Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

News Anchor does story on regional pay

  • Thread starter Thread starter EUT
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 10

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
EUT,

This type of story has been done before. So have several TV segments on lack of rest, etc. The impact on the "public" was zero and no changes resulted from any of these peices. The FAA ignored the "rest" problems as they have for decades. Sad but true.

Take your own advice. If you are "new" and with a non-union company, don't do this. It will gain you nothing, it will gain us nothing and it just might cost you your job.

The "public" cares about what they pay for a seat. They couldn't care less about what you're paid. The general public despises unions and union labor. If that was not so most workers would belong to unions. The fact is most do not.

Additionally, the concept of indentured service is as popular with employers (and the indentured, believe it or not) today as it ever was. Just look at the "success" of WalMart and you'll be able to understand that.

I don't like being so cynical but sometimes it is best to see things as they are rather than as they ought to be.

Best wishes.
 
surplus1 said:
EUT,

This type of story has been done before. So have several TV segments on lack of rest, etc.

Can you cite any of the above mentioned? I would be interested to see them.

EUT
 
Perception

The public will never shake their perception of the pilot as anything but brave, confident, rich, knowledgeable and devestatingly handsome.

Sounds like a Delta Pilot!:D

I sure wish I was one! Someday I guess?

Sicerely,
Wishfull Thinker

Of course ALPA will surely take care of that perception, wont they?:eek:
 
EUT said:
Can you cite any of the above mentioned? I would be interested to see them.

EUT

I believe that the Star Tribune (Minneapolis newspaper) did a story on it. Front page nonetheless. I want to say that it was sometime back in December 03 or January 04, but I'm not sure. You'd have to do some looking.

I don't remember the specifics of the article either. I'll do some digging and PM if I find anything.
 
Moonlighting from Mesaba

For those of you interested. Took some digging, and I can't post a link, but the bibliographic information is posted at the bottom.

------------------------------

On a brisk December morning, Mesaba Airlines pilot Ian Barrett got out of bed at 5 o'clock, hustled to the airport in Thunder Bay, Ontario, and flew a Saab turboprop and its passengers to the Twin Cities. After a brief stop at his Inver Grove Heights home, Barrett drove to the Mall of America.

There, Barrett waited on customers at the Napa Valley Grille. He left at about 4:30 p.m. and spent a few hours with his son. Then he donned his navy-blue pilot uniform and headed back to the airport to fly an evening trip to Thunder Bay.

Barrett, 27, doesn't know when he will step off of this two-job treadmill, where he earns $31,000 a year flying and $12,000 as a waiter. He and many other Mesaba pilots work second jobs, dashing the notion that all pilots live comfortably on six-figure salaries.

The issue might come to a head Friday night, as Mesaba pilots prepare to strike over salaries, job security and retirement benefits.

Eagan-based Mesaba, which provides regional service for Northwest Airlines, has been negotiating a contract with the pilots union since June 2001. After failing to settle their differences with the help of a federal mediator, the two parties are making a final attempt at reaching an agreement this week.

Time is running out. The strike deadline is 11:01 p.m. Friday.

About 65 percent of Mesaba's pilots earn $30,000 to $57,000 a year, according to the Mesaba unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).

"I only make $400 a week after taxes at Mesaba," Barrett said. "That's supposed to cover everything - living expenses, day care, food and a car payment. It doesn't. I have to work here [at the restaurant]. I have no choice."

Many Mesaba pilots interviewed say they love aviation, so they've chosen to stay with Mesaba and work second jobs to cover their living expenses. As the son of an Air Force pilot, Barrett was drawn to airplanes as a child. Flying was "something my dad held a lot of pride in," he said.

And there is the allure of flying itself. "I love seeing the aurora borealis, the sunsets and the sunrises" while piloting a plane, Barrett said. "It's not your typical office job."

Mesaba spokesman Dave Jackson declined to comment on the practice of pilots working second jobs.

"Pilot performance is excellent," Jackson said. "Our goal is to negotiate a fair agreement for the pilots that allows the company to survive and grow long-term."

Before the pilots opened contract talks in 2001, a union survey showed that about 17 percent of Mesaba pilots held second jobs, said Kris Pierson, a union spokesman.

Pierson, 28, is among the pilots who juggle two jobs. He works as a personal and business banker at U.S. Bank in St. Paul. Although he holds a four-year degree in airway science and has been a Saab first officer since May 2000, Pierson often can be found working the 2:30 p.m. to 1 a.m. shift at the bank. He serves customers who call the 24-hour bank help line.

He makes $13,500 a year at the bank working 80 hours a month. In 2003, he earned $34,000 as a full-time pilot.

Pierson, who is single, said earning a second income allows him to maintain a livable lifestyle and pay off his student loans. He started working at the bank before he got hired at Mesaba. With the bank job, "There is a lot of independence," he said. "You are basically one-on-one with your customer. It is a different environment completely from the airline."

Pierson estimates that the portion of Mesaba pilots now working second jobs has grown to 25 to 30 percent.

After the 2001 terrorist attacks caused massive layoffs in the airline industry, more Mesaba pilots pursued a second income because they wanted some financial security. More recently, the likelihood of a pilots strike prompted those with captains' seniority to find second jobs, Pierson said. (Mesaba employs 844 pilots.)

Matt Doehling, a farm boy from Winthrop, Minn., said uncertain contract negotiations led him to start Doehling Lawn and Landscape Service in April to supplement his income.

Doehling is a first officer or co-pilot on Saab turboprops, and his gross income averages about $30,000 a year. After mowing lawns and doing landscaping work last summer, Doehling now is plowing snow for businesses and homeowners.

"I've been able to just about match dollar for dollar during the summer what I was making with Mesaba," Doehling said. He and his wife, Jessica, live in Shakopee. She works in human resources for a health care company.

Doehling wants to improve his wages through a new contract agreement, but he advocates work rule changes so Mesaba pilots will spend fewer days away from their families each month.

Pierson said pilots are guaranteed 75 hours of pay per month. Their pay rate only applies to the hours that they are actually flying planes. Many pilots fly 85 or more hours per month. They are paid $1.35 an hour when they are away from their flight bases. Each month, some pilots spend 250 to 350 hours away from their flight bases, such as the Twin Cities, Pierson said.

That can be grueling on families, Doehling said. "I am considering getting out of the aviation business and just flying recreationally," he said. .

Lost dreams

Pilot Justin DeMenge still hopes to make aviation his life's work, but he concedes that his dream of flying for a major airline is "fading." Before the 2001 terrorist attacks, many pilots planned to fly for regional carriers, such as Mesaba, for a few years and then seek jobs at the large airlines.

DeMenge, 30, of Sauk Rapids, works a second job as a bus driver in the Sauk Rapids-Rice school district. The job is close to home, and "it also gives me more time to spend with my three kids," he said.

"My youngest son, Tyler, rides my afternoon route," said DeMenge, who flies as a first officer on Mesaba's Avro jets. "If we meet new people [Tyler] will always tell them first that I drive a bus."

Growing up in McGregor, Minn., DeMenge decided in high school that he wanted to become a pilot. "It's a natural rush for me to fly," he said. But before he got his turn in the cockpit, DeMenge worked behind the desk at Mesaba as a customer service agent.

DeMenge earned about $34,000 as a pilot in 2003 and about $10,000 as a bus driver. His wife, Carleen, is a special education teacher.

In anticipation of a strike, he said, "We've been trying to put away as much as we can" in savings. But he admits that they've saved very little money. His second income as a bus driver is essential to the family's budget and it's spent on everything from "groceries to lunch money for the kids."

When Barrett, the Napa Valley Grille waiter and Mesaba pilot, is not working, he spends time with his 3-year-old son, Alexander.

"I try and see him every single second that I can," said Barrett, who is recently divorced and shares custody of Alexander with his former wife.

Barrett tries to take Alexander to the Minnesota Zoo at least twice a week, and to squeeze in three trips to the gym to lift weights. "I need to do something for myself," he said. "I don't get a chance to go out to movies or anything like that."

Even though Barrett knows where every dollar of his paycheck goes, he does not express any fears about going on strike at Mesaba.

"Honestly, it's no big deal. The strike [benefit] that we'll be paid when we go on strike is $1,400 a month. It's $200 less than I make right now at Mesaba," Barrett said, adding that he'll pick up extra work as a waiter to fill in the income gap.

Barrett, who holds a bachelor's degree in aeronautical science, said he believes he is underpaid for his work as a pilot. "We're professionals. We work hard to make sure everything is done right and safe and we give good customer service," he said.

After his deductions, taxes and $50 retirement contribution are subtracted from his gross income, he gets a check for $811 for two weeks of work as a pilot. "Can you live off of $400 a week?" Barrett asked. "That's a question I'd love to ask the CEO."

Barrett and others are ready to strike to win a contract that mirrors agreements at other regional airlines. "I'll be walking a picket line," he said. "Between walking here [at the restaurant] and walking there, I'm going to be so skinny when it's all finished," he joked.

Barrett added, "I have many college buddies who work for Comair and Atlantic Coast and Air Wisconsin, and they don't have to work two jobs to survive."

.

Liz Fedor is at [email protected].

.

WHERE THINGS STAND

If they fail to reach a contract agreement by Friday night, Mesaba Airlines pilots are prepared to strike and shut down the regional carrier.

The pilots union estimates that 25 to 30 percent of Mesaba pilots work second jobs to pay their bills.

Pilots are paid $17,352 to $85,445 a year at Mesaba, according to union figures. Sixty-five percent of Mesabas pilots make about $30,000 to $57,000 a year.

----------------------------

Subjects: Airline industry, Contract negotiations, Pilots
Classification Codes 8350 Transportation & travel industry, 6300 Labor relations, 9190 United States
Locations: Eagan Minnesota
Companies: Mesaba Airlines (NAICS: 481111 )
Author(s): Liz Fedor, Staff Writer
Article types: News
Section: BUSINESS INSIDER
Publication title: Star Tribune. Minneapolis, Minn.: Jan 5, 2004. pg. 1.D
Source Type: Newspaper
ISSN/ISBN: 08952825
 
I think one of the toughest misperceptions to overcome is the idea of "paying your dues" that the public still holds.

I still hear it; the idea that, "...Sure they make dirt at first but it more than evens out in the end when they all will make well into the six figures..."

Until all the legacy guys are gone it will be tough to get the truth out and I'm sure management knows it and isn't worried.
 
Knee jerk..

This kind of story could also backfire on everyone, in that the media editor could decide to put a twist on the story to sell more papers and ask the public the question "are you really safe" this could cause alot of panic and cost us passengers. Its not real likely, however we have all seen how the press can take things out of context to suit there own needs.

I would suggest to run as fast as you can from this story, If your are identified "EVER" your name will be finished with all airlines.....you better be prepared to start another career..
 
The industry will need 20,000 new pilots

Geez, $60K in educational fees for a $17K job? How does a 20 year old kid get an educational loan for that amount? Heck, I didn't even have a credit card until I was 35! Have these kids really done there their homework with regards to opportunities after graduating from ERAU/COMAIR/GIA etc...? Who in there right mind would put themselves behind the eightball for such a crappy paying job. I mean, my first 135 job in air ambulance paid $36K to start! Even a Part 135 in 402s pays in the 30's. No degree required. Heck, my neighbor is an FA at American and he makes $65K!! No the problem is that these kids want it now and they are not looking at the industry with an objective eye. They fall prey to these "airline" schools. Simply put, the regional aviation industry is a BIG LIE followed by huge disappointment. Thank God for corporate aviation.
 
DYLIN said:
Yeah really. Mention things like pilots have more relaxed rest requirements than truck drivers. Describe the whole process of how the 8 hours of "rest" turns into 4-5 hours of sleep. There are so many things to cover in this report; at the very least you should do the silhouette/altered voice type of interview, if not interviewing with a bunch of other pilots.


Ditto on Dylin's thoughts. I think the public would freak if they got a look see at some of these schedules we fly. Especially when set next to the new trucking rest requirements. Shocking to say the least. Next add the pay issue.........
 
This article will only point out what W.C. Fields has already said..."there's sucker born every minute!"
 
At the very least it will (albeit modestly) help to destroy the myth that all pilots are paid gobbs of cash. It could result in fewer people going into the industry. Would this be all bad?

Who cares what "joe public" thinks....tell it the way it is!
 
<<<<<<<<<<<<< They fall prey to these "airline" schools. Simply put, the regional aviation industry is a BIG LIE followed by huge disappointment >>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah, and look how quickly they start bit-ch-ing about how they are underpaid and how all their peers at other regionals have already upgraded. How true to a sucker being born every minute.
 
This story would require a half-hour at the least. An hour special on national news would be much better, then all angles could be reported on in full.
If this is just for a local news, don't do it, 2-4 minutes just isn't enough time for a story of this magnitude.
 
typical pilots...

really think for ONE minute that the general public really cares how little you make??

all they would say is:

"what kind of educated adult would get out of bed for 17K/yr?"

"to see the susnset from my cockpit office"....thanks dude, keep it (and the 17K)

as said many times -- sucker born every minute.

and that about sums it up in my opinion!
 

Latest resources

Back
Top Bottom