NJA/NJI Question

[hydrarkt]

Hydrarkt,

As I asked Cav, how can the NJI pilots "resist" or "embrace?"

Over the next three years, NJA pilots will be flying Gs at NJI. Also, I'm not positive but I'm willing to bet that NJI pilots will be offered 1108 membership. Treatment of NJA pilots at NJI and how NJI pilots treat 1108 will have a say in determining future pilot integration into the seniority list, if it happens. I'm not saying that they'll be stapled. What I'm saying is that I believe if there is pilot integration, that the ratios of pilot integration into the seniority list will be directly reflective of NJI pilot resistance.

 

[gunfyter]

What causes concern are the demands of the hard liners that in a merger the NJI pilots be stapled to the bottom, or that NJA take just the planes and not the pilots, or dismantle the Hilton Head operation, or any number of other vindictive, thuggish statements.

If the primary argument for single carrier has always been that NJA and NJI work for the same company and fly the same clients, then any post-merger seniority integration should be conducted on a straight date of hire basis. We all know that WON'T happen so what's the ratio? 3 to 1? 5 to 1? 10 to 1? 0?.

Don't pay any attn to that BS.

At my age and relative seniority, I will never see a Gulfstream here under any configuration. Just don't want to be played anymore....

Don't want to bid into a class 4 falcon and be paid half as much as a non-union G-IV guy. Don't want to commute on my day off to a gateway 500 miles away when another guy on the non union side gets to fly from wherever he likes.

Not looking to screw somebody else.

I am looking for what a Reasonable man would consider fair.

 

[CL60]

Single-carrier petition

AIN reports:

Under the TA, one-third of the open captain positions and half of the open first-officer slots would be filled by pilots from the NJA seniority list. While these pilots would conform to NJI scheduling and training, they would remain unionized employees. This would create a mix of union and non-union pilots at NJI, which the union said will all but guarantee that the NMB approves the single-carrier petition.

 

[islandhopper]

I have a question. I just sent a resume to NJI. After doing that I jumped in here to read some threads on NJI and it appears I had no idea of what was going on over there. Just a few questions.

Is NJI considered an alter-ego carrier?
Are NJI pilots flying the BBJ junior to NJ pilots in smaller equipment?

Any other pertinent information would be cool.

 

[flyfish]

I have a question. I just sent a resume to NJI. After doing that I jumped in here to read some threads on NJI and it appears I had no idea of what was going on over there. Just a few questions.

Is NJI considered an alter-ego carrier?
Are NJI pilots flying the BBJ junior to NJ pilots in smaller equipment?

Any other pertinent information would be cool.

NJI pilots fly only G4/5's. NJA pilots fly all other airplanes, including the BBJ. When and if the TA passes, NJA pilots will begin to fill a portion of open PIC and SIC seats in the G4/5...which may be the beginning to the end of the first question.

 

[islandhopper]

NJI pilots fly only G4/5's. NJA pilots fly all other airplanes, including the BBJ. When and if the TA passes, NJA pilots will begin to fill a portion of open PIC and SIC seats in the G4/5...which may be the beginning to the end of the first question.

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA? What is the quickest upgrade into ANY equipment?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA?

I believe Moses is next in line to upgrade on the BBJ. Or at least thats what he told me last week in TEB.

 

[Cavpilot]

I believe Moses is next in line to upgrade on the BBJ. Or at least thats what he told me last week in TEB.

LOL, That is more true than you know!

 

[Diesel]

It does make me chuckle that the same pilots that defend NJI to the death don't realize that RTS sold them (NJI) out to protect his own managers in SC.

 

[flyfish]

What kind of seniority to hold the BBJ as a CA? What is the quickest upgrade into ANY equipment?

The top 50 on NJA seniority can/could hold BBJ CA. 1300 and lower #'s out of 2300 or so are holding new bids for captain. Could take several years to upgrade from now on. Anyone's guess really now. Depends on many things...ie, attrition, airplane orders/deliveries, acquisitions, bird flu...you get the idea.

 

[G4dude]

I've talked to some NJI pilots since the TA. It seems that the older pilots and the ones that have been there the longest are the most afraid. The newer pilots seem to be "listening intently." The same "A team" situation exists at NJI that existed at NJA and probably exists at the other frax. The "A team" pilots don't want to see their gravy train end. I believe that the newer pilots see things like defined duty and rest rules, specific pay, disciplinary representation through the grievance process and are thinking about it.
Over the next 3 years, the pilots of NJI will have a huge say in what happens to them if and when we do become a single carrier. If the majority resist assimilation, I mean integration, the "ratio" of integration will be a lot less tasty. On the other hand, if the majority decide to embrace 1108, the "ratio" could be very tasty. Not a threat, just reality.

Nice post, but the reality is quite different. I have been at NJI for 5 years, and the count of pro-union pilots stands at approximately 3. If I missed one, then the count would be 4. And the anti-union pilots are vehement about their view!

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Nice post, but the reality is quite different. I have been at NJI for 5 years, and the count of pro-union pilots stands at approximately 3. If I missed one, then the count would be 4. And the anti-union pilots are vehement about their view!

Don't be so sure about that, talking with my NJI friends who are Capt.s, they said that if they don't get raises that are equal or better than class 4, then they said that a union might form at NJI also, they stated that it would not be fair for an NJA pilot to come over as a capt. and make more as a year 1 capt. than what most guys there don't make as 5th year capt.s, I guess you guys will see if Santuli lives by his word

 

[FLYLOW22]

Don't be so sure about that, talking with my NJI friends who are Capt.s, they said that if they don't get raises that are equal or better than class 4, then they said that a union might form at NJI also, they stated that it would not be fair for an NJA pilot to come over as a capt. and make more as a year 1 capt. than what most guys there don't make as 5th year capt.s, I guess you guys will see if Santuli lives by his word

Fair or not it has already happened in the aviation industry. Jets 4 Jobs at US Airways. UAL had a similar program with Mesa flying the 70 seat RJs. Mainline pilots furloughed came over and flew as captain on the commuter airlines RJs for different pay than the regional pilots could get at their own airline.

P.S. Santulli has no word.

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Fair or not it has already happened in the aviation industry. Jets 4 Jobs at US Airways. UAL had a similar program with Mesa flying the 70 seat RJs. Mainline pilots furloughed came over and flew as captain on the commuter airlines RJs for different pay than the regional pilots could get at their own airline.

P.S. Santulli has no word.

Not really the same thing, NJA and NJI are owned by the same parent, UAL and Mesa, etc. were not, plus NJA has G rates and no g aircraft, hence the Class 4 rates, it would make no sense to pay one pilot one rate and another much less flying the same equipment, that would bring out some problems down the line, even when you look at the LOA, it states that NJA will be paid either class 4 or the average if NJI has a higher rate, my guess is that NJI will match the Class 4 rates, or they can and will have a bunch of pissed off pilots flying for them

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Fair or not it has already happened in the aviation industry. Jets 4 Jobs at US Airways. UAL had a similar program with Mesa flying the 70 seat RJs. Mainline pilots furloughed came over and flew as captain on the commuter airlines RJs for different pay than the regional pilots could get at their own airline.

And so that makes it 'right' in your eyes? Another perfect example of our self centered society.

Come on man... everybody's doing it

 

[FLYLOW22]

And so that makes it 'right' in your eyes? Another perfect example of our self centered society.

Come on man... everybody's doing it

No. I made no ascertian pro or con. You did. I merely stated an example of an industry president that had been set prior. Not idential but close enough.

Parent company or no, the point was drawing similarities between two pilot groups doing the same flying within other pilot groups represented by Unions under the RLA.

No more, no less. Just making the point that the NJI//NJA situation is not that special.