NICE Job Continental Airlines

[Flopgut]

What we have too many of in aviation right now is two kinds of people: The kind that think aviation would be better if it weren't for all the airplanes (for example the kind of people running this airport), and the second is the kind of people who will second guess anything a flight crew/airline does. It's really dispicable.

When you talk about the size of the airplane and responsibility make sure you're seeing the arguement both ways. What if this were a heavy airplane with 300+ customers? You keep them on the plane or you're going to hurt a lot of people.

This Expressjet Captain is ready to fly big planes IMHO. Astro and Glasspilot, I'd worry about you two.

 

[glasspilot]

Does IMHO stand for "I Might Have nOidea"?

She's ready for the "big iron" you say? Based on this stellar example of superior Captainship? Great.

She could have ordered a bee keeper to deliver a swarm during the overnight and you'd criticize me for suggesting that might have been a bad idea. "She's the Captain! There are two types...those that respect the Captain and those that aren't ready for big planes...IMHO"

whatever...I've flown little CRJ's and 727's and I've never forced my pax spend the night on board. Guess I'm not cut from the right cloth. Oh well.

 

[Flopgut]

Crew, customers and aircraft were safe and secure. Could things have gone better? Yep! But they could have also gone worse.

Have you ever supervised pilots? Just curious.

 

[waka]

Glasspilot: I stand by my comments on de-reg, and that I don't believe an airliner can just show up at an FBO. You and I know your asking for an injury and compromising safety and as uncomfortable as those customers were, they weren't in harms way.

In this case, reality and what you "don't believe" are completely different things. Yes, an airliner can just show up at an FBO. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't. A quick call on the radio would have easily solved the problem.

 

[astroglider]

Flopgut said:
"When you talk about the size of the airplane and responsibility make sure you're seeing the arguement both ways. What if this were a heavy airplane with 300+ customers? You keep them on the plane or you're going to hurt a lot of people."

"This Expressjet Captain is ready to fly big planes IMHO. Astro and Glasspilot, I'd worry about you two."


Wow Flopgut...after watching folks board and deplane using an airstairs many times over the last couple of decades on the 727, L1011, 737, 757/767...as well as many smaller aircraft I have yet to see anyone injured on an airstair.

Flopgut tell us how we are going to hurt a lot of people by deplaning them on an airstair?

...and why should we see the arguement both ways as you say? This wasn't a 300+ airliner, so why even bring that up. Had it been a 747 and there was no airstair available then sure...keep the folks onboard...you'd certainly NOT want to blow the slides...is that what you were thinking? In that case keep the folks onboard. IN THIS CASE there was an airstair available...it would have been safe to use it. Therefore common sense would dictate you deplane the aircraft not JUST SIT THERE FOR SEVEN HOURS, without food, without water!

How you defend the Captain's decision to just sit there for seven hours blows me away!!! Use some common sense here, holy cow!

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE A PASSENGER BILL OF RIGHTS???? IF we act like Flopgut and Phrog4ever and that's what we'll have. Don't you think we have enough government regulation already???

Astro

 

[Flopgut]

In this case, reality and what you "don't believe" are completely different things. Yes, an airliner can just show up at an FBO. There is absolutely no reason why they couldn't. A quick call on the radio would have easily solved the problem.

Can you do it safely? No. Not safe enough. And if you do, where do they go then? You let them out of the plane in that scenario and you'll have them scattered all over the ramp. You'll have one walk into a moving prop, get run over by a tug, or walk out onto the runway. Bad will go to worse real quick. I realize that Expressjet operates these same type aircraft in a charter scenario and they understand FBOs, but this was different. There is no telling what these customers would have done. The instant their feet hit the concrete the camera phones will be on and in the crew's faces, the screaming will start, some a$$hole will try to open the cargo, another will put their face into a static wick, they'd be calling CNN, etc, etc. Hey, maybe the customers would have been perfectly mannered and maybe they park at FBOs in their Barons ten times a month, but you can't give customers the benefit of the doubt. Not these days. They haven't earned it.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut said:
"When you talk about the size of the airplane and responsibility make sure you're seeing the arguement both ways. What if this were a heavy airplane with 300+ customers? You keep them on the plane or you're going to hurt a lot of people."

"This Expressjet Captain is ready to fly big planes IMHO. Astro and Glasspilot, I'd worry about you two."


Wow Flopgut...after watching folks board and deplane using an airstairs many times over the last couple of decades on the 727, L1011, 737, 757/767...as well as many smaller aircraft I have yet to see anyone injured on an airstair.

Flopgut tell us how we are going to hurt a lot of people by deplaning them on an airstair?

...and why should we see the arguement both ways as you say? This wasn't a 300+ airliner, so why even bring that up. Had it been a 747 and there was no airstair available then sure...keep the folks onboard...you'd certainly NOT want to blow the slides...is that what you were thinking? In that case keep the folks onboard. IN THIS CASE there was an airstair available...it would have been safe to use it. Therefore common sense would dictate you deplane the aircraft not JUST SIT THERE FOR SEVEN HOURS, without food, without water!

How you defend the Captain's decision to just sit there for seven hours blows me away!!! Use some common sense here, holy cow!

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO HAVE A PASSENGER BILL OF RIGHTS???? IF we act like Flopgut and Phrog4ever and that's what we'll have. Don't you think we have enough government regulation already???

Astro

The larger truth here is that safety prevailed. In irregular ops customers ought to be able to stand being a little uncomfortable. Tough decision to divert to this airport and certainly a tough decision to keep them on board. There would be plenty of harsh critique going on no matter what they did. But there was no damage and no injuries. This issue got full, complete and immediate attention right away from the very highest authorities and they pegged the blame on someone other than the operator and the crew. You should not want to miss an opportunity to applaud that. That's a huge plus for all of us that do this and, in fact a credit to airlines in a possible passenger bill of rights effort. We [airlines] more often than not are blamed for EVERYTHING and in this case customers learn there are more parties in the equation than just the airline and the crew.

 

[Flopgut]

Wow Flopgut...after watching folks board and deplane using an airstairs many times over the last couple of decades on the 727, L1011, 737, 757/767...as well as many smaller aircraft I have yet to see anyone injured on an airstair.

Flopgut tell us how we are going to hurt a lot of people by deplaning them on an airstair?


Astro

I've seen a lot of injuries. Lot's of unsafe scenarios.

One broken bone in this goatrope and the whole thing would have been the airline/captain's fault in a completely new way. There would be no emphasis on learning why the airport wasn't functioning or how to prevent this from happening again. There would instead be 40+ lawsuits, injuries more than likely, and a crew with ruined futures. Is that what you would have preferred to see here? Is that really why you're upset? You wanted to see that sort of thing? I hope not.

 

[Britpilot]

I've seen a lot of injuries. Lot's of unsafe scenarios.

One broken bone in this goatrope and the whole thing would have been the airline/captain's fault in a completely new way. There would be no emphasis on learning why the airport wasn't functioning or how to prevent this from happening again. There would instead be 40+ lawsuits, injuries more than likely, and a crew with ruined futures. Is that what you would have preferred to see here? Is that really why you're upset? You wanted to see that sort of thing? I hope not.

It could have been done very easily and safely. XJT uses stairs and hardstands all the time in IAH with no problem at all, been doing that for years. All that was required was some coordination with the FBO folks and the three crew members, easy.
You are coming across as a drama queen, why would there be 40 law suits and broken bones, people walking into props? FBO personal are used to ramp safety, it's their job. For the record, I have unloaded 50 PAX at an FBO in the past at an off line airport and guess what, no injuries or law suits, just folks happy to be off the airplane.

 

[Flopgut]

It could have been done very easily and safely. XJT uses stairs and hardstands all the time in IAH with no problem at all, been doing that for years. All that was required was some coordination with the FBO folks and the three crew members, easy.
You are coming across as a drama queen, why would there be 40 law suits and broken bones, people walking into props? FBO personal are used to ramp safety, it's their job. For the record, I have unloaded 50 PAX at an FBO in the past at an off line airport and guess what, no injuries or law suits, just folks happy to be off the airplane.

Well that's great that it worked out for you, and I realize Expressjet charter uses FBOs and that many times things go normal. So why didn't they do that this time? I'm inclined to side with the crew's decisions. Must have been some lack of willingness on the part of the FBO.

Most importantly guys, oversight has firmly laid blame with someone other than the airline and the crew!! That's a good thing for all of us.