NJA 1st QTR Earnings

[BentOver]

I agree in that of course they wouldn't like NJI SIC's upgrading, but do NJA SIC's steam over it day in and day out.? Haven't seen one sign of that..

What I disagree with, concerning RAJ, is that all of us yes voters are now feeling remourse for doing so. That is simply not the case. I, and a huge majority seem very happy with the vote outcome.

Could IBB have been better? Of course it could have. Any contract negotiation can tilt more towards one side or the other.

Was I ever concerned about who upgraded at NJI vs. being able to drive 10 minutes to work and make a liveable wage right off the bat. Not at all. Now if those who voted for the '05 contract would have had the foresight to realize that creating a "B" scale basing system and pay disparity would produce negative results. Those of us who voted yes on IBB COULD HAVE read more into other sections of the IBB contract. But since the huge disparity exhisted, a large majority of us focussed in on basing and pay vs. what other sections could have gotten more attention. LESSONED LEARNED..DON'T VOTE FOR A CBA THAT CREATES HUGE "B" SCALES. AND THEN BRAG ABOUT HOW TOUGH EVERYONE WAS DURING '05. AND THEN EXPECT THOSE POST '05 TO FOCUS ON ANYTHING EXCEPT WHAT VASTLY IMPROVES THEIR OWN QOL. (not pointing fingers, just in general.)

NJA hasn't had a single upgrade since 2008+/-.... no NJA SIC would have directly benefitted from the NJI merger even if they didn't upgrade those SIC's early. It stings morally, but it would not have enabled any NJA SIC's to upgrade to even a Beechjet.

What it does effect is those that may have been able to move over to a GIV. Maybe not yourself, but some are bitter that they didn't get a chance to move from an NJA a/c to a GIV. But they certainly shouldn't be NJA SIC's. They would not have had the opportunity either way.

 

[imacdog]

Additionally, the strong pilot-friendly downgrade language in the contract is preventing the company from downgrading a very significant number of PICs.

 

[fischman]

IBB was a good thing. I voted yes for it, and I'd do it again.

It is easy to vote "no" on everything and say "I told you so" whenever someone cries foul.

It takes courage to vote yes.

 

[G4dude]

I don't know if I've seen a single compaint about the NJI merger from an NJA SIC on this board, nor do I remember seeing any on the union board. In fact, bringing the NJI flying in-house was a huge win for scope. Next please.

No complaints? I am definitely surprised. Pleasantly surprised.

 

[G4dude]

There is no point in listing all the shortfalls of IBB as we are 4 years into it. There were indeed some good points to it as well. In hindsight, based upon the current economic environment we live in, we are clearly better off with IBB. However, lots of language should have been added/clarified and could have been had we not been in such a hurry.

The massive GIV upgrade began in earnest after IBB. The slots negotiated for NJA pilots were filled per the contract, with one of three PIC slots going to NJA PICs, and SIC slots as well. But that was left seat to left seat, or right to right. The blatant upgrade after the agreement was negotiated and signed was done without regard to seniority. That was a huge oversight. There are quite a number if PICs and SICs senior to the GIV PICs. The most junior GIV PIC was hired in March 2006. You don't have a problem with that?

If you think the GIVs won't suddenly start going into disposal when/if Globals start arriving, you are sorely misguided. Want to bet the majority of Global pilots will be former NJI pilots? We need to include language that ANY new equipment will be open to the entire seniority list for those not seat locked. Another huge oversight.

I talked with a senior NJA guy, and he said, basically, that hiring into the Global will be DOH from the seniority list subject to seat lock considerations and stuff. Do you have information to the contrary?

 

[G4dude]

Yes I realize that there are NJI captains that would not be captains had the G's always been with the NJA seniority list. But guess what - they haven't been! While the damage has been done, the integration prevented further damage by putting the flying into one seniority list.

I agree.

 

[rajflyboy]

I talked with a senior NJA guy, and he said, basically, that hiring into the Global will be DOH from the seniority list subject to seat lock considerations and stuff. Do you have information to the contrary?

Jury is still out on this. We will find out the truth this spring.

 

[Pervis]

G, from one senior management type I heard seniority based as they know the can of worms a displacement bid would be real nasty. Then, from another senior management type in recurrent, it will be a combination. Based upon the total lack of cooperation and communication I will assume the worst and hope for the best.

 

[G4dude]

G, from one senior management type I heard seniority based as they know the can of worms a displacement bid would be real nasty. Then, from another senior management type in recurrent, it will be a combination. Based upon the total lack of cooperation and communication I will assume the worst and hope for the best.

Same here. I am surprised, however, that there seems to be confusion at the office about how Global staffing will be accomplished. My source is a senior A guy who came over the Gs several years ago, is a PIC, and is not management.

 

[G4dude]

Bent, the ratio of PIC to SIC was about the same across every fleet until the massive GIV upgades post IBB. Currently, there are over 100 PICs and less than 20 SICs in the GIV, or nearly 6:1. No other fleet has that imballance, even the 680, which took a huge hit in the furlough.

Every single SIC I see on the road or recurrent is not happy with that. The integration language could have simply included bypass pay like days of old. Then it wouldn't have mattered how many were upgaded out of seniority. The difference in salary amounts to tens of thousands each and every year.

I could care less if I ever fly a Gulfstream. The fact that seniority means less and less is what bothers me, as it should you. It is done though, and until we negotiate a new CBA, we'll have to live with it.

The lesson is to read every section very carefully and consider the "what if" factor far more than in times past. Pay and basing were mighty big carrots, and made it easy for many to overlook other shortcomings in the agreement. The sad part is the basing situation would have changed anyway. Did you know that 122 pilots came to get their free type rating in 2006 and quit? Do you think the company could have afforded to keep that up? It costs nothing to provide the current basing scheme, other than the fact management knew it was something we wanted very badly.

My understanding about G staffing is that we need more PICs because we tend to need quite a few crews all over the world to swap and continue the long trips. I have been part of several trips that tied up 3 or 4 crews at the same time, basically, between resting, flying, and standing by waiting in the hotel for our arrival. Some of these round the world trips are very complicated.