NJ 757 class?

[netjetwife]

I'm not in hiding; I'm working on my personal fight for justice. I didn't introduce the subject of tips on a thread about the 757. But since you guys are interested in that topic..... They aren't handouts. Tips are a monetary expression of appreciation for a job well done and are given to pilots who perform services above and beyond their flying duties. Some of you obviously needed a refresher on the etiquette rules with regard to tipping pilots. Any pilot who has done additional duties should accept the tip with a smile. Not all NJ pilots are paid professional wages. Some are still underpaid just as many other frac pilots are.


The FedEx job was an instructor position which would have required our family to move to Memphis. We weren't interested in doing that. Not that that had anything to do with the topic of the thread, but just to set the record straight. He turned it down for American. Things have worked out well for us. My husband is pleased to be at NJ and his salary now justifies his time away from home. Speaking of that....

Obviously, some members of the board are lacking in manners. I fail to see what personal attacks have to do with the issues. I'm sure your families look forward to your time at home. I wouldn't insult any of you, or them, by suggesting otherwise. The PMs I receive regularly tell me that the opinion of the vocal minority isn't shared by others.

 

[xcrew]

I'm not in hiding; I'm working on my personal fight for justice. I didn't introduce the subject of tips on a thread about the 757. But since you guys are interested in that topic.....

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, ad naseum.uke:

 

[RTRHD]

There you are NJW. Chill out, I am sure it was all in good fun. I would say if you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. But that is not appropriate here. (No put down intended) I would like to be the first to say I am sorry if anything I said offended you. I understand if you want to participate in your husband’s company affairs. But you did start something here.

 

[netjetwife]

Thanks for the apology, RT. I found the 31/0 comments offensive. Considering the time pilots spend away from home that is an area that their spouses are vulnerable to when someone wishes to insult them. It's a low blow. It was my hope that pointing out the lack of respect will serve to raise awareness. Many pilots won't come to this board because of the insulting tone that is too often posted here. I don't think it's fair for a few to ruin the reputation of a board that has the potential to be a good source of information and camaraderie for many.

I think anyone whose life is affected by a pilot's job in the industry has the right to participate in a discussion of the issues. I have learned to step past the waste to get to the informative posts. Given the number of times I have posted here, obviously I can stand the heat. That said, I don't think anyone should have to do that in order to discuss things.

I'm confused as to what you think I started. Are you referring to my belief that the frac pilots would do well to exercise their right to collectively bargain for a fair contract? Or my thoughts that the NJ pilots and the NJI pilots need to find common ground and work on integration? The "fence" now has a gate in it, RT, and NJ pilots are starting to go through it. With all due respect, it is no longer just your side. It's now one of the current events that affects my husband's job and so I'm paying attention to what the pilots say about it.
NJW

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Thanks for the apology, RT. I found the 31/0 comments offensive. Considering the time pilots spend away from home that is an area that their spouses are vulnerable to when someone wishes to insult them. It's a low blow. It was my hope that pointing out the lack of respect will serve to raise awareness. Many pilots won't come to this board because of the insulting tone that is too often posted here. I don't think it's fair for a few to ruin the reputation of a board that has the potential to be a good source of information and camaraderie for many.

I think anyone whose life is affected by a pilot's job in the industry has the right to participate in a discussion of the issues. I have learned to step past the waste to get to the informative posts. Given the number of times I have posted here, obviously I can stand the heat. That said, I don't think anyone should have to do that in order to discuss things.

I'm confused as to what you think I started. Are you referring to my belief that the frac pilots would do well to exercise their right to collectively bargain for a fair contract? Or my thoughts that the NJ pilots and the NJI pilots need to find common ground and work on integration? The "fence" now has a gate in it, RT, and NJ pilots are starting to go through it. With all due respect, it is no longer just your side. It's now one of the current events that affects my husband's job and so I'm paying attention to what the pilots say about it.
NJW

really no offense meant, NJW.

but its odd you come here an expose you personal life so openly. Its a public internet board full of strangers. You come here seeking "comraderie" - thats odd. Most come here seeking info on jobs, job leads, operational questions...and a bit of humor to kill time on overnights. Not comraderie. The internet is not that.

Aside from the negative tones, maybe people dont post here becuase they are sick of hearing the same broken record, 4 yr. old whining from you.

clips from a single post from you (just 2 posts ago):




I'm working on my personal fight for justice. (good god shut up)


Not all NJ pilots are paid professional wages. (same as above)



The FedEx job was an instructor position which would have required our family to move to Memphis. We weren't interested in doing that. Not that that had anything to do with the topic of the thread, but just to set the record straight. He turned it down for American. Things have worked out well for us.

(why would you EVER share such personal stuff with millions of strangers on the web?)


Are you referring to my belief that the frac pilots would do well to exercise their right to collectively bargain for a fair contract?

(oh yeah, we know your belief by now)



It just goes on and on...its wonderful you are so concerned but you have become a broken record, that uneducated voice that chimes up the same garbage every single freakin time without missing a beat.

Trust us, everyone in this industry wants to see all other pilots make more money, have better QOL etc...there is less us-vs-them than you think.

And yeah, maybe a little more time in the kitchen and off your Union stool would get you accustomed to the heat?

 

[RTRHD]

I was not trying to insult you. I was laughing at a post someone else made. You started something on another thread and the board was messing up so I could not rebut properly. I am just old fashion if your husband wants to come to NJI send a resume to SC. We have a very rare thing here most everyone gets along. I go to work and meet my new friends. As far as the gate issue it is far from resolved. (remember the three year thing) Just my opinion.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Just a few clippings:



I'm working on my personal fight for justice.


no, really?


Tips are a monetary expression of appreciation for a job well done and are given to pilots who perform services above and beyond their flying duties.


tips are for waitresses and limo drivers. Professionals dont get tips, they get salaries.


Some of you obviously needed a refresher on the etiquette rules with regard to tipping pilots. Any pilot who has done additional duties should accept the tip with a smile.


no he should be embarassed.


Not all NJ pilots are paid professional wages.


did they not know the salary at sign-on or were they "lied" to like Mr F-16?


The FedEx job was an instructor position which would have required our family to move to Memphis. We weren't interested in doing that. Not that that had anything to do with the topic of the thread, but just to set the record straight. He turned it down for American.


why would you share such personal info with the entire world on the web?



the opinion of the vocal minority isn't shared by others.

repeat after me..."a rising tide"...







one might consider seeking comraderie off the internet.

 

[netjetwife]

RT, no offense to NJI, but my husband is happy at NJA. Likewise, he has made new friends on the job. My reference to a gate applies to the contract provision that mandates a set percentage of NJI openings will now go to NJA pilots. I was not referring to the future three year thing. I know that has yet to be settled.

GS200, I explained what I have been doing because I was asked. Furthermore, it gives hope to others facing their own private battles. I know that from the PMs that I have received.

The etiquette rule which governs the tipping of pilots is just that-- from experts in that area. Your opinion isn't shared by all pilots. (More PMs on the subject).

Many NJ pilots were misled in their interviews, yes. Many others were hired while the contract was under negotiation. Those currently taking the job know that the contract will be negotiated again and the payscale now makes the job worth staying for.

Others have discussed the problems they see with commuting and/or being required to move. It was relevant to the discussion when I first mentioned it many posts ago. That said, it must be noted that I'm not the one who brought the FedEx job offer up on this thread.

If everyone in the industry wanted to see pilots make more money those at Flex trying to achieve that goal wouldn't be seeing any opposition at all. From posts made here that doesn't seem to be the case. 33% of the Options pilots weren't interested in trying to get a contract. A slim minority of NJ pilots even voted for the pathetic TA they were offered before the CBA passed. Unfortunately, not all pilots side with the pilots that are trying to raise the bar.

Friendships can be, and have been, made on this board. PMs can evolve into phone calls and end up with couples making plans to meet. (Personal experience). Pilots can discuss posts made here with others while they're out on tour. That happens frequently. Topics discussed here may be of little interest to others in the readers'/posters' life so this forum fills that niche. I daresay the moderators of FlightInfo believe that it is a source of camaraderie worth providing.

 

[h25b]

who said we are adequately compensated? .... I know Gulfstream 200 thinks the pay is too low! and would never work for such wages. H25B says "I can't think of a worse hell."

A steady diet of Rudy's catering, choosing between TEB, CMH, LAX, PBI as domiciles, 7 OFF / 7 ON .... uke:

Yep, sounds like hell to me...

 

[GEXDriver]

The etiquette rule which governs the tipping of pilots is just that-- from experts in that area. Your opinion isn't shared by all pilots. (More PMs on the subject).

The rule in our company Flight Operations Manual is that gratuities from passengers will be politely declined. Personally, I think being offered a tip would be demeaning. What experts are you consulting? I think the experts are the guys that have been doing this job for over 20 years. Here's what one of them had to say.

... I'm still doing what the military trained me to do. I was in the military VIP community for many years with domestic and overseas postings. I served my final six years at Andrews AFB. When I was in a military uniform no senior officer, politician, or foreign dignitary would have dreamed of offering me a gratuity. They respected me as the professional pilot and military officer that I was. I have never expected that to be any different in my civilian uniform.

On another level, at two of my subsequent positions the company Ops Manuals have specifically prohibited the acceptance of gratuities.

On a personal level, I consider myself to be a professional just as an airline captain is or as is a doctor or a lawyer. I would never consider trying to push an envelope with a tip enclosed under the reinforced cockpit door for the 777 captain who had just given me a smooth flight to Paris. Nor would I attempt to slip a Benjamin into the hand of a cruise ship captain at the completion of a particularly nice Caribbean cruise. I have also never considered tipping my doctor for a good surgical procedure or my dentist for a nice cap or my lawyer for executing a legal document professionally. I think they would be insulted.

How many Heads of State have your experts flown?

 

[Diesel]

Having someone go above and beyond for me will allways get a tip. If you don't think that doctors and lawyers get tipped then you're high.

While it may not be a cash in the hand a gift usually shows up at the door. I've seen patients buy doctors nice fishing reels and fly rods. The shelves are full of them. It's a very nice gesture.

Even doctors that are getting treatments give other doctors a gift at the end of the treatment. It's a fact and a nice way to say thank you for helping me.

 

[Spooky 2]

Back on the thread topic B757

As some here have noted, Paul Allen, aka, Vulcan Flight Management does operate two B757's. One is dedicated to sports team travel and the other is mostly used for personal travel, although it to is used for team travel on occasion. Now it just so happens that the Sr. Director of Aviation came to his current position from Net Jets where he was a VP of Operations. I believe that he maintains a good professional relationship with NJ and in fact has brought a few former NJ people into the current day VFM ops. Vulcan has in the past had as many as eight NJ shares that they acquired from companies that they have purchsed so they ar not oblivious to the NJ operations.

The fact is that VFM has lost a lot of personnel since the first of the year and I understand that in many cases these folks are not being replaced when they exit the company. So..............maybe there is some interest in using the services of NJ? Does NJ have a Part 121 Supplemental certificate? If not neither of these aircarft would be able to work hard enough to make any project like this meaningful. The Part 125 certificate will not let you hold out for charter, so it's hard to imagine a business case for anything other than a Part 121 operation.

Disclaimer!

All of the above is speculation and should not be taken as gospel. VFM has a pretty darn good group of pilots and I would feel bad for them if they took it in the shorts for some business plan that was sold to the boss by an over reaching Dir of Flight Ops. Having said that. NJ executives have been on the property in the past year so let the speculation continue.

Also, Vulcan has used outside management companies in the past and decided that that was not in their best interest, so anything like this would be a big change from past practice.

 

[SkyGirl]

Having someone go above and beyond for me will allways get a tip. If you don't think that doctors and lawyers get tipped then you're high.

While it may not be a cash in the hand a gift usually shows up at the door. I've seen patients buy doctors nice fishing reels and fly rods. The shelves are full of them. It's a very nice gesture.

Even doctors that are getting treatments give other doctors a gift at the end of the treatment. It's a fact and a nice way to say thank you for helping me.

It's not the same thing. Cash is crass.

A gift exchange between professionals is another thing entirely. I gave my attorney a case of Grey Goose after he helped me conclude a particularly tricky real estate transaction, but I wouldn't have dreamed of rounding his bill off to the nearest $100 if I ever wanted him to represent me again.


_SkyGirl_

 

[VVJM265]

Back to the sidebar on tips...

... I'm still doing what the military trained me to do. I was in the military VIP community for many years with domestic and overseas postings. I served my final six years at Andrews AFB. When I was in a military uniform no senior officer, politician, or foreign dignitary would have dreamed of offering me a gratuity. They respected me as the professional pilot and military officer that I was. I have never expected that to be any different in my civilian uniform.

There is a distinct difference between a military officer's service to the the country and constitution and a service provided by other professionals that engage in an activity for a livelyhood such as pilots, doctors and cab drivers. While I can't find it on the defenselink ethics web site, I'm fairly certain that at a minimum, it creates a conflict of intrest for a senior officer or official to offer a gratuity for what would be consider normal duty. If there was exceptional service provide by the military member, then a more appropriate way is for the senior to offer some token, such as a command coin, to the crew, or better yet write a letter of appreciation or commendation to the member's commanding officer.

I don't think that such a conflict of interest exists between a paid service provider and client. See Diesel's comment above. In fact the entire aim of providing superior service is to establish the customer's loyalty and ensure his repeat business.

How many Heads of State have your experts flown?

No heads of state but in two tours flying DV support, I've flown plenty of DoD officials. I was also the base protocol officer for one of the Navy's overseas bases for 2.5 years. I engaged with the JAG on these types of issues fairly often. In fact one time, we had to pointly remind a pair of congressmen that we could not arrange for base transportation for their planned shop/tour-x. We got them a private hire driver and vehical and they paid out of pocket.

my 10c,
265

 

[gunfyter]

Our Squadron flew many heads of state... including John Paul II.

 

[RTRHD]

I have flown a lot of heads of state, cabinet officials, former U.S. Presidents. The crew split up a sack of money a number of times. (From Middle East officials) But now I just give my thirty-three dollars to the FA.

 

[gunfyter]

when you fly heads of state you receive medallions, pens, coins, sometimes coffee cups.

 

[RTRHD]

How do you spell trinket's. (Tie -Tacks)

 

[gunfyter]

trinkets? I think the guys who flew the Pope got special dispensation.

So they got that going for them....

 

[Diesel]

Sky girl if done with class and in certain situations giving cash is just like giving money.

I'm sure you spent a bunch of time with a lawyer and got to know his likes and dislikes. What about a couple of charter pilots you're spending just 2 hours to get you home asap. How do you say thank you for your hard work and getting me home?

100 bucks for some beers and steaks.