NJA Captains do your F'ing job and take care of your FO's

[old*art]

I am not going to say it does not happen, but I instruct and get the "noone told me" all the time. "Well what about where you initialed you had received this training ?" "Oh, well , maybe someone did tell me and I just forgot or maybe I need to stay in the books more." In all due fairness, NJA is like a fire hose for the first six to twelve months, depending on your learning curve - and please SPARE ME any more retired airline pilots - as a group, not individually !!

 

[Diesel]

To me, that's nothing to brag about, that's just being an incompetent lazy employee abusing company policy under the protection of a union. You netjet guys are just as miserable now as you were pre-contract; admit it.

admit it you're an a teamer who will continue to fly long after you were exhausted. Or you just don't have the experience to know when you're past the point of no return.

 

[IronManNDFW]

What are you talking about. He works for FLOPS! We love 16 hour days!

And can't wait for our contract!

 

[RNObased]

How about posting this in our crew room lounge where actual pilots that work for NJ can answer?

Of course most of what your upset at is easily looked up in the contract and on the union website.

I'm not going to answer and start any speculation on something I don't know the other side of the story to.

The answer to this is that he would have to post his name on the union site. It is easy to scream foul when you can do it without someone knowing who you are.

As for the rest of the questions, the FO's need to take some responsiblity for their worlds. Read the contract, do some homework, ask some questions, don't post BS on a public website where idiots like doylehargraves post and expect good answers.

 

[RNObased]

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days. What you are really saying is that,with all your experiences at netjets ,no one goes that long without calling in fatigued. I mean, you actually say that no one goes 11 months without doing it. To me, that's pathetic. I thought you guys had it easy at netjets? That's all you talk about is how good it is over there; are you now saying that they work everyone so hard that fatigue is a problem across the board? Cry me a river.

So you are proud of this doyle??? Never called in fatigued? And you have had many a 16 hrs duty day. God, what a putz. I feel sorry for your pax, because you obviously don't know your own limitations and could overshoot them without even knowing you did it.

You took one person's post and threw the whole NJA pilot group under the bus.

 

[rettofly]

....there was the amateur porn star tryout next to your room the night before, and you werent sleeping regardless of the pillows over your head or earplugs in your ears.

I'll bet the porn stars were pros on the TV.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

....there was the amateur porn star tryout next to your room the night before, and you werent sleeping regardless of the pillows over your head or earplugs in your ears.

I'll bet the porn stars were pros on the TV.

I'm tellin' ya, no way I could make it up..... It is absolutlely a wild story to hear over a coupla beers :beer: if I meet you,They were definitely live, It wasnt on the TV, the walls were that thin! :blush:

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Once again, Doyle, I pose the question: Is that Jealousy, Ignorance, or just plain stupidity I read in your post, Doyle?

You're being absurd calling us out on this, man, especially when you freely admit you fly under a direct violation of FAR 91.13, careless and reckless operation of an aircraft.

If you are tired, you are worse than if you were drunk. Read the statistics.
The proof is there in bold print.

You can't call fatigued? You must be jealous. I would be too. I would also not work there, but thats MHO. You won't call fatigued? You must be Ignorant, to jeapordize not only yourself, but your teammate and the folks behind you, or below you. You say we all abuse the "F" word at NetJets? Well, thats just plain ol' stupidity, Doyle.

Take your pick, man, either way you discredited yourself in this pilot group.....NEXT!!

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

How can it be that in the last 2 months I have flown with 4 FO's that have all been here around 10-11 months and I am hearing the following from them all:

1. I have never once been through the fatigue process. We have had some long days but my captains (intentionally not capitalized) say that the company is keeping track of grievance calls.

2. I did not know that you could order more than 3 meals in a day.

3. I have had to stay in plenty of smoking rooms. My captains said that if we moved to another hotel we would not get our rest adjusted.

4. I never heard of getting the 10 hours rest adjusted upon arrival at the hotel.

5. No idea what FRDA or RAATS stand for.

6. My other captains have never told me what is MEL'd on the plane, I don't even know where to look.

There are others. I know, I know, they should know their contract, etc. But they are still looking up to the Captain in many cases for guidance as they try to adjust to the NJA way.

Number 1 simply blows me away. How the hell can someone be here for nearly a year and not have had their captain call in fatigued for the crew? This is nuts as we all know what an average tour is like. A note from GH comes out nearly every month telling you to use your fatigue policy the way it was intended to be used and you still can't muster up the courage? Should I assume that I am just working that much harder and that is why I have legitimately fatigued nearly once per tour?

And don't attempt to justify it by saying you are saving the FO's job because he/she is on probation. If you are fatigued and you don't get some rest the outcome could be much worse. This company isn't going to terminate a probationary pilot for a legitimate fatigue call or moving from unsat/unsafe accommodations.

Ok. Your turn to be CAPTAIN.

Very curious, Seat 0A, couple of quick questions for you ( and please, sir, I am not calling you out at all)

Number one: Did these FO's read the union board at all?? A lot of good info, sorted from the daily whininig and BS that is on there, is disseminated in those pages, hence why this FO is on there keeping up with current events, even if I am a thickheaded opinionated SOB.

Number two, what fleet is this on, 'cause to be honest I don't see too many captains like described in 1,3, and 6. In a matter of fact, most of em made sure we were exactly on the same page.... I hope this isn't a new trend at NJA.

Number three, what type of person were these FO'S? Were they proactive types, borderline zero pulse fellas forced from another end of the industry?

Number four, did any of them carry their blue book or contract with them, or at least have the number to the union steward?

I vote that you pose this very question on the union board because at the least this is a disturbing trend that can be reversed quickly with a little proactivity from the pilot group.

Carry on, folks, I'm off to go hit some baseballs.
Sincerely,
HiSpeedFlyer
Pissing the whole world off 8 at a time.

 

[fischman]

All I'm saying is I've never felt fatigued and, the 16 hour days I refer to were travel home days on airlines. I have no problem calling in fatigue; however, I've just never felt that way. The point here is that you guys feel like you should do it a couple of times a year because you can. To me, that's nothing to brag about, that's just being an incompetent lazy employee abusing company policy under the protection of a union. You netjet guys are just as miserable now as you were pre-contract; admit it.

I stand in awe of your awesomeness.uke:

What makes you believe that we "should do it a couple of times a year because we can"? It is a provision in our contract which protects us.

Also, our CEO, Richard Santulli has personally told ME that he does NOT want us flying tired. Our IBT1108 E-board president Bill Olsen, has personally told me he does not want us flying tired. BOTH have told ME that they will stand beside me in support when I tell them I an too tired to fly.

You tell me who is miserable. I see more fingers pointing in your direction than mine.

I will support any pilot who says he is too tired to safely complete a mission. Even you.

 

[doylehargraves]

Mr Highspeedflyer,

you freely admit you fly under a direct violation of FAR 91.13, careless and reckless operation of an aircraft.

When did I say this??? Your comment has no merit bro. And, for the 2nd time, after you have put words out of my mouth, I HAVE NEVER FLOWN FATIGUED.

What makes you believe that we "should do it a couple of times a year because we can"? It is a provision in our contract which protects us.

You made my point for me exactly. Thank you.

No hard feelings here guys, I'm just saying that the original post he made here is BS and, if you're having to call in fatigue that much at Netjets, why don't you get in your next contract to limit your duty day to 8 hours.

 

[gunfyter]

why don't you get in your next contract to limit your duty day to 8 hours.

Why so many?

 

[Diesel]

8 don't you think thats a little much.

We need to have 6 hour days like Europe.

I'm just saying that the original post he made here is BS and, if you're having to call in fatigue that much at Netjets,

I called in fatigued 3 times in one tour. I guess I'm a *************************. Oh well thats just fine with me. Its a job not an ego stroker.

 

[swampfan]

As an FO, I have called fatigued for me and the captain.....twice. I have been here a little over a year. I didn't ask if I could call in, I just let the captain know what I was doing (that I was tired), and I called it. Not hard at all. I don't need a captain to tell me not to fly tired and make a smoking hole in the ground. This too is part of my job.

 

[hammer2]

I'm fatigued.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days. -Guilty as charged......as long as they were consecutive..thats pushing it Bro, IMHO. I did the min rest overnights after a 12 hr duty day in the 121 world as a young pup, and that was 8 hrs of rest...yikes... amazed i didnt kill myself nor others.What you are really saying is that,with all your experiences at netjets ,no one goes that long without calling in fatigued. That is a rarity, Our company works us hard sometimes, the hotels are too loud sometimes, sometimes you just cant sleep in the TEB embassy...= fatigued. See ya in 14 hrs.I mean, you actually say that no one goes 11 months without doing it. To me, that's pathetic.Its a rarity...I dont look for it yet I have had to do it, reference the Amateur porn star tryout posted earlier, trust me 3 hrs sleep after a 13 hr day followed by a scheduled 13 hr day was not happening.I thought you guys had it easy at netjets? That's all you talk about is how good it is over there; are you now saying that they work everyone so hard that fatigue is a problem across the board? Cry me a river.

We do have easier than most, Mr.Hargraves, more tools at our disposal.....more ways to get the job done safely, more job security than most, and =FATIGUED Furthermore, especially the ability to say "no mas" when it could affect the safe outcome of the flight. Period.

Now I'm fatigued from carrying this argument on with you all day. Do you think my wife will let me call in Fatigued from all the housework to be done tomorrow? I doubt it, too..... G'night all.

 

[say again]

If you're fatigued, call in!! I really don't see what the big debate is about. And if a company keeps track, well maybe they should wake up and see the schedules the pilots are flying (it can be tough, I know). Those that say suck it up, I say never. Statistics show that I shouldn't suck it up and fly, and one thing for sure is that Im not gonna become another statistic for something like this. I have called in numerous times being fatigued, along with my crew, and will not hesitate the next.

 

[hydrarkt]

I agree with everything except the sentence in bold. This is exactly the attitude we have to teach the F/O's to ignore. Calling in fatigued IS NOT undermining the captain. It's ENHANCING safety, for the captain too. A fatigue call should not be looked at as harming anyone. I try very hard to teach my IOE's about this.

Ithe new job.

I didn't mean to imply that an FO calling in fatigued is undermining the Captain.. bad choice of words on my part. I meant to imply that I can understand how an FO on IOE will hesitate to call in fatigued because he will feel that he is undermining the cpt. I agree that they shouldn't feel that way. I always tell them not to think that way. But in reality, a probation FO will tread lightly.

 

[say again]

We're all professionals here (believe it or not) and adults. I don't need someone telling me how I feel, if Im fatigued...well I call in!! I can understand some feeling intimidated about calling, but IT should not be like that. Not only is it your a$$, but everyone's as well.