NJA/NJI Question

[ex-nutjeter]

And don't forget about the new Class 4 Cap't pay scale, it should boost all of NJI's cap't.s pay way up, that too was IBT 1108

 

[WillFlyFoCookie]

I really believe that your Union is what you make of it. Get involved and contribute as much as you can.

IBT 1108 seems to me to have a lot of really good things going on. Strong, Fair leaders taking active roles in the lives of the average members and communicating well. Just reading through the TA I must admit that I am very impressed. I find myself amazed at many of the things they successfully achieved.

This is just what I see from my vantage point.

 

[G4dude]

If NJI flew skateboards the pressure for the merger would be there. Some of the older timers correct me - but scope - only one company essentially - became important when Lorenzo was looting one airline and selling the parts to another he owned - almost destroying both while lining his pockets. A good scope clause tries to prevent that. NJA pilots were also promised NJI would go away - so it has to do with holding someone to their word also.

I had to chuckle at this post. Lorenzo "looted" one airline because the unions there had rendered it worth more dead than alive. This situation was the fault of the unions, not Lorenzo. If it had not been him, it would have been someone else. I just hope the Strong Union has not done the same to NetJets.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Cav,

If NJI pilots "play ball?" How can they play ball? Turn in IBT organizing cards now? Fight it how? Don't turn in IBT cards now?

As many on this board were saying during the contract negotiations, NJI pilots had no say in what the TA would include because they don't get to vote on it. NJI pilots have very little to say about any possible single carrier petition other than general support or lack thereof for the management team in Woodbridge.

Whether NJI "fights" the inevitable single carrier petition is ultimately up to one person and I believe he intends to do just that. He has and will continue to spend a lot of cash trying to build an operational if not legal wall between the CMH and HHX.

The point of my post was that anyone from either side who thinks their preferred outcome is a foregone conclusion is fooling themself. Three years is an eternity in economic and labor relations terms. Anything can, and probably will happen.

As an aside, no guns here. Just drawing to the inside straight (gutshot). Probably explains why my bankroll is so small...

 

[Cavpilot]

The point of my post was that anyone from either side who thinks their preferred outcome is a foregone conclusion is fooling themself. Three years is an eternity in economic and labor relations terms. Anything can, and probably will happen.

I totally concur with this statement. In fact, I'll take it even further. I don't think that there will EVER be a merger of the two groups. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a plan it the works at Woodbridge that will make the entire NLI LOU null and void. One thing that is painfully obvious is that NetJets is more than willing to cut off there nose to spite there face. So I think there is a plan, even if it is a bad one.

If I am wrong (I usually am ) and the single carrier thing does run its course, the NJI pilot group will have a choice too make. Get involved with IBT 1108 prior to a merger or not. There are ramifications for either decision. The point of the last half of my post was to illustrate that the 1108 organization is not the mind numb, knuckle draggers that many people think of when a union is discussed.

 

[2EASYPilot]

Easy to critic from the outside but I would really have my fingers crossed the integration of NJI and NJA does not happen if I were a NJI guy...good way to screw up a good job !!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Cav,

Many in the NJI employee group understand completely that the vast majority of 1108 members are hard working professionals who only want a merger to prevent potential whipsawing and to hold someone to a verbal promise he reportedly made (gee, don't you wish you could hold every employer, politician, and spouse in your life to every promise they've made?). In fact, some NJI people don't necessarily feel a pilot integration would be a bad thing.

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots, or dismantle the Hilton Head operation, or any number of other vindictive, thuggish statements.

If the primary argument for single carrier has always been that NJA and NJI work for the same company and fly the same clients, then any post-merger seniority integration should be conducted on a straight date of hire basis. We all know that WON'T happen so what's the ratio? 3 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 0?

During the contract negotiations, we kept hearing about "fairness." Apparently it goes out the window pretty quick when dealing with a different group.

As for dismantling the Hilton Head operation and "taking it back to its rightful place in CMH," nearly everyone at NJI who also worked with CMH operations will tell you that HHX is a way better deal. The schedulers do their jobs as efficiently as the system will let them, they actually listen to crew suggestions, they don't schedule vindictively, they don't solicit or accept gifts, and with one phone call you can coordinate scheduling, dispatch, Jeppeson, maintenance and management. I watched an Ultra crew last week land short of the destination because of fuel issues and take 45 minutes to get back in the air because they had to make 10 different phone calls and tell the same story 10 times before the CMH gears could grind out a new release. An NJI crew with the same issue could be airborne in 15 minutes with 1 phone call. If a merger does happen, the operations centers should remain separate because of huge differences in international trip planning and execution.

As the next three years grind on, I don't expect any blockbuster annoucements that will shock anybody or suddenly shift the balance of power. As long as the cooler heads on both sides prevail, I'm guessing it will be more of an evolution of thought that will one day make the best solution fairly evident.

 

[hydrarkt]

I've talked to some NJI pilots since the TA. It seems that the older pilots and the ones that have been there the longest are the most afraid. The newer pilots seem to be "listening intently." The same "A team" situation exists at NJI that existed at NJA and probably exists at the other frax. The "A team" pilots don't want to see their gravy train end. I believe that the newer pilots see things like defined duty and rest rules, specific pay, disciplinary representation through the grievance process and are thinking about it.
Over the next 3 years, the pilots of NJI will have a huge say in what happens to them if and when we do become a single carrier. If the majority resist assimilation, I mean integration, the "ratio" of integration will be a lot less tasty. On the other hand, if the majority decide to embrace 1108, the "ratio" could be very tasty. Not a threat, just reality.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hydrarkt,

As I asked Cav, how can the NJI pilots "resist" or "embrace?" NJI pilots DON'T have a say in whether a merger occurs and if so how the integration will go. Cards haven't been mailed to the pilot group since the last failed effort by IBT 284 more than 5 years ago.

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated." This is exactly the attitude that breeds resentment among the non-union pilots and is counter-productive if the goal is to create an integrated, union workforce.

 

[Cavpilot]

Gunshot,

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots.

Lets face it, if it actually comes to a merger neither of these things will happen. In fact the "take the planes and leave the pilots" rhetoric is flat out absurd. I've heard these kinds of statements made as well, but I have never put much credence in it. If there is any doubt, go back and read section I of the TA. It talks specifically about different merger scenarios. None of which are in line with the above inflammatory positions.

During the contract negotiations, we kept hearing about "fairness." Apparently it goes out the window pretty quick when dealing with a different group.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about here. Again, read section I of the TA.

The schedulers do their jobs as efficiently as the system will let them, they actually listen to crew suggestions, they don't schedule vindictively, they don't solicit or accept gifts, and with one phone call you can coordinate scheduling, dispatch, Jeppeson, maintenance and management.

I have always said that the biggest obstacle for me in getting the job done was 4111 Bridgeway. The situation you described with the Ultra crew trying to get re-dispatched sounds typical. I hope now that this contract is done (or so it seems) that BB, DMac and the rest will focus their attention on fixing the problems in the casino. It sounds like your people in SC have it figured out.

One more thing,

NJI pilots DON'T have a say in whether a merger occurs and if so how the integration will go.

The first part of your statement is totally correct. The second part is totally false.

I have said before that I don't believe a merger will ever happen. But if it does, there is no reason it has to be a bad thing. In fact, I think that it could truly benefit all of the parties involved. Expanded opportunities for all. Yea, we have bomb throwers over here as do you at NJI. I believe that it stems more from a fear of the unknown rather than an overt attempt to try and bone someone. I ran into a NJI G-V guy the other day at the airport. We briefly talked about some of the same issues that we have discussing here. He seemed to think that in integration would be a good thing for the same reasons that we have discussed. Open, rational discussions are a good thing. Anonymous rants are not.

BTW, thank God for spellchecker! I would not want Seaspray to think that I was another stupid WO.