one of the negotiators...

Grizz said:
That being said, we have a problem at NetJets due to the high incidence of bypass F/Os. 98% of the pilots employed here right now is either a Captain or on bypass pay. When you go into negotiations, the goal is to take care of the membership that is voting for the contract. Since the F/O payscale is crappy at years 4 & 5, I expect we'll revist that issue in 4 years. It might be sooner than that if NetJets starts seeing a very high churn rate amongst F/Os.

My advice to anyone looking at NetJets is to make sure you can live on F/O salary because upgrades are going to be dang scarce for the next few years while all the bypass guys try to get on full Captain's pay. You might also want to make sure you can afford to live in one of the 5 domiciles. If the answer to either question is no, hold off coming here.
 
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Grizz

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My personal opinion is that this Domicile thing isn't going to work for them and that NetJets will come to us asking for some relief within 18 months. That's just my opinion though.
 

On Your Six

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Whatever you do, avoid the LAX base if possible - as we have seen with recent posts, it is difficult to live on $47K (let alone $100K) in the LA area...
 

squonk

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h25b:

At Cathay Pacific a 5 yr. F.O. probably makes more than 47K... Why can't you just admit that the junior and future F.O.'s got hosed ??? The scales were one thing, but taking away the gateways for these guys was low.

While I agree that F/O pay is low, you have to remember that right now 98% of us are four stripers or getting 4 stripe pay. That I'm sure played into this.

The Gateway issue looks to be an amalgam of the old TA and the new. I'm with Grizz, I don't see any advantages for the company on this without the A and B scale from the old TA.
 

h25b

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squonk said:
h25b:



While I agree that F/O pay is low, you have to remember that right now 98% of us are four stripers or getting 4 stripe pay. That I'm sure played into this.

The Gateway issue looks to be an amalgam of the old TA and the new. I'm with Grizz, I don't see any advantages for the company on this without the A and B scale from the old TA.

Why can't you understand that quick upgrades WILL NOT LAST FOREVER !!!!! In fact they are already coming to an end...

Unbelievable how no one can get that through their heads. That fundemental screwed-up logic is no excuse and by that you just created another generation of disgruntled NetJets pilots. Just what the crew lounges of Signature needed... Thanks alot. I for one was kind of looking forward to not having to hear you guys whine...:(

I doubt you'll hear any new junior guys saying, "my union speaks for me!!!"

And if you don't see any advantages, well, you must be smarter than Warren or Richard... I know I'm not... This TA is nothing close to what you all were proclaiming over the last few months. How many of you were on here telling us that the gateways weren't negotiable ??? I can answer that, MORE THAN A FEW...
 
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Hawkered

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H25B

Are you really a line pilot for an established operator, or are you just managing some fly by night outfit in the office?

We will need a minimum of 5,000 pilots on the seniority list by the end of this decade! Take into account a captain has to be removed from the training cycle to accomplish six month and 299 checks and you can see we need more captains than first officers.

Hey man, I'm not trying to upset anyone here but this anti-NJA dribble is starting to piss me off from you guys.

We didn't sell anyone out. We made choices...business choices. Some people will like it, others won't. I don't know why the company does things the way they do sometimes, same could be said for the union. Hey, that's life!

Listen, you've got 4,500 hours or so. Sounds like you're torn about your next step. The housing market is still quite reasonable in Columbus, and the OSU games can be a lot of fun. How 'bout you negotiate yourself CMH in your interview and come on board?

You might just like it. The crew food ain't bad!
 

h25b

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Hawkered said:
We will need a minimum of 5,000 pilots on the seniority list by the end of this decade! Take into account a captain has to be removed from the training cycle to accomplish six month and 299 checks and you can see we need more captains than first officers.

Hey man, I'm not trying to upset anyone here but this anti-NJA dribble is starting to piss me off from you guys.

Not trying to pi$$ you off. I really want to know the answer... Like I said on another thread, it's been purely morbid curiosity regarding my interests in this discussion. I was quietly hoping this might be the first time where the newbies didn't get hosed and there lies my only disgust. You all had an opportunity to break the mold and do something special. The junior side of the seniority list had the most to gain and they got the most taken away in terms of the gateways...

This board isn't for telling each other what we want to hear.
 
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NJA Capt

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h25b said:
Why can't you understand that quick upgrades WILL NOT LAST FOREVER !!!!! In fact they are already coming to an end...
Not sure what gave you this impression. Capt bids have been picking UP in the last few months. As a matter of fact, 30 PIC bids were awarded last month and another 30+ are open currently.

The 5000 pilot number is one the company floated years ago. When you look at the outstanding aircraft orders you can see that we will have to hire another 2000+ pilots. We have just started building the G200, C680 and 400XP fleets. 100 copies of each, plus 100 G150s.

As far as the SICs: They are all grandfathered into the HBAs.
 

be-400xpdriver

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NJA Capt said:
Not sure what gave you this impression. Capt bids have been picking UP in the last few months. As a matter of fact, 30 PIC bids were awarded last month and another 30+ are open currently.

The 5000 pilot number is one the company floated years ago. When you look at the outstanding aircraft orders you can see that we will have to hire another 2000+ pilots. We have just started building the G200, C680 and 400XP fleets. 100 copies of each, plus 100 G150s.

As far as the SICs: They are all grandfathered into the HBAs.

Don't forget 50 orders with 50 options for the Hawker Horizon.
 

208starcheck

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I agree with Grizz. I guess that is why I'm not too worried about it. There is no way they can get enough pilots with only those 5 cities.
 
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ThisistheDream

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are there any 4 on 3 off schedules at NJA? also the idea that there will be 5000 plus pilots on property is not guarenteed ..DAL and UAL where supposed to have 15,000 pilots each and we know what happend to that
 

Spooky 1

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208starcheck said:
FYI
Don't get me wrong I think this is as good as it's going to get given the hole we were in but before you get your hopes up about coming to NJA...

New FO's will have to live in one of five cities: CMH, DAL, LAX, PBI, and TEB.

"All crewmembers hired after ratification of this Agreement shall report to a Domicile (or satellite airport when applicable) as directed by the Company, until such time as the crewmember is eligible to use a Home Base Airport. New hire Crewmembers must be informed no later than the official offer of employment which Domicile the Company will require each new hire to report for duty prior to employment"

"The Company may limit Crewmember participation in the Home Base Airport system to thirty (30) percent of the total number of Crewmembers on the most current seniority list..."

The legal speak does go on a little furture but those are the basics. I have a couple friends that really wanted to come over but not now. The union leadership did a superb job overall. This is the only part I personally didn't like. I guess that makes for a 99% approval rating from me.

Fly safe.

Does that mean that these new pilots will actually have to live in one of those cities, or can they commute to say LAX from LAS?
 

AA717driver

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Hawkered--You are wrong about Cathay. You only have to live in HKG for a couple of years if you go to the pax fleet. On the freighter, you can live in a variety of places right off the bat.

Even on the pax fleet, after a couple of years in HKG you can bid out to a domicile in your home country (if there is one). A good friend of mine is commuting to JFK from MCO.

And, no, I didn't get a chance to do the checkerboard approach. Pity.TC

P.S.--In the future, I'll urge my company to fly into Shenzhen. HKG is a pain in the butt.TC
 

StarHustler

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The crew base issue is a big concern to me. I was getting all set to send in my stuff but I live near CLT (with family and owned home) and without that option it becomes a no deal for me to move.
 

h25b

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You don't negotiate based on how many airplanes management is promising you will be on the property...

The aircraft on order can change dramatically. Boy I've never heard of an aircraft order being cancelled before ...:rolleyes:
 

Hawkered

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AA717

Yeah, the freight carrier is ASL, or Air Service Leasing. It's still a division of the Swire Group but is actually run on a different certificate. The wage disparity was even worse back in 1999, so I only considered the pax side. As you know, there are no labor laws in Hong Kong and much has changed in the "fragrant harbour".

You're a whole bunch better off here!
 
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