NJ 757 class?

[SeaSpray]

I have flown a lot of heads of state, cabinet officials, former U.S. Presidents...

BULL!!!

 

[SeaSpray]

I don't think that such a conflict of interest exists between a paid service provider and client. See Diesel's comment above. In fact the entire aim of providing superior service is to establish the customer's loyalty and ensure his repeat business.

It's pathetic the way you guys try to justify a practice you know to be wrong. Are you suggesting that you will perform in a less than "superior" way if you are not tipped?

Have you noticed that accepting tips is prohibited in most corporate flight departments? Does NJA/NJI have a policy on the acceptance of gratuities?

No matter how you spin it, you're allowing yourselves to be treated like waiters and doormen.


SS

 

[RTRHD]

BULL!!!

I don't get it what is Bull? I can show ya my tie-tacks w/#41 signature on it.(LOL)

 

[RTRHD]

It's pathetic the way you guys try to justify a practice you know to be wrong. Are you suggesting that you will perform in a less than "superior" way if you are not tipped?

Have you noticed that accepting tips is prohibited in most corporate flight departments? Does NJA/NJI have a policy on the acceptance of gratuities?

No matter how you spin it, you're allowing yourselves to be treated like waiters and doormen.


SS

I don’t even want a tip. Heck my position now I don’t even know we got one till the pax are gone (FO/unloading bags). I just let the FA have them.

 

[VVJM265]

It's pathetic the way you guys try to justify a practice you know to be wrong. Are you suggesting that you will perform in a less than "superior" way if you are not tipped?

Have you noticed that accepting tips is prohibited in most corporate flight departments? Does NJA/NJI have a policy on the acceptance of gratuities?

No matter how you spin it, you're allowing yourselves to be treated like waiters and doormen.


SS

SS,

To set the record straight, I'm not back on the civilian side of the fence yet. However, I do know just a bit about that side of life. I worked my way thru HS & college in the food service industy and then spent 2.5 yrs in the semiconductor industry as a Field Service Engineer before I came in the Navy. Now, I don't care how you want to slice or dice it to make yourself feel good, but the fact of the matter is that in the civilian world, no matter what level of the chop chain you are at, you are paid to provide a service to a customer. If you are the janitor, you are paid to clean the facilities and your customers are the other employees and the head of cleaning; if you are on the production floor you are paid to connect widget a to widget b and your customer is the next guy on the line and the folks buying the product; if you are the CEO you are being paid to use a skill set that you have demonstrated to lead the company to greater profits and your customers are the shareholders, the board and the conventional customers, the ones that pay to buy your gaget or service. All of this activity entails an exchange of energy in the form of money or other compensation. I stand by what I said before, the aim of superior customer service is to establish the customer's loyalty and ensure their repeat business.

Now if you reread my post, I didn't endose, nor condem, tipping wrt pilots. However, that can be a form of compensation that the customer desires to use to express their appreciation for the service provided. And, yes there is no conceptual difference between professions; again please see Diesel's comment about docs & lawyers. Personally, if it happened to me, I would politely say no thank you twice and if the pax insisted then accept, provided there were no company prohibitions against it, and then buy the crew drinks/dinner with it.

Now to connect the all this to the thesis in my original post, one can certainly take the the above argument and apply it to military service. Your ultimate customers are the citizens of the country, followed by whoever; in my case, I work on the training wing staff and my shop is there to support our four squadrons in their production effort. However, to expand on what I said before, there is a distinct conceptual difference between myself, who stood up and took the oath and wears the uniform, and the GSs in my shop. As you well know, or should have, there are tighter standards set upon the military member which are codified primarily in the UCMJ. To equate being a military DV pilot with corp/frax/135, is incorrect. While functionally the skill set is the same, the fact that the military pilot wears the uniform makes it entirely different. And therein lies the heart of the ethical quandary that one gets into if the are tips offered to to the military pilot.

The job of the civilian pilot is to get the customer from point a to point b safely as fast as possible, and especially in the frax business, with amenities according to their request, because that is what they are paying you to do. The job of the military logistics &/or DV pilot is to get the troops or the brass from point a to point b safely as fast as possible to faciliate the mission of protecting the country because that is your duty.

To condem the civilian pilot for taking a tip, or not, because one didn't accept them, or was never offered a tip while in the service is simply wrong because the two jobs have entirely different sets of standards and aims.

Off my soap box now,
265

 

[RustyFan]

Any pilot who has done additional duties should accept the tip with a smile.

Well then I'm going to send you my address, make the check out to "Republican National Committee".

I figure you owe me at least 3 grand for reading your bullsh*t day in and day out.

You are one twisted liberal chicken nuggett momma. How your husband comes home without crying I dont know. I pity the man (or mouse).


Rusty Fan,
(NASCAR just aint the same without him)

 

[RustyFan]

Or my thoughts that the NJ pilots and the NJI pilots need to find common ground and work on integration?

Hows this for intergration.

NJA pilot comes to NJI... goes to the bottom of the NJI list.

NJI pilot comes to NJA... goes to the bottom of the NJA list.

You keep your democratic, liberal tree hugging pro-union pilots at NJA, and the normal God fearing, respectable American Boys and Girls can come or stay at NJI!

 

[DO-82 driver]

Crusty....I am certainly glad you are in the minority when it comes to speaking for the NJI guys......

Your a bigger joke then I could ever realize...I'd love to meet you on the van going to the Embassy in TEB......I'd be curioius to see how big your mouth really is and if you really act like the jerk you appear to be on this web board.

 

[Diesel]

since when is a liberal a union member. I'm as far right as i can get.

Of course rustyfan is still pissed his wife won't come pick his flabby old a$$ up the airport. So he has to get on the message board and pick fights.

By the way you do a disserivce to rusty's name. He was a good guy and very respectful outside the pits. Unlike Stewart who is a crybaby.

 

[Spooky 2]

On Target Once More Please

Wow this has really drifted off subject. Bottom line, does anyone here think that NJ will be operating a B757 sometime soon? Just curious.

 

[RTRHD]

Wow this has really drifted off subject. Bottom line, does anyone here think that NJ will be operating a B757 sometime soon? Just curious.

It’s to late Spooky this has turned into a bar brawl. I am going to buy beer.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Spooky......YES...NJA will be operating a, or several, 757's much sooner than later. Several ACP's have confirmed it.

 

[Spooky 2]

Spooky......YES...NJA will be operating a, or several, 757's much sooner than later. Several ACP's have confirmed it.

Absolutely no offense intened but how would you have this knowledge as your profile would probably exclude you from the rank and file NJ decision makers. BTW, what is a ACP? What kind of role would you imagine these Boeing would play? High end corporate or Part 121 supplemental?

Thanks and again, no offense just curious.

 

[DO-82 driver]

No offense taken....I certainly don't know anyone in the "decision" making process, however, I have flown the line with a number of people who are now "psuedo-management" in CMH. These are the Assitant Chief Pilots (ACP's). The ACP's carry out the orders.....a number of them have told me about the 757's.

As to who the clients would be.......people with a heck of alot more money than you or I....that's for sure!!!!

I'm not even sure of the seating configuration.....all I know is that becasue they weigh more than 100K.....NJA "Yellow Ties" will be upfront.

Thank you Local 1108 for yet another great contract clause ensure our job security.

 

[johnsonrod]

No offense taken....I certainly don't know anyone in the "decision" making process, however, I have flown the line with a number of people who are now "psuedo-management" in CMH. These are the Assitant Chief Pilots (ACP's). The ACP's carry out the orders.....a number of them have told me about the 757's.

As to who the clients would be.......people with a heck of alot more money than you or I....that's for sure!!!!

I'm not even sure of the seating configuration.....all I know is that becasue they weigh more than 100K.....NJA "Yellow Ties" will be upfront.

Thank you Local 1108 for yet another great contract clause ensure our job security.

Any idea on an approximate announcement date? A couple weeks/months/years? I am sure the 757s would be popular at NJME if NJA can't find enough share owners...

 

[MACH-TUCK]

[camera zooms in past long line at Airport Medical Clinic to focus on gunfyter standing in the roped off area designated for drug testees] TC

LMFAO.......You made me puke up my mac and cheese man!!!

 

[GEXDriver]

Does NJA/NJI have a policy on the acceptance of gratuities?

SS

VVJM265 doesn't know SeaSpray, he has the same amount of civilian VIP flying experience as NetJetWife and is just as willing to offer his unfounded opinion. He knows he isn't going to get a position in a corporate flight department so he's kissing up to the boys in the fracs.


VVJM265

Blah, blah, blah...To condem the civilian pilot for taking a tip, or not, because one didn't accept them, or was never offered a tip while in the service is simply wrong because the two jobs have entirely different sets of standards and aims.

Apparently reading comprehension is not a Navy skill, or are you a Marine? That would explain a lot. What part of this post do you not understand?

When I was in my military uniform no [one] would have dreamed of offering me a gratuity. They repected me as a professional pilot...I have never expected that to be any different in my civilian uniform.

On another level, at two of my subsequent positions the company Ops Manuals have specifically prohibited the acceptance of gratuities.

The guy flys Gulfstreams for a Fortune 50 company and he's saying the standards are the same - no tipping - not only at his present company, but also at his previous civilian employer as well.

And just as case you missed it my post as well, my company operations manual also states that tips will be politely declined.

 

[Grizz]

You sure can tell that the NJI guys don't like that the bids for G-Whiz Captain and F/O were released this week. "Ask not for whom the bell tolls..."

 

[wolfpackpilot]

You sure can tell that the NJI guys don't like that the bids for G-Whiz Captain and F/O were released this week.

Says who?

Your going to be surprised how the NJI pilots treat the transplants. As long as they keep those tacky tie pins with horses and rotary wheels in their pockets, I dont think anyone will skip a beat.

And I expect the same when I bid over to Captain in that big weird looking Citation XIVIIVXXVI (or what ever it is) in 4 years.

 

[DO-82 driver]

Wolf....As long as you wear that tacky tie pin with the horses and rotary wheel on your jacket lapel you'll get the respect you deserve....from your fellow pilots and, more importantly, from Management!!!!!!

I understand you'll enjoy the Ultra or 400XP....

 

[h25b]

I understand you'll enjoy the Ultra or 400XP....

I really think you all should park the attitude, bid the G's if you like, and go over to just get along to just make this whole thing work. That would be the best course of action. Especially in light of the fact that this whole mess still needs to survive a single carrier petition, you all need to get along.

And yes, I've owned one of those pins and yes, they are tacky...

 

[DO-82 driver]

The overwhelming majority of NJI folks I have had the pleasure of meeting at pleased at the contract we got. They do not feel threaten or concerned about losing their jobs because the "Yellow ties" will be flying the "G's".

The future may hold a merger between the 2 groups...time will tell. If it should happen, the professionalism that both side demonstrate in their respective cockpits will prevail and things will get done.

I just think its fun yanking the chain of a few "select" individuals on this board.....They provide a good number of us a certain amount of entertainment.

 

[h25b]

I just think its fun yanking the chain of a few "select" individuals on this board.....They provide a good number of us a certain amount of entertainment.

I couldn't agree more... You've been one my personal favorites!

Anyone that flys for a living is happy that you've gotten a better deal, aren't we all glad to see more money ? I would just hope while you enjoy the fruits of your labor you ALL do it with a certain amount of class.

 

[DO-82 driver]

I think if you ever have a chance to see NJA,NJI, EJM, Flex, FLOP's and CS guys sitting around together at various FBO's you'll realize that most of us see eachother in a much better light then what might be displayed on this Board.

Heck, we've actually been known to share crew cars and ride in airport shuttles together.....Of course....seniority first.

 

[Hawk Driver]

I've heard from some friends in CMH that there are already many training on the plane from mx to pilots. I hear that we are trying to get a 121 certificate and would likely be flying around some sports teams with them. EJM already does charter on large airplanes like these through others 121 certificates.

HD

 

[gunfyter]

i have heard this too but I must have missed the 757 bid.... How can pilots be training if there was no bid?

 

[netjetwife]

My husband has only heard that NJ had been approached by an owner of a 757 to manage it for him. Wouldn't there have been a big announcement if they were already training people? I'm with Gunfyter on this one.

 

[RTRHD]

I just heard it was a EJM deal.

 

[Hawk Driver]

i have heard this too but I must have missed the 757 bid.... How can pilots be training if there was no bid?

I would have thought also. I've heard that NJA has hired a company to write all the 121 material needed to get certified and are looking at possibly buying someone else's certificate.

The planes would come from a company already flying the teams around, we would just take over management. I don't believe that NJA would actually purchase these planes.

I don't have any first hand knowledge of who the personnel in training are, but the source is pretty reliable.

HD

 

[gunfyter]

What happened to the 121 certificate Executive Jet had flying 707s?