NJA TA for new FO's

[Nightmare67]

If you don't like the domiciles a company has and/or are unwilling to commute to those domiciles, DON'T APPLY!

Is it that difficult to understand?

Our negotiating group didn't spend our bargaining dollars on this because its not our problem. Its management's problem. When they see that raising the 1st year pay, removing the training contracts and equipment locks was not enough to entice people to come here, they will change the domicile policy.

Its a seniority based system. Get the job, move if you have to, and in a few years, you will have the benefit of the home base airport. You'll be making a good salary with great benefits while being off almost 200 days a year without taking any sick days!

BTW, I believe the company pays moving expenses...I'll have to double check if it applies to newhires.

 

[Terry Hunter]

The crew base issue is a big concern to me. I was getting all set to send in my stuff but I live near CLT (with family and owned home) and without that option it becomes a no deal for me to move.

I'm in the same boat as StarHustler. I was hoping to apply soon, and I live in the MSP area (a current gateway). With family in the area, a home we love, and a small business, we cannot relocate. I would be willing to commute, but I can't afford full price tickets. Congrats on your raises - they look quite attractive (along with the work rules & benefits) from where I stand.

 

[SAEflyer]

Can you commute to one of those 5 cities? Do you get to choose which city?

 

[T-REX]

SAE beat me to it.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Can you commute? I don't know - can NJA'ers jumpseat or write passes on any airlines? (I don't know).

I understand that one knows what they are getting into when they apply, and are offered a job that is set in a particular city. But - with most regionals, this attracts applicants because one can commute.

 

[T-REX]

Can you commute? I don't know - can NJA'ers jumpseat or write passes on any airlines? (I don't know).

I understand that one knows what they are getting into when they apply, and are offered a job that is set in a particular city. But - with most regionals, this attracts applicants because one can commute.

Do you get to choose your base city?? IfI live in TEB (for example) would I get assigned a different base or can you live in any of the 5 domiciles?

Basically whose choice in domiciles? Yours or theirs? Thanks again.

 

[Nightmare67]

Commuting to domiciles...I'll do my best to explain what I have read in the TA.

The language in the TA state that the company will designate which domicile and offer it to the newhire. Now, this sounds alittle stupid to me but its their game. I dont see how they would spend the money to have a person flown to CMH for an interview, put up in a hotel then offer a west coast guy TEB as a domicile! But thats how its written now.

As far as commuting, the TA states newhires will "REPORT" to one of five domiciles designated by the company. So, since you will have received your duty brief the day prior to your first day on, It would be easy to plan your commute to be in position at your show time. Keep in mind though, we have a "Show at Home" brief. You will see it during IOE if they dont have an IOE IP for you. This would require you to pay for a hotel since a show at home requires you to be able to leave thirty minutes after they get you a duty assignment.

Hope this helps.

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

Please Clarify

Could someone please explain this a little more fully? If I start at Netjets in November and want MDW as my gateway, is there anyway this can be taken away from me when the TA is ratified? Also "Home Basing" is only for 30% of the senority list of those people hired before the ratified TA?

Everything else I've seen with the TA looks great. I just want to make sure that if I start now I can have MDW. keep it, and in the future be "Home Based" in a smaller airport. Also how is the home basing defined? I heard something like the has to be at least a few flights before 8am to select bases and a few arriving back at the home base after 10pm or something to that extent.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

If you are hired before the ratification date you will be able to use "Home Basing". You will be able to stay on the home basing program forever. (or at least till the next contract)

I believe since it sounds like you have already been offered a job that you will not have to use a domicile, even if you start work after ratification. Could be wrong on that.

Ratification date estimated as Nov 21. When do you start?

The 30% is a figure for down the road. It does not limit participation by existing NJA pilots. It will apply in the future after significant growth has dwindled the existing pilots down to a minority of the workforce at which point the "new guys" will start to have access to home basing.

 

[Terry Hunter]

Commuting to domiciles...I'll do my best to explain what I have read in the TA.

...

As far as commuting, the TA states newhires will "REPORT" to one of five domiciles designated by the company. So, since you will have received your duty brief the day prior to your first day on, It would be easy to plan your commute to be in position at your show time. Keep in mind though, we have a "Show at Home" brief. You will see it during IOE if they dont have an IOE IP for you. This would require you to pay for a hotel since a show at home requires you to be able to leave thirty minutes after they get you a duty assignment.

Hope this helps.

Yes, this is a good start, thank you for your response.

This sounds similar to commuting for a regional job, however with a regional, I can use passes for standby travel on a multitude of airlines, and also Jumpseat. Are these options that you have? Because other than moving, the only way one could commute is to buy full fare tickets.

Orbitz, here I come, ahha.

 

[Twotter76]

I am not clear on when exactly you would qualify as a new hire to use the hba. I get that as a newhire I would be stuck with the 5 cities but when could I transition to the hba agreement or is it not possible? Can someone clarify this for me - I have been holding on to the app for the last 6 months and will send it in tomorrow if I can be based in DEN. I don't suppose it is realistic to be on propetry before ratification if you haven't interviewed yet (did get the app though)?

 

[Nightmare67]

Yes, this is a good start, thank you for your response.

This sounds similar to commuting for a regional job, however with a regional, I can use passes for standby travel on a multitude of airlines, and also Jumpseat. Are these options that you have? Because other than moving, the only way one could commute is to buy full fare tickets.

Orbitz, here I come, ahha.

The short answer is No. Some of our guys have had limited success jumpseating with SWA and ATA. I would not count on it though. If you really are considering commuting on your own dime, Id say forget it! We get shows well before 0500. You'd be spending a lot of cash on tickets and hotels. What if your home on your last day off and at 1800 get a brief to show at the FBO at 0400?
Good luck Brother

 

[Nightmare67]

I am not clear on when exactly you would qualify as a new hire to use the hba. I get that as a newhire I would be stuck with the 5 cities but when could I transition to the hba agreement or is it not possible? Can someone clarify this for me - I have been holding on to the app for the last 6 months and will send it in tomorrow if I can be based in DEN. I don't suppose it is realistic to be on property before ratification if you haven't interviewed yet (did get the app though)?

As far as I know...the info on when you would become eligible for HBA is not out yet.

If you have a friend at NutJets, you might have a chance at an interview and offer prior to ratification...that is, if the company is even considering interviewing prior to that date. You see, the company is CONVINCED that pilots at the five RCA is the answer to all their problems. They would rather wait and stick you at an RCA.

Probably not what you wan to hear but I think its pretty accurate.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Will the new domiciles be based on seniority or how it was before with gateway cities?

 

[Lear70]

If you don't like the domiciles a company has and/or are unwilling to commute to those domiciles, DON'T APPLY!

Is it that difficult to understand?

Our negotiating group didn't spend our bargaining dollars on this because its not our problem.

And there, ladies and gentlemen, is all the information you need.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why you think the way you do.

The vast MAJORITY of pilots in ANY portion of this industry will NEVER negotiate for the FUTURE... only the PRESENT employees' bottom line; this is how it's always been; this is how it will always be, and why the industry continues to spiral downward.

Its management's problem. When they see that raising the 1st year pay, removing the training contracts and equipment locks was not enough to entice people to come here, they will change the domicile policy.

Unlikely. Flexjet has proven that hub basing in a few specific domiciles saves hundreds of thousands of $$$ each and every year over a home-based system. Believe me, I went to work for Flexjet back when it WAS a home-based system and, through a friend in management, read the financials as they changed the system.

No mattery how hard it becomes to hire quality personnel, with NWA and DAL about to furlough hundreds and thousands more with 1,500 to 2,000 total time coming up the ranks, the hundreds of thousands of dollars saved will NOT override any hiring concerns.

It's too bad really, many extremely qualified and talented people would be willing to come your way. I find it "interesting" how many of your senior Captains complain about "disgruntled" airline personnel that are hired yet, as someone else already deduced, your negotiating committee just set up the next generation of "disgruntled pilots", forced to move somewhere they didn't want to rather than face the option of having no job.

Good luck - you're gonna need it! :bomb:

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I don't think the gateway thing is an issue at all. With FltOps changing their policy too, none of the fractionals will have home basing, so it's industry standard.

It sucks for me, because I'd like to go to a fractional that had home basing. Currently, none of the fractionals will work for me at all, because of their gateway situation.

I think the only way it hurts them is when potential pilots of theirs go to a regional instead because they can commute.

CLiff
YIP

 

[Lear70]

Hey Cliff, I miss the Monica Belucci avatar - Danika is cute, but bring back the hotness!

 

[AA717driver]

AA717

Yeah, the freight carrier is ASL, or Air Service Leasing. It's still a division of the Swire Group but is actually run on a different certificate. The wage disparity was even worse back in 1999, so I only considered the pax side. As you know, there are no labor laws in Hong Kong and much has changed in the "fragrant harbour".

You're a whole bunch better off here!

Gotcha. Sorry, I've been off my medication today--my posts reflect that...

Lear70--You are absolutely right about the union negotiating for CURRENT members. Let the company figure out if they can hire people without home basing--it's THEIR problem.

Lots of companies have contracts that aren't very attractive to newhires. If they don't like it, they can work elsewhere. Or, go to work there and try to change it.TC

 

[Twotter76]

As far as I know...the info on when you would become eligible for HBA is not out yet.

If you have a friend at NutJets, you might have a chance at an interview and offer prior to ratification...

snip....

Thanks that what I was looking for.

 

[BrnJetFuel]

I think the only way it hurts them is when potential pilots of theirs go to a regional instead because they can commute.

CLiff
YIP

We are hoping that this issue and the low F/O pay contributes to fewer people wanting to work here. I'm sure it figured into the Union's negotiators plan as well. Management will have to loosen the language and/or pay more to draw the numbers they need if not enough people show up. Unfortunately pilots typically are their own worst enemy and way too many are willing to sell their souls for the chance to fly. It perpetuates low wages for much of this industry. If you could convince the hundreds at MESA and other places to not take a job offer here, you would see Home basing for everyone and high wages for F/O's. Too much weak supply to fill the little demand.