NJA LOA on changing Domiciles reached for newhires!!

[greygoose]

I see someone already asked this question but no one answered. Does this allow newhires to change to any of NJ's domiciles, or are they only allowed to change between the new 5 domiciles?

 

[p3hawk]

Only the 5 domiciles

 

[Going2Baja]

Just a show of hands please......Are many of you who have been holding out for s certain domicile going to go for any available base now or continue to wait??

Baja.

 

[RTRHD]

Sounds like a better deal to me. Congrats.

 

[DoneWell]

The sovereign is in PBI also. I had two newhires in my class that were PBI sovereign

Waco

You are saying that there were two new hires for PBI???? for the june class!!!!!

 

[Swaayze]

wait.....'cause if you poop in one hand and wish in the other you know which one fills up first!

 

[netjetwife]

The LOA requires the company to offer domicile vacancies to those pilots already on the seniority list --first--essentially, leaving the "leftovers" to the newly hired. Logic dictates that the most affordable domiciles will be more attractive to those originally assigned one of the expensive cities. It must be surmised that given a chance to switch to a better location many pilots will do so. I think it would be wiser to take the job now if you can manage to make the assigned city work for you, and bid on the domicile of your choice when an opening there becomes available. The longer you delay the lower your number will be on the seniority list, putting you further behind in upgrading. There would also be a greater risk of getting stuck as an FO should NJA stop growing.

 

[Lear70]

wait.....'cause if you poop in one hand and wish in the other you know which one fills up first!

No doubt... lol

Just not interested in working anywhere I have to move permanently for, no matter HOW good the benefits package is long-term (unless they start matching FedEx's pay scale and days off for ALL pilots at approx $250,000 to $300,000 a year with 16-18 days off per month).

I know I'm probably in the minority, but that's the difference between Netjets getting an 8,000 hour pilot with 5 types and previous Part 135 and 91 jet command experience versus getting a 4,000-6,000 hour regional pilot with little or no 135 or 91 experience.

Obviously NJA saw a need for a change; good for the new-hires, just wish the union had stuck to their guns about getting rid of the domicile idea NOW versus trying to negotiate for it 5-7 years from now...

 

[notaNJApilot]

So now a pilot might choose to pass up on a captain upgrade if it is not in his preferred domicile. This would be a loss of money since he is going to remain as a FO until a captain slot in his domicile opens up. I guess this LOA is good and bad.


Originally:
If this LOA is a win for the Union, what does the Company get in return?

 

[Twotter76]

Actually you have to figure this one is more a win for the company. It will allow them to continue with this rediculous domicle program they want since now more people will be willing to apply since they can eventually change to whatever base they seek (within the 5). Otherwise people might not have applied with the knowledge that they would be stuck in whatever domicle they got initially and might not have applied at all - thus creating more pressure on the company to create more domicles or give HBA rights to more people.

 

[netjetwife]

It's an improvement, yes; but I think the label "win" is an overstatement. There are definitely some strings attached. After an FO bids into a new domicile (from the one originally assigned) he/she is no longer allowed to bid for any other FO positions on another aircraft in classes 1-3. That should cut down movement between the fleets, and therefore training costs, one can surmise. The 2 year domicile lock will restrict movement, making it easier to project hiring needs for the domiciles. Potential new hires have asked about the possibility of changing domiciles. Perhaps, there have been enough questions to get the message across that the salary doesn't offset the negatives of being stuck in an expensive city you don't like. If that's the case, the flexibility will be used as an inducement to interviewees.

Those are 3 that I see, the NJ pilots may know of others. Hope that helps.
NJW

 

[tk855]

So now a pilot might choose to pass up on a captain upgrade if it is not in his preferred domicile. This would be a loss of money since he is going to remain as a FO until a captain slot in his domicile opens up. I guess this LOA is good and bad.

At first I thought this was the case as well, but it is not. This LOA does nothing more than allow for domicile transfers on a seniority basis. You do not have to change domiciles if you don't want to, and you don't need to change domiciles to upgrade either. However, if you want to upgrade and change your domicile at the same time you can do that now thanks to the LOA. There is no such thing as having a PIC CE750 TEB slot for an upgrade and a domiciled pilot having to move from DAL to TEB in order to upgrade.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I just find it ironic that 10-12 months ago during the height of the negotiating furor, many of the 1108 posters on this board were telling interested applicants not to come to NJA until after the new CBA. "Don't come here now" they said. "It'll be better after the new contract" they said.

Of course, the smart ones ignored that advice and joined the company before the new contract and received HBA rights as a result. Kind of damages the credibility of some of the advice on this board, doesn't it?

 

[FLYLOW22]

I just find it ironic that 10-12 months ago during the height of the negotiating furor, many of the 1108 posters on this board were telling interested applicants not to come to NJA until after the new CBA. "Don't come here now" they said. "It'll be better after the new contract" they said.

Of course, the smart ones ignored that advice and joined the company before the new contract and received HBA rights as a result. Kind of damages the credibility of some of the advice on this board, doesn't it?

No. It was advice based on information at the time.

The Domicile issue reared it's head in the final offer given by the company with the ultimatum... "take it or leave it".

The ones who came here took a gamble and got HBAs. Just the way it worked out.

Absent a good contract and after seeing the POSTA the best advice WAS to avoid this place like the plague.

It was sound advice.

It's a NJA thing...you wouldn't understand... unless you lived through the roller coaster ride of negotiations lasting 4 years and ending with a derailment called the POSTA.

I wouldn't say the ones coming here against advice were smart necessarily... they were indeed lucky though.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm another that doesn't think credibility was damaged. Yes, I was vocal about my family's situation; I wanted other pilots to be aware that they had been misleading candidates during the interview. I advised all interested applicants to take a good look before they leaped in. For the ones who PMed me, explaining why they were still interested--young and single, mostly--I answered their questions and wished them luck.

The domicile debacle did come as a surprise to many. I know there was talk of it being just a "scare tactic", or a deterrent to HBAs. Some of us thought it was included in the POSTA, just as a show of pride (as in a "we're not backing down boast") or intimidation. Those theories are still there, if you'll notice. Now its called a diversionary tactic, or a future bargaining chip to keep salaries from rising. I think the problem is that the idea sounds so unfeasible for the frac industry that it's hard to take it seriously, at face value. People keep thinking that there must be more to it....only 5 cities.... As I said when my husband first told me about it....You're kidding , right?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Let's face it, the advice was a negotiating tactic. The thinking was, fewer applicants=fewer pilots=lower dispatch rate=more pressure on the company to settle. No complaints, you do what you think necessary to win your battle. But let's call a spade a spade.

NJA is like any other airline: seniority is everything. Most applicants, including a friend of mine, knew that getting on the property sooner rather than later was a good idea. He knew the contract would get done, he rolled the dice, and he made the 7 on the come out roll.

Being that this is an interview and employment intel web site, the point is that any advice given about any company should be viewed with several grains, er, make that pounds of salt. There are many agendas at work and job seekers would be well served to remember that.

 

[netjetwife]

Yes, that spade was there for some, but you tied it to the domicile issue as though we knew how it would end up. That's not fair to say. I also think that the pilots who had that strategy did believe that it was the course of action that would help the most pilots in the end. They didn't believe the job was worth having unless the compensation improved significantly. Judging by the strike vote they were right.

My husband also points out the importance of seniority. You will see that advice reflected in my posts to those who have been holding out for DAL.

I agree that readers should sift the posts carefully to glean what they can. It's good to keep in mind, too, that the other half of the board--PMs--are an excellent source of information.

 

[Max Powers]

So if ones desire is to upgrade as soon as possible. Which domicile will do that for you. Could you be stuck at a "senior" domicle and stuck in the fo slot with people hired after you at different domicile upgrading????

 

[netjetwife]

That wouldn't happen because pilots are allowed to switch domiciles for the purpose of upgrading. In that situation the 2 yr domicile lock won't be applied. The pilots will be required to fill out a Standing Bid Form (and ya better keep it current because the awards will be based on that) that states their priority--domicile location or upgrade time. If you elect to upgrade asap then you will be offered (assuming you're eligible to bid for it)the domicile/plane slot that meets your goal. As long as you were willing to change domiciles to the one with the upgrade opportunity, it would go to you before it was awarded to a pilot who had been hired after you.

I'm sorry that I can't predict which domicile would give you the quickest upgrade. If there's a method to their madness, I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Lear70]

Let's face it, the advice was a negotiating tactic. The thinking was, fewer applicants=fewer pilots=lower dispatch rate=more pressure on the company to settle. No complaints, you do what you think necessary to win your battle. But let's call a spade a spade.

Being that this is an interview and employment intel web site, the point is that any advice given about any company should be viewed with several grains, er, make that pounds of salt. There are many agendas at work and job seekers would be well served to remember that.

BINGO!

Not to detract from anyone who was giving advice then, but it was BAD
advice for those who had the chance to come early but waited until after the T.A. was ratified.