NJA Captains do your F'ing job and take care of your FO's

[Hogprint]

Remember we're a crew. If you as a new FO is feeling fatigued, then you have the RIGHT to call fatigued. Do not be intimidated by your CPT or by the mothership.

I hope they are tracking F bombs, because then it may help with their tracking of the matrix.

 

[FLYLOW22]

All I can say is that during a 7 day tour with my F/O (or fellow PIC), where I'm from and what hobbies I'm into are about the last thing we end up talking about.

All of the above is taken care of. We talk about history, we talk about what it means to be part of a Union, we file grievances, we write things up, we get fed, we get adequate rest, we move to a suitable hotel AND get rest adjusted AND get OT if over 12 hours of duty while doing it...

we do our jobs.

Any F/O that doesn't know the contract after 1.5 years here isn't trying. Pick up the darned CBA and read it. That's why we printed it in english.

Now, Captains not acting like Captains... that is an entirely different subject.

And as for people not checking the official message board because it contains too much "bitching". Paleeease. Who's the pu$$y? Your dues money pays for that message board. Anyone who doesn't check that board regularly is both throwing away their dues money AND missing out on information that WILL cost them money on the road.

How bout that for reality??

 

[CA1900]

Anyone who doesn't check that board regularly is both throwing away their dues money AND missing out on information that WILL cost them money on the road.

Reading that message board (and thus seeing how the contract is applied) made me over $800 extra a few tours ago by exercising my rights in the contract. I can't afford not to read the board and learn from it!

 

[FLYLOW22]

Reading that message board (and thus seeing how the contract is applied) made me over $800 extra a few tours ago by exercising my rights in the contract. I can't afford not to read the board and learn from it!

Roger THAT!! Another satisfied customer! Making money takes effort and knowledge and a week of work here is like an easter egg hunt. You MUST know where they hide the money to make it.

 

[doylehargraves]

You may have misunderstood. I am not implying that this be done just for the sake of time off. What I intended is that there is no way an FO could go 11 months and maybe 25 tours without being in a fatigue situation. This is where a Captain should step up and do the right thing.

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days. What you are really saying is that,with all your experiences at netjets ,no one goes that long without calling in fatigued. I mean, you actually say that no one goes 11 months without doing it. To me, that's pathetic. I thought you guys had it easy at netjets? That's all you talk about is how good it is over there; are you now saying that they work everyone so hard that fatigue is a problem across the board? Cry me a river.

 

[pilotpat]

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days.

Sorry, man...but 16 hour days are nothing to brag about. That's just stupid flying there. You wanna really man up? Then tell 'em you're tired. Admit it. Its okay. Really. Why the heck do you think there have been studies about fatigued flying? What? You think its some kind of myth?

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days. What you are really saying is that,with all your experiences at netjets ,no one goes that long without calling in fatigued. I mean, you actually say that no one goes 11 months without doing it. To me, that's pathetic. I thought you guys had it easy at netjets? That's all you talk about is how good it is over there; are you now saying that they work everyone so hard that fatigue is a problem across the board? Cry me a river.

Is that Jealousy, Ignorance, or just plain stupidity I read in your last post, Doyle?

the fatigue thing is a safety tool , plain and simple. If you are not fit to fly, whether it is consecutive 14 and 10's on the opposite coast, and your body clock aint functioning, or there was the amateur porn star tryout next to your room the night before, and you werent sleeping regardless of the pillows over your head or earplugs in your ears. (Yes, It did happen to me in PNE last year, I couldnt make it up!) The fatigue call we use is to assure we will provide stellar LIVE service the next day, unlike some of our aviation fraternity who can't say that 'cause they are dead. The company embraces it, our DO preaches it to us, and we use it. Does our company work us hard, sometiimes, sometimes not. But that aint the reason we fatigue.
Cry me a river?? No, methinks you should get your facts straight and check your ignorance at the door.

 

[hydrarkt]

I have been at NJA for 7 years. I definately agree that there are many captains who are afraid to do the right thing. I get pissed when an FO on probation complains to me because his Cpt won't call in fatigued even though the FO told him that he was tired. I always tell the FO that HE can call in fatigued as well. He doesn't have to rely on the Capt. Of course, I realize that being on probation, it's probably tougher to undermine the Captain. Those that have been here a while know that an FO won't get fired for calling in fatigued. But you must understand their trepidation
That being said, if you are an FO who is OFF probation, then don't cry to me, "my Captain won't call in fatigued for us." As an FO, "YOU CAN CALL IN FATIGUED" for yourself.
If you are a Capt, don't be a wimp. Use your authority to look out for your crew, whether it's about crewfood, fatigue, illness or whatever.
I never hesitate to call in fatigued. I am an IOE-IP and know that newbies will get tired much quicker than normal crews because they have the added pressures of learning everything and performing to par. I always tell them that if they are fatigued, I will call in fatigued for the both of us.
Take control of your situation and do the right thing.

 

[Seat 0A]

What a bunch of crap, quit crying. If you have something to say to your FO's, say it. If you have something to say to the rest of us, say it on the Union board. What do you see happening for the good here?????

Hey 402, which part of it is crap? It is all based on REAL conversations with 4 REAL probationary FO's. And where in my post did you feel that I was attacking FO's? That is just plain retarded. It was a post in SUPPORT of FO's. In fact within 3 hours of the start of this post I was privately contacted by no less than 4 of them thanking me. I won't post those discussions but will take the liberty of a small excerpt. It starts: "You speak the truth!".

There is no crying going on here. If you could have seen these guys when I "did the right thing" for the crew you would have seen what looked like a 500 pound weight lifted from their shoulders. They actually sighed and said things like "man I really needed that extra rest, a Captain never did that before", or "I am so glad to not be stuck in a smoking room, I had two of them last tour and there was no way out of it". There is your bunch of crap.

 

[Seat 0A]

I've been flying fractional for 5 years. Never called in fatigue, and trust me, I've had my share of 14 hour days and 16 hour days. What you are really saying is that,with all your experiences at netjets ,no one goes that long without calling in fatigued. I mean, you actually say that no one goes 11 months without doing it. To me, that's pathetic. I thought you guys had it easy at netjets? That's all you talk about is how good it is over there; are you now saying that they work everyone so hard that fatigue is a problem across the board? Cry me a river.

Well, nothing more needs to be said about this one....but here it goes.

A lot of my days at NJA are pretty easy, and I usually don't fly more than 25 hours in a 7 day tour, but it only takes moving from the front side of the clock to the backside within 24 hours followed by a 14 hour day and you are fatigued. The only difference is whether or not you can determine that you are fatigued. Those of us who have actually studied this condition know that you are the absolute poorest judge of when this condition exists.

We may read about you someday. The article will make note of things like: He was up for 20 hours, Showed for duty at 0300, the hotel clerk said they were at the hotel for just 7 hours, etc. On the upside it may say "He never missed a minute of work" (that would be great on a tombstone).

Now, good luck and get out there and be a team player.