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News Anchor does story on regional pay

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EUT

Active member
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
Posts
35
I had an interesting conversation last night with a guy who lives in my parents’ neighborhood. He is a news anchor with the largest market-share local TV station in the area. He asked me how I liked my job, and I said something like “Its great, I just wish it paid a little better.” (I am a first year-FO with one of the bigger regionals) He looked at me a little puzzled and said what they all say… “I thought pilots made good money” I told him my annual salary was about 17K / year, and he about fell over he was so stunned. Up to that point I thought we were just having a casual conversation, but then he says to me “ I can’t believe with the responsibility you carry that you are paid that poorly.” What do you say? I just shrugged. Then he says “ I want to do a news story on this. People would be stunned to know that starting pilots make so little.” I said Okay. Then I realized he was serious and that’s when I got nervous. I have been working for years to get this job with this company, and I don’t have to tell all of you how many guys would love to take my place. So the last thing I want to do is start making waves my first year on the job, and then have some “trouble” on my next PC. I also happen to work a non-union airline, which makes me all the more nervous about talking to the media in any way that would reflect badly on my company.

I would love to get the word out on how ridiculous regional pilot salaries are, but not at the expense of my own job… I’ve worked too hard to get here. So, I mentioned that to the news anchor, and he said “We could silhouette you, altar your voice, etc.. or you could find some other guys who would be willing to take that risk. So that is where you guys come in. If you are a regional pilot making less than $20k / year, and would be willing to talk to this guy please PM me with your name, phone number, company name, and Email, and I will forward the info to the anchor. Also, If you think of comparisons that might add edge to the story feel free to make a suggestion. For instance: I thought it might make a good photo op to have a pilot in full uniform standing line for food stamps (yes, I get food stamps) or a copy of my last paycheck for a whopping $632.56 or a piece about a pilot who has a wife, two kids and still lives in his parents’ basement because 17K barely pays subsidized rent, let alone a house payment. Etc.. I also wondered if they would be interested in doing a story on that safety hazards of airlines like Gulfstream, and Tab renting out the right seat to “wannabes” What do you think?
EUT
 
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I wish I was at the regional level so I could be involved in this report. I do very much like his response, though. Complete surprise, which is what the public would be in as well.
 
I think that I just shelled out 7th year Captain pay at my company for an auto mechanic to "look" at my car to tell me what was wrong with it.

He must be skilled labor, I wonder what college he went to... I would have asked, but he would have needed to put his teeth in his mouth and put his beer down to answer me...

Sincerely,

B. Franklin
 
What do I think? I think...

...it's sensationalistic to show a pilot in full uniform collecting food stamps.

The public is so cynical and skeptical right now of everything they see on TV that the ridiculous image of a pilot collecting food stamps will automatically trigger their "BS" flags.

A better story would have more flesh:

--Low wages and long duty days.

--Reduced rest/stand up over-nights.

--Training and education costs.

--Buy-outs/mergers, a la, TWA/American.

--Reckless management, a la, USAir/United/Eastern.

Call me cynical and skeptical but I think the reporter, though well intentioned, is pissing into the wind.

The public will never shake their perception of the pilot as anything but brave, confident, rich, knowledgeable and devestatingly handsome.:cool:
 
Yeah really. Mention things like pilots have more relaxed rest requirements than truck drivers. Describe the whole process of how the 8 hours of "rest" turns into 4-5 hours of sleep. There are so many things to cover in this report; at the very least you should do the silhouette/altered voice type of interview, if not interviewing with a bunch of other pilots.
 
I think that this is a great opportunity to get the word out. Make sure to tell them of all the struggles it takes just to get where you are. I have been instructing for two years now just got to 1000/200, and am becoming marketable at the regional level, but will be starting my new non-aviation job on tuesday. 65,000 in student loans, bills, and living exp. add up to more than my paycheck every two weeks, and my credit is going down the drain. And I was working 70+ hours a week, 7 days a week. The depressing thing is that a job at a regional would be a small pay cut. Not trying to whine, but I am just one of many that have to give up their dream, just to make sure that I don't have to go to bed hungry anymore at night.
 
“ I can’t believe with the responsibility you carry that you are paid that poorly.”
The media thing could backfire. After all, if a guy is dumb enough to stick 80,000 into an education and years worth of work, to net a 17,000.00 a year job...should we really be trusting him with our lives?
 
here we go again...

it's extremely sensitive to do a story on this matter..
not from the subject involved...but the responsibility that the reporter is about to shoulder.

is this man a news reporter...or a JOURNALIST. is his degree in mass media...or journalism? has he always wanted to be on TV or does he do this cause hes always wanted to be a journalist? ...that single word carrys alot of weight and more credibility than anyone else whose NOT a journalist. it signifies what he HAS to stand up for and do correctly...or he cant call himself one....well he could call himself a BAD one.

if he is able to remain 100% objectionable, 100% informative, and show BOTH sides of the story equally...then go with it.

if he is not, if he can only inform the people "how bad it is" and is gung-ho about making a point on "how serious this matter is" without showing WHY its this way fairly without attitude...then i would pass...and tell him why youre passing. because your going to represent the industry of the pilots and the airlines. and make sure that if you do, PLEASE present your information.....and not youre personal bone to pick about the industry pay (you knew the pay when you got hired). he could hurt both parts of the industry by using a "poor light". there is nothing more serious than the growing epidemic of backhanding the ethics of fair news reporting just to get attention. if you all would like to read about the proper way things NEED to be done, i'll give you the following code of ethics from the society of professional journalists (SPJ). any serious journalist worth his or her salt is a member.

http://www.spj.org/ethics_code.asp

all of these codes have been forgotten about. because the reporting of sensationally shocking news dosent seem credible at all...and once the left wing people are able to make us believe that this regular news is no good at what it does (thank you all of you Rush Limbaugh clones), then noone believes the news profession as worthy information, they panic and try to 'sell' you the news as entertainment.....ala FOX...and then youve lost your entire ability to get ANY good news....ever! dig out the short wave ant tune up the BBC.

now, for a scenario-like example of how the news struggles with the decisions on what to do and how to do it right.....heres more practical ethics for you in a link.

http://www.rtnda.org/ethics/priddy.shtml

i guess im asking this, is the guy going to do a good fair job and not "sell" the news? and will you also do the same? will your info be taken seriously and un-manipulated for efffect? alot can be said by the look of the report. the tone of the report. the attitude of the report.

wheres Bobbysamd? he used to do this stuff i think. any comment Bobby?
 
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Pilot salary news story

My initial reaction was that your news anchor friend should definitely not call Kit Darby for comment. :rolleyes: It was in 1987 when Kit, as FAPA, spawned the pilot shortage sophistry. News media ran stories of how 40-thousand pilots would be needed during the next ten years, etc., ad nauseum. Kit was always supplying the quotes. We all know how true that "story" was.

A story about pilot salaries could be interesting as long as your news anchor friend researches it well. He should go by objective data, such as from state departments of labor or the Bureau of Labor Statistics. As well as talking with pilots from all facets of aviation, he could interview ALPA officials, 135 operators, corporate, etc.

I second Airpilotrob's comments about the quality of journalism this story requires, and appreciate his citations to RTNDA and Sigma Delta Chi. The story has to be done right. Showing a pilot in uniform paying for groceries with food stamps would indeed be sensationalism. Finally, the story needs to evolve from a current angle, such as an upcoming contract or, heaven forbid, furloughs. There has to be a reason for doing the story. I also agree with Mar's comments about covering such things as crew rest, etc. in the story, not to mention pay commensurate with responsibility. The myth that pilots work only 80 hours a month and are paid big bucks needs to be debunked. Even if well done, don't expect a groundswell of support for higher pilot salaries. People will still feel that pilots are well paid, if not overpaid, and they (the people) are underpaid.
 
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EUT,

Be careful...this reporter will toss you aside like a used condom after he's done what he can for himself.

Ask yourself what good will come ( for YOU or the profession ) from putting yourself at risk, if that's what would be involved.

You'll find that the public could care less about YOU or your plight. There are many ways to view this whole thing, but be careful...for all the reasons you stated in your original post.
 
Fellas,

This is a great idea, and I applaud you bringing this to light... BUT... as well intentioned as this really is, what would be our objective? It is true that the public will be somewhat aghast at our low wages, but will this change a thing?
Sadly, I suspect nadda... Not one thing. What will we have accomplished?

Wanna hear something F'd up?

Last year I got involved in a custody dispute with the ex over my son... Well, it goes without saying I had a heck of a time finding an attorney, as they all wanted a $5000.00 retainer and charged $225 per hour.
Later, when we went to court and the judge was attempting to determine stability of lifstyle, and financial responsibility (a.k.a. child support), I got HAMMERED! My career didn't quite qualify as the most stable seeing as how I was gone half of the month, and I took it in the rocks on child support. Even though Texas awards a flat 20% for one child, the judge laughed and threatened to hold me in contempt for "lying about my wages in an effort to avoid paying the due support for my son"...
When I swore up and down that airline pilots DO make $17,000 per year at first, the judge then declared that I was intentionally "under-employing" myself in an effort to stiff my ex. I was then ordered to take on another job if that's what it took- even if that meant that I had to quit the airline gig. He even ordered an investigation into my background to ensure that I was being truthful about my earnings.
In the end it didn't matter because he awarded child support for my ex based on 20% of what his and the public's PERCEPTION of airline pilot pay was- and it was my first of the month two week net pay.
(In case you're wondering, I ended up prevailing just two weeks ago, and I have my son now.)
I commend you guys, and you have my total respect... But, it is what it is, boys. Just a real pisser...

Jason
 
EUT,

This type of story has been done before. So have several TV segments on lack of rest, etc. The impact on the "public" was zero and no changes resulted from any of these peices. The FAA ignored the "rest" problems as they have for decades. Sad but true.

Take your own advice. If you are "new" and with a non-union company, don't do this. It will gain you nothing, it will gain us nothing and it just might cost you your job.

The "public" cares about what they pay for a seat. They couldn't care less about what you're paid. The general public despises unions and union labor. If that was not so most workers would belong to unions. The fact is most do not.

Additionally, the concept of indentured service is as popular with employers (and the indentured, believe it or not) today as it ever was. Just look at the "success" of WalMart and you'll be able to understand that.

I don't like being so cynical but sometimes it is best to see things as they are rather than as they ought to be.

Best wishes.
 
surplus1 said:
EUT,

This type of story has been done before. So have several TV segments on lack of rest, etc.

Can you cite any of the above mentioned? I would be interested to see them.

EUT
 
Perception

The public will never shake their perception of the pilot as anything but brave, confident, rich, knowledgeable and devestatingly handsome.

Sounds like a Delta Pilot!:D

I sure wish I was one! Someday I guess?

Sicerely,
Wishfull Thinker

Of course ALPA will surely take care of that perception, wont they?:eek:
 
EUT said:
Can you cite any of the above mentioned? I would be interested to see them.

EUT

I believe that the Star Tribune (Minneapolis newspaper) did a story on it. Front page nonetheless. I want to say that it was sometime back in December 03 or January 04, but I'm not sure. You'd have to do some looking.

I don't remember the specifics of the article either. I'll do some digging and PM if I find anything.
 
Moonlighting from Mesaba

For those of you interested. Took some digging, and I can't post a link, but the bibliographic information is posted at the bottom.

------------------------------

On a brisk December morning, Mesaba Airlines pilot Ian Barrett got out of bed at 5 o'clock, hustled to the airport in Thunder Bay, Ontario, and flew a Saab turboprop and its passengers to the Twin Cities. After a brief stop at his Inver Grove Heights home, Barrett drove to the Mall of America.

There, Barrett waited on customers at the Napa Valley Grille. He left at about 4:30 p.m. and spent a few hours with his son. Then he donned his navy-blue pilot uniform and headed back to the airport to fly an evening trip to Thunder Bay.

Barrett, 27, doesn't know when he will step off of this two-job treadmill, where he earns $31,000 a year flying and $12,000 as a waiter. He and many other Mesaba pilots work second jobs, dashing the notion that all pilots live comfortably on six-figure salaries.

The issue might come to a head Friday night, as Mesaba pilots prepare to strike over salaries, job security and retirement benefits.

Eagan-based Mesaba, which provides regional service for Northwest Airlines, has been negotiating a contract with the pilots union since June 2001. After failing to settle their differences with the help of a federal mediator, the two parties are making a final attempt at reaching an agreement this week.

Time is running out. The strike deadline is 11:01 p.m. Friday.

About 65 percent of Mesaba's pilots earn $30,000 to $57,000 a year, according to the Mesaba unit of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).

"I only make $400 a week after taxes at Mesaba," Barrett said. "That's supposed to cover everything - living expenses, day care, food and a car payment. It doesn't. I have to work here [at the restaurant]. I have no choice."

Many Mesaba pilots interviewed say they love aviation, so they've chosen to stay with Mesaba and work second jobs to cover their living expenses. As the son of an Air Force pilot, Barrett was drawn to airplanes as a child. Flying was "something my dad held a lot of pride in," he said.

And there is the allure of flying itself. "I love seeing the aurora borealis, the sunsets and the sunrises" while piloting a plane, Barrett said. "It's not your typical office job."

Mesaba spokesman Dave Jackson declined to comment on the practice of pilots working second jobs.

"Pilot performance is excellent," Jackson said. "Our goal is to negotiate a fair agreement for the pilots that allows the company to survive and grow long-term."

Before the pilots opened contract talks in 2001, a union survey showed that about 17 percent of Mesaba pilots held second jobs, said Kris Pierson, a union spokesman.

Pierson, 28, is among the pilots who juggle two jobs. He works as a personal and business banker at U.S. Bank in St. Paul. Although he holds a four-year degree in airway science and has been a Saab first officer since May 2000, Pierson often can be found working the 2:30 p.m. to 1 a.m. shift at the bank. He serves customers who call the 24-hour bank help line.

He makes $13,500 a year at the bank working 80 hours a month. In 2003, he earned $34,000 as a full-time pilot.

Pierson, who is single, said earning a second income allows him to maintain a livable lifestyle and pay off his student loans. He started working at the bank before he got hired at Mesaba. With the bank job, "There is a lot of independence," he said. "You are basically one-on-one with your customer. It is a different environment completely from the airline."

Pierson estimates that the portion of Mesaba pilots now working second jobs has grown to 25 to 30 percent.

After the 2001 terrorist attacks caused massive layoffs in the airline industry, more Mesaba pilots pursued a second income because they wanted some financial security. More recently, the likelihood of a pilots strike prompted those with captains' seniority to find second jobs, Pierson said. (Mesaba employs 844 pilots.)

Matt Doehling, a farm boy from Winthrop, Minn., said uncertain contract negotiations led him to start Doehling Lawn and Landscape Service in April to supplement his income.

Doehling is a first officer or co-pilot on Saab turboprops, and his gross income averages about $30,000 a year. After mowing lawns and doing landscaping work last summer, Doehling now is plowing snow for businesses and homeowners.

"I've been able to just about match dollar for dollar during the summer what I was making with Mesaba," Doehling said. He and his wife, Jessica, live in Shakopee. She works in human resources for a health care company.

Doehling wants to improve his wages through a new contract agreement, but he advocates work rule changes so Mesaba pilots will spend fewer days away from their families each month.

Pierson said pilots are guaranteed 75 hours of pay per month. Their pay rate only applies to the hours that they are actually flying planes. Many pilots fly 85 or more hours per month. They are paid $1.35 an hour when they are away from their flight bases. Each month, some pilots spend 250 to 350 hours away from their flight bases, such as the Twin Cities, Pierson said.

That can be grueling on families, Doehling said. "I am considering getting out of the aviation business and just flying recreationally," he said. .

Lost dreams

Pilot Justin DeMenge still hopes to make aviation his life's work, but he concedes that his dream of flying for a major airline is "fading." Before the 2001 terrorist attacks, many pilots planned to fly for regional carriers, such as Mesaba, for a few years and then seek jobs at the large airlines.

DeMenge, 30, of Sauk Rapids, works a second job as a bus driver in the Sauk Rapids-Rice school district. The job is close to home, and "it also gives me more time to spend with my three kids," he said.

"My youngest son, Tyler, rides my afternoon route," said DeMenge, who flies as a first officer on Mesaba's Avro jets. "If we meet new people [Tyler] will always tell them first that I drive a bus."

Growing up in McGregor, Minn., DeMenge decided in high school that he wanted to become a pilot. "It's a natural rush for me to fly," he said. But before he got his turn in the cockpit, DeMenge worked behind the desk at Mesaba as a customer service agent.

DeMenge earned about $34,000 as a pilot in 2003 and about $10,000 as a bus driver. His wife, Carleen, is a special education teacher.

In anticipation of a strike, he said, "We've been trying to put away as much as we can" in savings. But he admits that they've saved very little money. His second income as a bus driver is essential to the family's budget and it's spent on everything from "groceries to lunch money for the kids."

When Barrett, the Napa Valley Grille waiter and Mesaba pilot, is not working, he spends time with his 3-year-old son, Alexander.

"I try and see him every single second that I can," said Barrett, who is recently divorced and shares custody of Alexander with his former wife.

Barrett tries to take Alexander to the Minnesota Zoo at least twice a week, and to squeeze in three trips to the gym to lift weights. "I need to do something for myself," he said. "I don't get a chance to go out to movies or anything like that."

Even though Barrett knows where every dollar of his paycheck goes, he does not express any fears about going on strike at Mesaba.

"Honestly, it's no big deal. The strike [benefit] that we'll be paid when we go on strike is $1,400 a month. It's $200 less than I make right now at Mesaba," Barrett said, adding that he'll pick up extra work as a waiter to fill in the income gap.

Barrett, who holds a bachelor's degree in aeronautical science, said he believes he is underpaid for his work as a pilot. "We're professionals. We work hard to make sure everything is done right and safe and we give good customer service," he said.

After his deductions, taxes and $50 retirement contribution are subtracted from his gross income, he gets a check for $811 for two weeks of work as a pilot. "Can you live off of $400 a week?" Barrett asked. "That's a question I'd love to ask the CEO."

Barrett and others are ready to strike to win a contract that mirrors agreements at other regional airlines. "I'll be walking a picket line," he said. "Between walking here [at the restaurant] and walking there, I'm going to be so skinny when it's all finished," he joked.

Barrett added, "I have many college buddies who work for Comair and Atlantic Coast and Air Wisconsin, and they don't have to work two jobs to survive."

.

Liz Fedor is at [email protected].

.

WHERE THINGS STAND

If they fail to reach a contract agreement by Friday night, Mesaba Airlines pilots are prepared to strike and shut down the regional carrier.

The pilots union estimates that 25 to 30 percent of Mesaba pilots work second jobs to pay their bills.

Pilots are paid $17,352 to $85,445 a year at Mesaba, according to union figures. Sixty-five percent of Mesabas pilots make about $30,000 to $57,000 a year.

----------------------------

Subjects: Airline industry, Contract negotiations, Pilots
Classification Codes 8350 Transportation & travel industry, 6300 Labor relations, 9190 United States
Locations: Eagan Minnesota
Companies: Mesaba Airlines (NAICS: 481111 )
Author(s): Liz Fedor, Staff Writer
Article types: News
Section: BUSINESS INSIDER
Publication title: Star Tribune. Minneapolis, Minn.: Jan 5, 2004. pg. 1.D
Source Type: Newspaper
ISSN/ISBN: 08952825
 

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