NJA Meteorology

[grounded92]

Communication between crew and pax

Hello all,

I've been flying private jets for over 12 years and this thread perfectly summarizes crew/passenger communication. I'm wondering if the fractional companies could use this type of medium to facilitate improved relations between their varied groups.

I think it is important for the passengers to understand that many of the fractional pilots never intended to be in the customer service business. Their career expectations involved big iron, newspapers in the cockpit, crew meals and hotel rooms. This is important because many have not made the transition to pilot/customer service agent.

While many of us fractional pilots find satisfaction in the intimate charter setting and the customer contact, some don't. Yet. Please let your pilots know when the service isn't up to par. I know from experience that many pilots don't understand what the owners really value.

Example: I flew with a military/airline pilot who filled all the cabin stock space with chocolate nu-go bars. When I asked why he didn't add a little variety he was honestly confused. His experience was that if you were hungry you would eat....whatever was at hand. He was an awesome pilot but unable to see how the airplane looked from the back.

A owner pointing out deficiencies could have a much larger impact than the “counseling” of a co-pilot or management.

 

[Pervis]

Grounded, I can't speak for all fractionals, but NJA is very specific during the interview and IOE to address the areas you mentioned. I'll bet our competitors do as well. While former military and big iron pilots may need to adjust, it is ingrained from the get go that customer service is on a completely different level than boarding, turning left and closing the door.

All fleets have a clean and stock checklist, although some are admittedly outdated due to recent changes. These are being addressed. When you have 70-100 of one type a/c, it's important to standardize, as I'm sure you can understand. Can some crews do it better? You bet. But most do a pretty darn good job given the limited number of stock lockers and recent manning issues.

Fishfry and NJA owner, it is indeed the crew's responsibility to ensure the cabin is stocked and in working order if at all possible. It's no small thing to me when the deck of cards you've become accustomed to are not available. Additionally, if you like items that are not standard, you have every right to place that request on your profile or catering order and expect them to be available for your flight. These are not unreasonable requests from customers who pay top dollar for our services. It may seem rare in today's world, but I can honestly say that if you're not happy, I'm not happy-until I can change your situation to your satisfaction if it is at all within my grasp. I can also assure you whatever concerns you have will not interfere with the safe operation of YOUR aircraft. Pilots generally compartentalize very well.

 

[fischman]

Well said Pervis. I know I certainly don't mind getting in a crew car to get a deck of cards if it will make the person who makes decisions about a million dollar contract with my company happy. If something doesn't meet the standards of an owner the crew is usually the only ones who can immediately do anything about it.

Please let us know!

 

[Mike Jenvey]

<<<< Please let us know! >>>>

Concur!!

 

[DAS at 10/250]

All fleets have a clean and stock checklist, although some are admittedly outdated due to recent changes. These are being addressed. When you have 70-100 of one type a/c, it's important to standardize, as I'm sure you can understand. Can some crews do it better? You bet. But most do a pretty darn good job given the limited number of stock lockers and recent manning issues.

Sorry Pervis, but I'm calling complete and utter bullsh!t on this statement.

I saw zero difference in the quality of the airplane given to me from the previous crew from the 2008 hey days and the idle days of 2009. Every single Sovereign that I picked up I threw away at least 50% of the on board stock items. And 99% of all airplanes were NOT stocked in accordance (or even close) to the NJA 680 Master Stock list. Hell, most pilots didn't even know we had such a list.

Maybe it's gotten better since 16 Jan 2010, but I doubt it.

If your airplane isn't stocked it's a good bet it is your pilots fault.

 

[rajflyboy]

NJA Weather Department

Key to this is taking the weather information and relating this information to the flight operation from point A to point B.

Does NJA weather do that?? Well to be honest I don't think they do. This job is really up to the Pilots on that particular flight. The pilots are more capable of taking this weather information and making a "Go" or "No Go" descision or possibly finding a better route or altitude that would be more conducive to safe flight.

 

[Pervis]

Sorry Pervis, but I'm calling complete and utter bullsh!t on this statement.

I saw zero difference in the quality of the airplane given to me from the previous crew from the 2008 hey days and the idle days of 2009. Every single Sovereign that I picked up I threw away at least 50% of the on board stock items. And 99% of all airplanes were NOT stocked in accordance (or even close) to the NJA 680 Master Stock list. Hell, most pilots didn't even know we had such a list.

Maybe it's gotten better since 16 Jan 2010, but I doubt it.

If your airplane isn't stocked it's a good bet it is your pilots fault.

Just curious. What did you do about it? Email the previous crew? Call Pro Standards or the ACP? There are those that need a little push at times, and doing nothing gets nothing done. There has indeed been improvement of late, but we can always be better. As soon as we think we can't, we're doomed.

 

[rajflyboy]

Just curious. What did you do about it? Email the previous crew? Call Pro Standards or the ACP? There are those that need a little push at times, and doing nothing gets nothing done. There has indeed been improvement of late, but we can always be better. As soon as we think we can't, we're doomed.

So.....

You are x pilot that will not carry extra stock and then you fly your Cessna XL on a pax trip into Eldorado Arkansas. On the trip your pax take most all of the stock off the airplane and bada bing you happen to have a pax trip out of Eldorado in 1 hour heading back to your beloved KTEB.

What happens then? You don't have the time to cater the stock in and you hosed yourself by not having extra stock. You really hose the pax who wanted to drink a few drinks that you cannot find at the FBO.

So... how goes it??

There are many angles that make some of this stuff interesting. I wont rip on a guy that wants some extra stock on the airplane. In the same message I will not rip on a guy that is straight by the book either.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Just curious. What did you do about it? Email the previous crew? Call Pro Standards or the ACP? There are those that need a little push at times, and doing nothing gets nothing done. There has indeed been improvement of late, but we can always be better. As soon as we think we can't, we're doomed.

I addressed the issue with ACP's during recurrent and with our "king" (I mean that in a nice way, he really knows the 680). The common reply was a shoulder shrug and a "what ya going to do?"

Where the fault is, I don't know. I do know that our restock "system" is/was broken.

The other thing that drove me effing nuts was that CMH would schedule the aircraft for a cleaning that night and not inform the crew. So, we'd bust our arses getting the airplane clean again so that the company could pay a crew to come in and do very little behind us. If you're going to hire a crew to clean then let the crew know. Why pay OT after 12 and cut into extra rest when we're already hiring someone to do the job?

Edit: I forget to address two other issues.

ProStans at NJA is tits worthless. They have zero authority to do anything other then have a kumbaya phone conference.

Emailing the previous crew always comes with a prepackaged response:"Sorry, we only had 30 min to catch our flight home".

 

[NJAowner]

Under stocked

Raj -- in that case the pilot says to the second owner "I apologize but the owner before you took all the ...." Since we are in XXX, Ark. and can't get restocked even by our caterer we apoligize (and maybe offer a free ugradein the future??) Honesty is the best policy and most owners are capable of understanding if told the truth.

 

[rajflyboy]

Raj -- in that case the pilot says to the second owner "I apologize but the owner before you took all the ...." Since we are in XXX, Ark. and can't get restocked even by our caterer we apoligize (and maybe offer a free ugradein the future??) Honesty is the best policy and most owners are capable of understanding if told the truth.

In my opinion that is not good enough. No Owner should have to ride on a plane that is not stocked properly. Thats why I always carry at least a little bit of extra stock (so that I can treat the owner properly).

Some pilots agree with me and some don't. What is the correct answer? Who knows. I guess somewhere in between.

 

[ghostrider64]

Honestly NJAOWner I don't rely on our internal Meteorology Dept that much....

The info we get is only good at the moment they press send on releases. It's good "planning" but not good implementation information. There are far too many variables as you know and I ALWAYS get the most up to date info prior to leaving the FBO for the plane. Those calls are NEVER to our in house Dept., which I believe is redundant to "other" FAA approved sources but might be good for Owner Services and Owners themselves.

 

[hopalong]

Oz -- I do not want to burden the crew with issues which are not in their area of responsibility.

And - so no one misinterpret my posts - I still believe that NJA is great and the best in its market. Just not as good as it once was, but hopefully it will get back there. I remain a thankful NJA owner.

We do NOT think of it as a burden to please our owners. It is our responsibility to make your flight as comfortable and pleasant as you once experienced. Please accept our apologizes and we hope to serve you better in the future. (playing cards and all) We are trained to go above and beyond the expectations of our customers and we are happy when you have a great flight. Please, always communicate your needs with us and never think that you are asking too much. It is our job.
We remain grateful for your business and hope that we will have your continued business by providing you with the exceptional service you have paid for. Thank you NJA owner.

 

[hopalong]

As a consumer, I'm w/ NJAowner. I can certainly see not wanting to bother the crew about the lack of playing cards, as an example. You are paying a lot for the flight, so you have a reasonable expectation that everything will be just so. However, if it is not, the crew is not always who you want to complain to.

First of all, there's really no way to complain about your private jet flight without looking (or feeling, or maybe even *being*) like a complete ******************************. Even if the crew doesn't look at it that way, you've got to admit that's the reality of the situation for minor complaints. You're already so fortunate to be traveling that way that any complaint just seems like you're tempting the gods to smite you down for being such an ungrateful dick.

What it really seems like happens in those situations is that the *system* is at fault. I don't want to complain to the ops team that my pilot didn't stock enough mini-mothwashes for the flight because I don't believe it's his/her fault. If I thought the pilots weren't thorough and by the book, I wouldn't get on the plane in the first place. If there aren't any playing cards or enough mini-mouthwashes on the plane, my feeling is that the reason is that they were not on the crew's list (and you guys have to admit that no one can go over a check list like a pilot -- with the possible exception of a pair of them). What you want is a way to feed that information back to the operator without making the (always conscientious, in my experience) crew feel bad about something that's not their fault or getting them in trouble back at home.

Best,

fs

ps: Interesting I can say dick, but not ******************************. I would have guessed it would be the other way around ;-)

We wish all of our passengers were as considerate and as humorous as you and NJA owner. However, please know that it is OUR JOB to make your flight as comfortable as possible. We want you to tell us when you need something. We value your business and we never want any of our owners/passengers to feel awkward if they need something. Please tell us.

P.S. I promise we won't think you are an ********... You are paying our salaries and we want your business.... Thank you....