NJA/NJI Question

[2EASYPilot]

Easy to critic from the outside but I would really have my fingers crossed the integration of NJI and NJA does not happen if I were a NJI guy...good way to screw up a good job !!!

 

[gutshotdraw]

Cav,

Many in the NJI employee group understand completely that the vast majority of 1108 members are hard working professionals who only want a merger to prevent potential whipsawing and to hold someone to a verbal promise he reportedly made (gee, don't you wish you could hold every employer, politician, and spouse in your life to every promise they've made?). In fact, some NJI people don't necessarily feel a pilot integration would be a bad thing.

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots, or dismantle the Hilton Head operation, or any number of other vindictive, thuggish statements.

If the primary argument for single carrier has always been that NJA and NJI work for the same company and fly the same clients, then any post-merger seniority integration should be conducted on a straight date of hire basis. We all know that WON'T happen so what's the ratio? 3 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 0?

During the contract negotiations, we kept hearing about "fairness." Apparently it goes out the window pretty quick when dealing with a different group.

As for dismantling the Hilton Head operation and "taking it back to its rightful place in CMH," nearly everyone at NJI who also worked with CMH operations will tell you that HHX is a way better deal. The schedulers do their jobs as efficiently as the system will let them, they actually listen to crew suggestions, they don't schedule vindictively, they don't solicit or accept gifts, and with one phone call you can coordinate scheduling, dispatch, Jeppeson, maintenance and management. I watched an Ultra crew last week land short of the destination because of fuel issues and take 45 minutes to get back in the air because they had to make 10 different phone calls and tell the same story 10 times before the CMH gears could grind out a new release. An NJI crew with the same issue could be airborne in 15 minutes with 1 phone call. If a merger does happen, the operations centers should remain separate because of huge differences in international trip planning and execution.

As the next three years grind on, I don't expect any blockbuster annoucements that will shock anybody or suddenly shift the balance of power. As long as the cooler heads on both sides prevail, I'm guessing it will be more of an evolution of thought that will one day make the best solution fairly evident.

 

[hydrarkt]

I've talked to some NJI pilots since the TA. It seems that the older pilots and the ones that have been there the longest are the most afraid. The newer pilots seem to be "listening intently." The same "A team" situation exists at NJI that existed at NJA and probably exists at the other frax. The "A team" pilots don't want to see their gravy train end. I believe that the newer pilots see things like defined duty and rest rules, specific pay, disciplinary representation through the grievance process and are thinking about it.
Over the next 3 years, the pilots of NJI will have a huge say in what happens to them if and when we do become a single carrier. If the majority resist assimilation, I mean integration, the "ratio" of integration will be a lot less tasty. On the other hand, if the majority decide to embrace 1108, the "ratio" could be very tasty. Not a threat, just reality.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Hydrarkt,

As I asked Cav, how can the NJI pilots "resist" or "embrace?" NJI pilots DON'T have a say in whether a merger occurs and if so how the integration will go. Cards haven't been mailed to the pilot group since the last failed effort by IBT 284 more than 5 years ago.

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated." This is exactly the attitude that breeds resentment among the non-union pilots and is counter-productive if the goal is to create an integrated, union workforce.

 

[Cavpilot]

Gunshot,

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots.

Lets face it, if it actually comes to a merger neither of these things will happen. In fact the "take the planes and leave the pilots" rhetoric is flat out absurd. I've heard these kinds of statements made as well, but I have never put much credence in it. If there is any doubt, go back and read section I of the TA. It talks specifically about different merger scenarios. None of which are in line with the above inflammatory positions.

During the contract negotiations, we kept hearing about "fairness." Apparently it goes out the window pretty quick when dealing with a different group.

I'm not exactly sure what you are talking about here. Again, read section I of the TA.

The schedulers do their jobs as efficiently as the system will let them, they actually listen to crew suggestions, they don't schedule vindictively, they don't solicit or accept gifts, and with one phone call you can coordinate scheduling, dispatch, Jeppeson, maintenance and management.

I have always said that the biggest obstacle for me in getting the job done was 4111 Bridgeway. The situation you described with the Ultra crew trying to get re-dispatched sounds typical. I hope now that this contract is done (or so it seems) that BB, DMac and the rest will focus their attention on fixing the problems in the casino. It sounds like your people in SC have it figured out.

One more thing,

NJI pilots DON'T have a say in whether a merger occurs and if so how the integration will go.

The first part of your statement is totally correct. The second part is totally false.

I have said before that I don't believe a merger will ever happen. But if it does, there is no reason it has to be a bad thing. In fact, I think that it could truly benefit all of the parties involved. Expanded opportunities for all. Yea, we have bomb throwers over here as do you at NJI. I believe that it stems more from a fear of the unknown rather than an overt attempt to try and bone someone. I ran into a NJI G-V guy the other day at the airport. We briefly talked about some of the same issues that we have discussing here. He seemed to think that in integration would be a good thing for the same reasons that we have discussed. Open, rational discussions are a good thing. Anonymous rants are not.

BTW, thank God for spellchecker! I would not want Seaspray to think that I was another stupid WO.

 

[hydrarkt]

Hydrarkt,

As I asked Cav, how can the NJI pilots "resist" or "embrace?"

Over the next three years, NJA pilots will be flying Gs at NJI. Also, I'm not positive but I'm willing to bet that NJI pilots will be offered 1108 membership. Treatment of NJA pilots at NJI and how NJI pilots treat 1108 will have a say in determining future pilot integration into the seniority list, if it happens. I'm not saying that they'll be stapled. What I'm saying is that I believe if there is pilot integration, that the ratios of pilot integration into the seniority list will be directly reflective of NJI pilot resistance.

 

[gunfyter]

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots, or dismantle the Hilton Head operation, or any number of other vindictive, thuggish statements.

If the primary argument for single carrier has always been that NJA and NJI work for the same company and fly the same clients, then any post-merger seniority integration should be conducted on a straight date of hire basis. We all know that WON'T happen so what's the ratio? 3 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 0?.

Don't pay any attn to that BS.

At my age and relative seniority, I will never see a Gulfstream here under any configuration. Just don't want to be played anymore....

Don't want to bid into a class 4 falcon and be paid half as much as a non-union G-IV guy. Don't want to commute on my day off to a gateway 500 miles away when another guy on the non union side gets to fly from wherever he likes.

Not looking to screw somebody else.

I am looking for what a Reasonable man would consider fair.

 

[CL60]

Single-carrier petition

AIN reports:

Under the TA, one-third of the open captain positions and half of the open first-officer slots would be filled by pilots from the NJA seniority list. While these pilots would conform to NJI scheduling and training, they would remain unionized employees. This would create a mix of union and non-union pilots at NJI, which the union said will all but guarantee that the NMB approves the single-carrier petition.

 

[islandhopper]

I have a question. I just sent a resume to NJI. After doing that I jumped in here to read some threads on NJI and it appears I had no idea of what was going on over there. Just a few questions.

Is NJI considered an alter-ego carrier?
Are NJI pilots flying the BBJ junior to NJ pilots in smaller equipment?

Any other pertinent information would be cool.

 

[flyfish]

I have a question. I just sent a resume to NJI. After doing that I jumped in here to read some threads on NJI and it appears I had no idea of what was going on over there. Just a few questions.

Is NJI considered an alter-ego carrier?
Are NJI pilots flying the BBJ junior to NJ pilots in smaller equipment?

Any other pertinent information would be cool.

NJI pilots fly only G4/5's. NJA pilots fly all other airplanes, including the BBJ. When and if the TA passes, NJA pilots will begin to fill a portion of open PIC and SIC seats in the G4/5...which may be the beginning to the end of the first question.

 

[islandhopper]

NJI pilots fly only G4/5's. NJA pilots fly all other airplanes, including the BBJ. When and if the TA passes, NJA pilots will begin to fill a portion of open PIC and SIC seats in the G4/5...which may be the beginning to the end of the first question.

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA? What is the quickest upgrade into ANY equipment?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA?

I believe Moses is next in line to upgrade on the BBJ. Or at least thats what he told me last week in TEB.

 

[Cavpilot]

I believe Moses is next in line to upgrade on the BBJ. Or at least thats what he told me last week in TEB.

LOL, That is more true than you know!

 

[Diesel]

It does make me chuckle that the same pilots that defend NJI to the death don't realize that RTS sold them (NJI) out to protect his own managers in SC.

 

[flyfish]

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA? What is the quickest upgrade into ANY equipment?

The top 50 on NJA seniority can/could hold BBJ CA. 1300 and lower #'s out of 2300 or so are holding new bids for captain. Could take several years to upgrade from now on. Anyone's guess really now. Depends on many things...ie, attrition, airplane orders/deliveries, acquisitions, bird flu...you get the idea.