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A/C Basing:
Most of the 100 bases, if the IBB passes, will NOT have planes located there.
Planes are not "based" anywhere. There may happen to be one at your base when you start a tour, there may not. Depends on the needs of the owners.

SCHEDULE/PAY:
FO pay below is for < 40,000 MGTOW aircraft. It is theoretically possible you could get assigned to the heavier class of A/C. You will get more.
You will NOT be assigned to the heavier aircraft. Current FOs will bid those slots, since seat locks (39 months) will not restrict upgrade if available.

Start with 2 weeks of vacation: Year 0? Year 1?
Vacation begins accruing on date of hire. A new-hire will most likely have fewer than 2 weeks to bid the first time around, pro-rated to date of hire.

15 day reserve schedule:
You will be notified the night before of an airline ticket waiting for you at the 100 base airport.
Not necessarily. You might pick up an aircraft at your base, or you might take a cab, sedan, or rental car to another airport. You might have standby at home, though the company would be stupid to do that on the 15-day.

18 day reserve schedule.
It is voluntary...except, some pilots could be assigned to this schedule-instructors and the like-I don't think new hires.
New-hires will start on the 18-day.

Max trip 8 days (once per month).
Not once per month, once per bid period (4 months).
 
Hi!...

SCHEDULE/PAY:
FO pay below is for < 40,000 MGTOW aircraft. It is theoretically possible you could get assigned to the heavier class of A/C. You will get more.

Don't count it as even a "theoretical possibility". Existing SIC's will want the increased pay and the "Falcon lifestyle" as they await for an upgrade that is now running 5.5 years and forecast to go up.

Hi!...

SCHEDULE/PAY:

7/7:
7 work days/7 days off. If NJ wants you, you can extend a limited number of times for more money. This schedule COULD be used by up to 90% of a specific fleet. Using 1 week (7 days) of vacation gives you 21 days off in a row (just like at Mesa!).

Yr 1 FO 7/7 schedule: $57K
Yr 2: $59
Yr 3: $64
Yr 4: $66
Yr 5: $68
If the conditions are met, the contract extends 3 years:
Yr 6: $75
Yr 7: $80
Yr 8: $84


15 day reserve schedule:

Yr 1 FO 15 day reserve schedule: $63K
Yr 2: $65
Yr 3: $70
Yr 4: $73
Yr 5: $75
If the conditions are met, the contract extends 3 years:
Yr 6: $80
Yr 7: $83
Yr 8: $85


18 day reserve schedule.

Yr 1 FO 18 day work schedule: $69K
Yr 5: $83
If the conditions are met, the contract extends 3 years:
Yr 6: $88
Yr 7: $92
Yr 8: $94


If any of the above is wrong, please correct.

You are not correct on how the contract extension works. If the company meets the requirements in order to extend the contract and wishes to exercise its option, then all of the "basic" wage scales contained in Section 27.1 must be increased based off of the CPI-U on May 22 of 2013, 2014 and 2015 as a requirement for extension. It's not just service years 6-8 as your post seemed to indicate, but it's all service years on all of the schedules.

You were incorrect on several other items, too, but someone else has already corrected most of those.
 
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If all these 100 bases open up, how's that going to work? I'm in ICT, so, for example, would it mean that now, at the start of my 7 days, instead of me buying my own ticket to a base that the company will buy me the ticket? Or, are they planning on actually basing a/c at each of these bases? I'm kinda thinking that scenario 1 makes more sense.


Hopefully some of the subsequent posts in this thread cleared this area up for you. In a nutshell, on the days that you are scheduled to work the company will determine all your travel to/from your base airport (whether that be by rental car, taxi, sedan, airline, or NetJets aircraft (you riding in the back or you as a flying crewmember).

You mentioned that you reside in ICT. This is obviously a big maintenance center for our cessna fleets. So if you were assigned to one of these fleets, it would be more common for you to actually pick up a plane out of mx, there in ICT, than it would be for the others who reside in a location without a large mx facility. Make sense?

I live in GSO -- where a Cessna service center is located. At least 3 out of 10 trips I pick up a plane there to start my tour (and it's not half as big as the facility in ICT). At the end of my tour, I would say that I end up airlining about 95% of the time.

In a nutshell, just keep in mind that your "base" location has a lot to do with the way in which you will start your tour.
 
Yeah, that all clears it up quite a bit, thank you all! After learning that new-hires tend to get put on the 18 day reserve schedule, does that tend to mean you might get called up for a 2-3 day flight, then sent back home to sit, then called for a day, then back home, etc? Or do you sit reserve and, once called, then you're gone for your 7 from that point?

BTW, if any of you guys float through ICT sometime on a MX trip, PM me...I'll buy you a coffee or a refreshing adult beverage of your choosing! :D
 
On the current reserve schedule, plan on being used for a full seven days if you get called out and your hard days off don't require a shorter trip. Once you get called out for any length trip you get three days off afterward, unless it's a seven day trip in which case you'll get four days off after getting home. That's under the current system. The proposed 18-day fixed schedule would be set on the 15th of the month prior.
 
Don't count it as even a "theoretical possibility". Existing SIC's will want the increased pay and the "Falcon lifestyle" as they await for an upgrade that is now running 5.5 years and forecast to go up.

Not a super big deal but we ought to post accurate info. It actually looks like the upgrades are currently running just about 2 1/2 years. I will concede that those estimates look like they will go a lot longer pretty soon.

Cheers.
 
It actually looks like the upgrades are currently running just about 2 1/2 years. I will concede that those estimates look like they will go a lot longer pretty soon.

What is the reason for the increase in time to upgrade?
 
Not a super big deal but we ought to post accurate info. It actually looks like the upgrades are currently running just about 2 1/2 years. I will concede that those estimates look like they will go a lot longer pretty soon.

Cheers.

That "5.5 years to upgrade" figure came straight from the MEC chairman at an IBB presentation just a few weeks ago. He also made the comment that he believed that the time to upgrade is going to increase some.

I know that some of the people upgrading now have been here at about the mark you mention however for someone getting hired right now or for someone hired within the past year or so, it's not going to be a 2.5-year upgrade. I believe DC's comment are about right on target. No one getting hired in the near future should come in with any illusion of upgrading in 30 months.
 
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What is the reason for the increase in time to upgrade?

A lot of hiring is going on that is outpacing upgrades. Also, few of the senior guys are leaving. There was an interesting rumor that anywhere from 100 to 300 guys (depending on who you heard the rumor from) were going to leave after the last round of bonus payouts earlier this year for the 2005 contract but that hasn't materialized.

The company also shut down two fleets within the past year: the Hawker 1000 and the Citation VII. The PIC's took captain slots in other fleets and I believe most, if not all, of the SIC's in the retired fleets also moved to the left seat during the fleet reduction process. So that added some to the slowness of upgrades.

The company is supposed to have net growth of about 60 airframes in 2008 and 2009, so that should help. But it will still be a fairly long wait to upgrade for anyone getting hired in the near future. It won't be a 30-month upgrade.
 
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I will still make more money as a nj newhire than a 6 year captain at my current regional ASA *based on both companies new TA
 
Guitar Guy,

Dude, I totally agree with you that upgrades for those hired now are going to run a lot longer. To say that they are currently running at 5.5 years, though, is inaccurate.

No harm meant,
IP
 
BTW, I am totally frustrated with the amount of training slots at flightsafety. Currently this, I believe, is the biggest hinderance (sp?) to our growth as well as upgrades.
 
I will still make more money as a nj newhire than a 6 year captain at my current regional ASA *based on both companies new TA

I hear ya. Someone was trying to question me on the regionals board as to why I left RAH since I would have upgraded right about now and now have to sit in the right seat at NJA for possibly 5 years. Some guys just don't get it I guess. To each their own.

I'll make more as a first year FO than I would have as a 3 yr captain flying the E170 at RAH, assuming the IBB passes.
 
As far as the time-to-upgrade is concerned: if I were a new-hire today, I would "plan" for 4-5 years as an F/O. It obviously may turn out to be less than this amount of time...and if so, great. But the general belief is that the upgrade time will lengthen (as it has over the last 18 months). Retirements and additional airframes to the overall fleet (both of which are fluid factors here at NJA) will play important roles.

One other important thing to keep in mind, too, is that if the TA passes, I would expect to see a number of current captains transitioning to other, more junior fleets in order to gain relative seniority for schedule and vacation bidding purposes. As many know, the TA, while improving F/O pay dramtically, also eliminates the higher pay for most of the larger aircraft (ie, the "aircraft class" pay structure). Those fleets where the MTOW is less than 40,000 LBS (90+% of our planes maybe?) will all pay the same -- and some of the current captains in these fleets will probably consider bidding to a smaller aircraft (improving their relative seniority) since the pay will be the same. There may come a point where the Sovereign, X, Hawker and G200 fleets become the junior captain equipment (rather than the 560, XL and 400XP).

On the flip-side, those transitioning captains will also be "vacating" a captain seat in their original fleets...so over time, in theory anyway, it may not have that big of an impact long-term if the company stays on top of keeping the fleets sufficently staffed. But you can expect, in the short-run, to see a lot of the initial captain bids go to existing captains.

The F/Os may not be too happy about this, but at least the F/O wage in the TA is livable.
 

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