NJ A/C for newhires - Please rate in order.

[Going2Baja]

I did the search and came up empty. For all you NJ guys out there would you please rate in order of choice (and if your time permits) why you would want that a/c if you were a new hire.

My initial thoughts would be:
1) APU
2) Lav dump outside
3) F/A
4) Long Range
5) Location of Initial and recurrent training for the Sim.

Not being for a corporate background I couldn't tell the difference between an Ultra and an Excell or a Hawker 400 or 800.

And if it matters LAX base.

Thanks guys - hope to see you all soon.

Baja.

 

[widespreadpanic]

Which aircraft in the fleet have the lav dump external?


WP

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

My question is how much "ramp" work do you have to do at NetJets? I don't mind helping stow some bags, but are you doing a lot of lav dumps, or is there ground handleing at the FBO's NetJets uses? Thinking of coming over from Comair, but worried about the "culture shock." Never did the corporate type flying before.

 

[lodgepilot]

ramp work

mike
i think you might consider staying where you are.
we do clean, stock, jepps, catering, vac etc. everyday. sometimes its a businessman with on board beverages and snacks, sometimes its the family from hell that trashes the plane and steals everthing thats not nailed down.
my last 2 tours were with X Indy guys, and both hated it here. both great guys and pilots. they just thought we worked much to hard ( we do).
just my 2 cents.

 

[charley varrick]

Baja,

1. The one with the earliest start date.

Otherwise, I subscribe to the ignorance is bliss attitude. Go to whatever aircraft will afford you an earlier upgrade potential, namely the U-Boat or the 400XP. If you are coming to NetJets, face the fact that a non-apu aircraft is in your future as a Captain. As Lord Vader would say, "It is your destiny."

 

[Going2Baja]

mike
i think you might consider staying where you are.
my last 2 tours were with X Indy guys, and both hated it here. both great guys and pilots. they just thought we worked much to hard ( we do).

Any other X-commuter guys with experiences please PM me, I'd appreciate it. A friend of mine has a class date for the Excel and he is a RJ Capt. This is his only question about flying fractional.

I'd also still like some replies to the original question - rate the jets for a new hire.

Thanks - Baja.

 

[Going2Baja]

Baja,

1. The one with the earliest start date.

Otherwise, I subscribe to the ignorance is bliss attitude. Go to whatever aircraft will afford you an earlier upgrade potential, namely the U-Boat or the 400XP. If you are coming to NetJets, face the fact that a non-apu aircraft is in your future as a Captain. As Lord Vader would say, "It is your destiny."

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the F/O a/c have no affect on your upgrade? ie. Citation X for two years as f/o then upgrade to the U-boat? The reason I'm looking for some suggestions/comments is that if I have a choice, why not make the first couple of years comfortable in a cushy bigger jet?

Thanks - Baja.

 

[charley varrick]

You are correct. I was merely pointing out that, yes, your years as an FO will be much more pleasant in an apu aircraft. But when you have to upgrade you will be all the more miserable as a result of said years of "cushy" flying. Like being yanked out of first class to be sardined into a middle seat between two smelly sumo wrestlers. It is just my warped perspective, that's all.

 

[Mach92]

My question is how much "ramp" work do you have to do at NetJets? I don't mind helping stow some bags, but are you doing a lot of lav dumps, or is there ground handleing at the FBO's NetJets uses? Thinking of coming over from Comair, but worried about the "culture shock." Never did the corporate type flying before.

The "ramp" work you ask about is part of fractional flying. Yes you will load bags, yes you will get coffee, yes you will wipe down the lav (not service it the FBO does this) Remember this is a service business. The people we fly are the movers and shakers of the world. I flew 121 just like you. The only "culture shock" is attitude. If you come with an open mind you will be fine. However, if you do not want to clean planes, get catering, ice, sets of newspapers, and every now and then wipe down the lav then NetJets is not for you.

 

[Mach92]

I did the search and came up empty. For all you NJ guys out there would you please rate in order of choice (and if your time permits) why you would want that a/c if you were a new hire.

My initial thoughts would be:
1) APU
2) Lav dump outside
3) F/A
4) Long Range
5) Location of Initial and recurrent training for the Sim.

Not being for a corporate background I couldn't tell the difference between an Ultra and an Excell or a Hawker 400 or 800.

And if it matters LAX base.


Thanks guys - hope to see you all soon.

Baja.

Hard to say what plane any new hire would want. Depends do you want to fly your as! off or fly every now and then? As far as who works the most I would rate our planes in this order IMHO.

1. Excel: They fly all the time. Soon to be the biggest fleet. So if one break's easy to find another bird. Long days, short nights and at mach.74 this baby is SLOW!!!!!!! Be ready to work, work, work they get killed.

2. Citation X: We work all the time. If you have a plane your flying period. The X covers every plane we have and no owner who was expecting a excel or 400xp says "oh a X na don't want that" If you like international flying the X gets its fair amount. You will do mexico, western caribbean, some hawaii, central america, south america, canada, alaska, and some go to europe. Oh
and lets not forget more TEB-LAX SFO-BOS then you can count. Solid group of pilots in the X.

3. Ultra: Also a very busy fleet. Problem is you get stuck east of the mississippi most of the time. Hey if you like talking to washington and new york center this is your plane.

4. F-2000/F-2000EZ: I would rank this fleet 4th as far as working. Good plane from what I hear and having the flight attnedant is nice. Good mix of long and short trips + international like the X.

5. Hawker 800XP/PC: Not much to say but the pilots who fly these planes seem to love them. Good thing here is no inital training is done in Columbus. All sim and recurrents are in Wichita and Wilmington I believe.

6. G-200: Spend alot of time broke from what I hear. If I could hold it this would be the plane for me. Great cabin, nice cockpit, good mix of flying.

7. Hawker 400XP: New fleet 19 planes as of today I think. The big talk around CMH is they might be going to europe. I know NetJets is not happy with the performance (Gezz big shock) No external lav has the honey pot. Stays east of the mississippi most of the time so beware.

8. Cessna Sovereign: No idea if these boys work. Looks like a nice plane thou.

9. BBJ: Forget it you will never have the senority to hold it. All over the world!

10. G-IV-G-V: Ok Woofpack here ya go sorry to forget about our SCOPE!

 

[Heavy Set]

My question is how much "ramp" work do you have to do at NetJets? I don't mind helping stow some bags, but are you doing a lot of lav dumps, or is there ground handleing at the FBO's NetJets uses? Thinking of coming over from Comair, but worried about the "culture shock." Never did the corporate type flying before.

I do not fly for a fractional but I do fly corporate now after spending years in the airline and freight business. I didn't think I would enjoy it as much and I was wrong. Sure, you have to load some bags and wipe the lav occassionally - similar to wiping up your car after your kids mess it up. But the level of passenger interaction is what I enjoy and I never experienced that in an airline setting. I enjoy getting to know my passengers and ensuring that they have an enjoyable flight. I fly a high performance aircraft to interesting destinations (variety is so much better than airline flying - it isn't even close - I "discover" new destinations every week) and I take pride in my work.

C'mon, don't think that you will be doing so much heavy lifting - the FBO people do most of the work a lot of the time. Are you afraid of a little extra work and actually speaking with your passengers? It's not that bad. That being said, I'd love to have a Flight Attendant again - choose the Falcon 2000 if given the option....

 

[cathaywannabe]

I chose the Excel. Financially speaking it was an unwise choice, as I started on the NJA property prior to the new contract. If I chose the Ultra, I would have upgraded by now as many were seat locked and bypassed (this won't effect you as a potential new hire).

Regardless, I enjoy the Excel flying. I was tired of the "heavy redeye transcon" stuff. I believe the Excel is the smallest aircraft at NJA with an APU.

The Excel is enjoyable to fly. As the previous post said, I enjoy the FAR 91 flying much more than any FAR 121 job I've had.

 

[Heavy Set]

When you talk to the crews on the X, they all seem very tired. They also complain about the lack of comfort up front - minimal room for the longer flights. Did the Cessna engineers completely forget about ergonomics on this long-range aircraft? Seems like it would be a great aircraft to fly for 1-2 hours at a time - hopping around the Northeast. Flying frequently between BED and VNY or SNA could be difficult on the lower back after awhile... My Lear is uncomfortable after 90 minutes - I can't imagine 4+ hours in a tight cockpit.

Is the Soveregin just as uncomfortable up front on long-range flights? Have there been any improvement made ergonomically up front vs. the X?

 

[Qwertyuiop]

I did the search and came up empty. For all you NJ guys out there would you please rate in order of choice (and if your time permits) why you would want that a/c if you were a new hire.

My initial thoughts would be:
1) APU
2) Lav dump outside
3) F/A
4) Long Range
5) Location of Initial and recurrent training for the Sim.

Not being for a corporate background I couldn't tell the difference between an Ultra and an Excell or a Hawker 400 or 800.

And if it matters LAX base.

Thanks guys - hope to see you all soon.

Baja.

The only aircraft without an APU and externally-serviceable lav are the Hawker 400XP and Citation Ultra. I wouldn't choose either of these as a new hire, or even as an old hire. But with their short field capabilities you will be flying into airports you won't see in the X's or Falcons.

The only aircraft with flight attendants are the Falcons. FO on the Falcon is probably the easiest job at NetJets. You'll be flying with a much more senior group of captains than on the other fleets and will not likely be able to upgrade for a long time.

As a newhire, it's unlikely you'll be assigned the BBJ or Falcon 2000EX. You might be able to get a Falcon 2000 slot though.

You'll earn more pay flying the Excel because you'll be trained in both the XL and XLS and therefore receive an extra $2,700 per year in crossover pay. Good choice of aircraft.

The Hawker 800XP has virtually no baggage space and tends to be used for shorter day trips, so you'll work less: fewer bags to load, less catering to load, less cleaning up to do. It's a solid, reliable aircraft. If you have a choice, go for the version with the Collins avionics package - it's much nicer than the Honeywell version.

If you have a big ego, the Citation X would be a good aircraft to fly; no other aircraft can match its Mach 0.92 cruise speed. Be prepared to work hard. It covers every other fleet, has tons of baggage space, and there are plenty of them. Many fleets have their pilots working 12 hours a day on average for 7 days straight now, but in the X you'll be waking up 3 time zones away from where you woke up the day before. That can be rough on the body clock, especially if you're West Coast based.

The X's and Excels, being two of the larger fleets, do fly into the LA area a lot, which cuts down on the number of times you'll be airlining to and from your domicile (the worst part of the job in my opinion).

By and large, most pilots seem happy with whichever aircraft they fly, even the 400XP and Ultra crews.

 

[Heavy Set]

The only aircraft without an APU and externally-serviceable lav are the Hawker 400XP and Citation Ultra. I wouldn't choose either of these as a new hire, or even as an old hire. But with their short field capabilities you will be flying into airports you won't see in the X's or Falcons.

The only aircraft with flight attendants are the Falcons. FO on the Falcon is probably the easiest job at NetJets. You'll be flying with a much more senior group of captains than on the other fleets and will not likely be able to upgrade for a long time.

As a newhire, it's unlikely you'll be assigned the BBJ or Falcon 2000EX. You might be able to get a Falcon 2000 slot though.

You'll earn more pay flying the Excel because you'll be trained in both the XL and XLS and therefore receive an extra $2,700 per year in crossover pay. Good choice of aircraft.

The Hawker 800XP has virtually no baggage space and tends to be used for shorter day trips, so you'll work less: fewer bags to load, less catering to load, less cleaning up to do. It's a solid, reliable aircraft. If you have a choice, go for the version with the Collins avionics package - it's much nicer than the Honeywell version.

If you have a big ego, the Citation X would be a good aircraft to fly; no other aircraft can match its Mach 0.92 cruise speed. Be prepared to work hard. It covers every other fleet, has tons of baggage space, and there are plenty of them. Many fleets have their pilots working 12 hours a day on average for 7 days straight now, but in the X you'll be waking up 3 time zones away from where you woke up the day before. That can be rough on the body clock, especially if you're West Coast based.

The X's and Excels, being two of the larger fleets, do fly into the LA area a lot, which cuts down on the number of times you'll be airlining to and from your domicile (the worst part of the job in my opinion).

By and large, most pilots seem happy with whichever aircraft they fly, even the 400XP and Ultra crews.

If you live in the LA area, you'll need all the extra cash you can get... Go for the Excel or a wide body like the Galaxy or the 2000 if you are lucky. The X would be fun and ego-boosting, but bring one of those taxi-driver beeded things for your back on the longer flights.

 

[Nixon]

So, which aircraft would you consider to be the most comforable from a pilot's point of view, especially for longer trips?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

1. Excel
2. Citation X
3. Ultra
4. F-2000/F-2000EZ
5. Hawker 800XP/PC
6. G-200
7. Hawker 400XP
8. Cessna Sovereign
9. BBJ

Hey! What the heck man, Are we just chopped liver or what?

you forgot the (real) Gulfstreams.

First ya scream bloody murder about me, then ya just forget me.... I feel like the fat girl at the prom, thanks!

 

[Heavy Set]

So, which aircraft would you consider to be the most comforable from a pilot's point of view, especially for longer trips?

The Galaxy and Falcon have nice, wide cockpits. The Falcon also has a Flight Attendant like the Gulfstreams - that makes the FO's job a bit easier.

Hey Wolfpack,

Do you find the GIVSP cockpit comfortable on longer flights? How long before it becomes a bit uncomfortable?

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Hey Wolfpack,

Do you find the GIVSP cockpit comfortable on longer flights? It sucks, really! I've gotten in the 2000, it has much more leg/elbow room. How long before it becomes a bit uncomfortable? Right around the time the Captain calls for the "before starting engines" Checklist

4-6 hours in IV is not too bad, but 8-9 and my legs ache. Of course I am 6'3, so other pilots may not complain. Now the V... oh baby, that's the caddy!

 

[XTW]

If you have a big ego,

.........or a little pee pee...............:laugh:



X

 

[FracCapt]

5. Hawker 800XP/PC: Not much to say but the pilots who fly these planes seem to love them. Good thing here is no inital training is done in Columbus. All sim and recurrents are in Wichita and Wilmington I believe.

That's a good reason to avoid the Hawker.....Wilmington....yech! That place is a hole. When I went there(many years ago), all the instructors I had knew of(about half of the guys in the Hawker program) were guys that had either lost their job when the airplane was sold, or ex-airline...and all were bitter and pissed off. Some seemed ready to go postal. :uzi:

Did I mention that Wilmington sucked, too?

 

[Going2Baja]

Wilmington DE or Carolina? (Too tired to do a FS search.)

 

[Semore Butts]

Hawker, as far as I know...

The HAwker seat is the most confortable I have ever sat in.

 

[widespreadpanic]

Baja,

When is(was) your interview?



WP

 

[Going2Golf]

Wilmington DE or Carolina? (Too tired to do a FS search.)

Deleware.....
What could be bad about Wilmington, NC?

 

[AA717driver]

Baja--Tell your ASA buddy to get over himself. I was a TWA MD80 Captain and I haul trash and dump coffee and the lavs, if necessary. If he's squeamish about that he'd better stick with RJ's.

Wolfpack--You'd better change your thinking about fat girls at the prom. They are WAY underrated! I agree that the IV gets uncomfortable 30 sec. after I get in the seat. I haven't done anything longer than IND-EGE but that was enough. You'll find out in a couple of weeks...

XTW--Wasssup? TC

 

[XTW]

AA van driver,

Not much. Just sat at home a whole tour after not getting called out. Kind of a mid-winter break!:nuts:

It's weekend minutes, I figured you'd call.(cheap pr*ck)


X

 

[AA717driver]

X--No time. I'm working this weekend. Someone has to...TC