New Skywest RJ rates????

[PBRstreetgang]

DB, etal,
That is the same tripe that the company was pushing prior to the "TA" vote. Their "Doom and Gloom" sales push worked 53% of the pilots believed and voted accordingly. I wish pilots would stop "understanding" managments plight, and their inability to make only $13, 000,000 in 1stQ03. The 53% rolled belly up and caved, UAL, SKYW both won. It never stops to amaze me that pilots seem to "understand" managments plight and give them whatever they want.
Wake up and do your own research, the SKYW-UAL deal announcment should cause at least one eyebrow to raise.
PBR

 

[PBRstreetgang]

INTHEPOOL,
It's only getting worse, day by day, your plight will just continue when you get to SKYW or where ever you are in the pool for.
Reality, when I went through ground school at SKYW , I was paid from day 1.
When you go through you will be unpaid till your A/C checkride, could be 2 months or more. Hope your credit card is well below it's limits. If managment gets it's way, the no pay would be extended till the off probation interview, 1 year+.
The above probation thing is just speculation, I hope it will go the other way. The reason SKYW paid me during training was: no-one was showing up and they had trouble filling classes. Demand will determine price, if you are willing to work for nothing managment will pay nothing until the classes are empty. Extrapolate this to the 777, if you will fly it for free, why would they pay you to fly it?
You either have moral standards or you don't, one doesn't suddenly develop standards at some arbitrary point, ie, a job, CFI, freight, regional, major, flag carrier, where do you grow a pair?
Good luck
PBR

 

[Rogue5]

If managment gets it's way, the no pay would be extended till the off probation interview, 1 year+.

PBR, I'd advise you not to even joke around putting words like that in management's mouths... Its not true, its not even very funny, and even though you qualified it as "speculation" afterword, people have a tendancy on this board to run with lines like that as truth.

This is a great company and just as I don't believe in little green men or Santa Claus, I have a hard time believing in doom and gloom conspiracy theories about alleged neo-slave drivers in SGU trying to squeeze every penny out of us.

There is a lot of goodwill between management and pilots, and although management always has one eye towards the bottom line (that IS their job, as ours is to fly airplanes), the people at SKYW have impressed me by their understanding of when saving a few extra bucks actual does more damage to the intangibles that make a company work well.

Just my $.02 as I fly around looking at clouds...

 

[Rogue5]

By the way, the above being said, it should be noted: I voted NO.

 

[nimtz]

INTHEPOOL,
You either have moral standards or you don't, one doesn't suddenly develop standards at some arbitrary point, ie, a job, CFI, freight, regional, major, flag carrier, where do you grow a pair?
Good luck
PBR

PBR, you by far are the wisest Skywest pilot I have come across yet. All these morons that talk about 'it's a great company and mangement treats us right' need to try a little absolut in their koolaid...

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Thanks, it is a good company to work for, Southwest is great, Fedex is great, Skywest could be great with some tweaking, but that won't happen as long as those guys keep sippin tha SGU koolaid.
It is all about balance and right now there is not alot of that.
Trust but verify is a good rule, do your own home work is another. Soundbites and partial info will bite one in the a$$,
like... the latest "TA".
PBR

 

[surplus1]

I think if I hear "the Bain group" one more time I'll just puke.

Too bad no one had the cojones to tell them what to do with their "consulting fees". Instead you let them tell you what you should be paid.

If you had all said NO, what was the Bain group going to do? = Punt. And UAL was going to give all your flying to mesa and chautauqua; sure. That one we should add to Aesop's fables.

Good luck.

 

[avrodriver]

There you go!! You just solved your own problem.....why don't you just call up CHQ, ACA, ASA,Eagle and Skywest and tell them that you have decided that it isn't fair to take concessions (which I agree with you) and if you all say no.....you'll have them right where you want them, hell why not ask for a raise..........oh wait that's right.....that's you that have been bitching about CHQ since they started flying under Delta colors, and bitching about Skywest since even before they ever signed this latest TA. Sounds like it was pretty easy for you guys so why would it be easy for us. Ok so maybe it's to late to call Skywest and ACA.....very convienent now. Yeah fables.....where is Westair now, BAMN!! Replaced.....all the flying that Mesa used to do in DEN, BAMN!! Replaced....this isn't the first time United has pulled this crap. When I say "you" I don't mean you personally so don't even try it....it's just what I've seen on this board. I apologize for my pilot group....yes obviously enough were scared, duped, whatever......and yes this will do absolutely nothing good for all pilots as a whole, it's over.....everyone wants to blame someone else....the chain of people being able to point thier fingers at someone else who started it is endless. No one disagrees with you that this sucks. Have fun sitting in a position you are not even in (although I agree you probably will be soon no thanks to us) telling us we have "no balls" and we've doomed the rest of the industry........whatever makes you feel better. We aren't in any disagreement here....if you don't understand why what has happened took place it's because your not listening. The guys above who voted NO are even trying to tell you why they think it happened!! I am I supposed to feel ashamed now and walk around with my head held down. Sorry dude.....we have a great (but the majority lacks the balls to call the bluff) pilot group here, I enjoy coming to work when I get called, YES!!!! as a new hire here at Whiskey I'm very bitter about my fricken paycut concidering I just left another not so bright looking company after 3 years and the reason I came was for the contract. But what do you want??? Do you want everyone to hate us?? Do you want us to to say oops!! Maybe we made a mistake! I don't know what to tell you.........yes it sucks, but the situation was no where as easy as you seem to believe. Even as much as you frustrate me I truely hope that our disfunctional UAX family doesn't damage to much of what you've fought to obtain. AD

 

[surplus1]

There you go!! AD

I understand your frustration and hope you understand mine. You do not need to apologize for your pilot group and you do not need to hang your head or feel ashamed. That's not what this is all about. And yes, I know all about what UAL did to Air Wisconsin back when they bought it. I also know what happened to West Air. That was then, this is now.

The problems we are having are not caused by AWAC or SKYW or ACA or Mesa individually. They are caused, in my opinion, first by the way that we "regional pilots" think of ourselves and secondly by the way we (almost all of us) allow ourselves to be manipulated by the so-called labor union that we employ to represent our interests.

It does not represent our interests, has never represented our interests and will not represent our interests in the future beceause WE, as a group, refuse to recognize or identify our own interests, refuse to recognize that the "union" represents the interests of others, and will not collectively defend oureselves ad demand our just deserts. It is not your airline that is "to blame" my friend, it is ALL of us. We're too busy trying to please the Duane Woerths of the world and appeasing those who would gladly destroy us. What we ought to be doing is taking the time to recognize that individually we have very little power, but collectively we are just as strong as any single mega carrier. Until we do that, we will continue to be relegated to the mediocrity that currently exists; with little voice in our own affairs and no control of our own destiny.

Perhaps you don't know your leader at ARW personally, but I do. He's a good leader and a good man. He knows what I'm talking about and he also knows that he can't fight the political structure that has created our problems alone, anymore that we can at my airline. We are in the very same boat. Since WE, the regional carriers, have chosen to stand individually, instead of collectively, we have no power. Getting us to come together is a very difficult task because there is so much inexperience and too many meaningless dreams within our groups that achieving consensus is almost impossible. So he does what he has to do to survive, as do we all. Notice I said almost impossible. I think that "the difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer". However, I don't give up.

Your frustrations are justified and so are mine. We are simply focusing on different elements. You apparently see the cause of our dilemma in a very different light from how I see it. This is not about me being right and you being wrong or vice versa. It is not about your pilot group vs. my pilot group. It's about US being unable to stick together and row the boat in the same direction. Instead of helping each other and standing together, which would render folks like the Bain group irrelevant, most of the time we don't even coordinate with each other. We want to be little islands of independence, which only works to the detriment of all of us. Our only chance is unity amongst ourselves; the regionals.

In some ways we are "different" from each other, but the ways in which we are "like" each other are many more. Yet we emphasize the differences and ignore the similarities. The major carriers are different from each other in many ways as well, but in case you haven't noticed, they do not emphasize the differences and they do exploit every similarity. Their "coalition" is very effective and as long as WE are unwilling to form a coalition of our own, they will continue to run over us and squash us like bugs. If we could achieve unity among ourselves, we could stop them. Yes, it might result in a fight and it may not be a fight that we can win. However, we don't need to win. All we need to do is hold our own and not lose. That we can do and I think we should try.

Unlike you, I don't believe it is "over". I think it has just begun and in my book, surrender is not an option.

Here's hoping we can get on the same page.

 

[DDpaysoff]

HIZZOES

Do they teach you how to sellout at BYU? LOL! If you can't do it better, do it cheaper, right. What is it w/ you people out west? MESA and SKYW giving too much. I praise CHQ for standing up and saying, no, I do not want you to put that thing in me. I don't care how much lube you put on it. Have some F__ing pride.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Dr. Detroit

Don't mess w/ the doctor. Do you guys need a pimp? I only charge 88%! Bring all you have and borrow some, you are still going to lose! LOL

 

[avrodriver]

Excellent post Surplus......and with that I believe my activity on this link is done. Good Luck!!! AD

 

[daddysquared]

So tell me, are pilots really as miserable as their posts would indicate? If so, why don't you just quit? Is it really worth it? It seems to me, from what I read here, that being an airline pilot pretty much bites. And if the working conditions continue along the same path that they are on, why not just go do something else? Fact is you have to be a pretty bright individual with quite a bit going on upstairs to learn all you need to know to fly. Instead of crying about it, take your intelligence and apply it somewhere else.

 

[Rogue5]

It seems to me, from what I read here, that being an airline pilot pretty much bites.

Very acute observation, with the key words, "From what I read here."

I will be so bold as to suggest that those opinions expressed on this board tend to represent and very small and extremely vocal minority of opinions. Many posts you read here are of people extremely hot under the collar and needing to vent.

You're probably not gonna hear too much from the guy who likes walking out to the airport as the sun rises, meets his crew in the lounge and shares a few laughs with other pilots, jumps in his plane and finds himself completely surrounded in a world of professionals (ATC, rampers, fellow crew members). This same guy (or girl) digs the people, the job, and god help him, he still really likes the view... He thinks about friends making buckets of cash (in other industries), but wouldn't change it for anything.

I fly with new captains and I fly with 20 years with the company old dogs, but I have flown with very few who complain. It just seems that they are the ones who talk the most.

I do not mean to disrespect those with legitimate axes to grind, but I would recommend to all out there to be suspicious of sources.

I have flown for crappy companies in the past. It sucks: I hated it, and I couldn't wait to move on, but the only happiness I had at that time was the flying and the "misery loves company" gallows-humor of other pilots still stuck there with me. I think happiness (in life and flying) depends on making good decisions and being fairly lucky, probably in equal parts. That in mind, I wish the best for all those out there.

Sorry for the rambling post, but I do very much love my job...

 

[Mkay?]

Nice post Rogue5. I am still wiping away the tears!


MKAY!


Oh yeah, I love my job too!

 

[Jeepman]

It is amazing to see the amount of vulgarity here. Come on guys (and gals) I enjoy debating on this site but can we cut out the garbage?


For those at ASA and Comair that think we (SKYW) signed our TA to"steal" or get 70 seat RJ's you should relax. As I understand it after 03' we have no more growth on the Delta side, although you guys are getting more flying out of SLC. Heck, you guys are getting the better parking spots & the good overnights (OAK & SBA)! In my opinion this TA was about not losing UAL.

Personally, I voted no on the TA because of the whole 99 seats for same pay. Am I disappointed? Yeah. Does it do me any good to complain or hear everyone else in the crew lounge complain? No. It's done. I still enjoy my job & wouldn't trade it for any other regional. I am not going to contemplate what will happen in 18 months. I will deal with it when it happens.

 

[Morning Wood]

What a bunch of bs. Can any of you honestly say that when
you voted you were were thinking of your "Brothers" at
(fill in the regional of choice)? My guess would be no.

Besides the pilots, tell me what other employee group has
been allowed to vote on any of this stuff?

MW

 

[SkyWstman]

Morning Wood, No body is realy thinking about the brothers at the other airlines. McDonalds isn't trying to figure out how it can bless Burger King and Carl's Jr. Southwest isn't trying to figure out how they can bless United, and Skywest isn't trying to figure out how they can give bussiness away. Every bussiness is trying to save itself. That's what it comes down to. What's best for us isn't necessarily best for everyone else. Each airline makes it's own decisions about what is best for it.

 

[ArcticFlier]

It is amazing to see the amount of vulgarity here. Come on guys (and gals) I enjoy debating on this site but can we cut out the garbage?


For those at ASA and Comair that think we (SKYW) signed our TA to"steal" or get 70 seat RJ's you should relax. As I understand it after 03' we have no more growth on the Delta side, although you guys are getting more flying out of SLC. Heck, you guys are getting the better parking spots & the good overnights (OAK & SBA)! In my opinion this TA was about not losing UAL.

Personally, I voted no on the TA because of the whole 99 seats for same pay. Am I disappointed? Yeah. Does it do me any good to complain or hear everyone else in the crew lounge complain? No. It's done. I still enjoy my job & wouldn't trade it for any other regional. I am not going to contemplate what will happen in 18 months. I will deal with it when it happens.

OAK????? I agree with SBA................... OAK----- Beirut by the Bay.

AF

 

[realitycheck]

Pareto

Pareto effect- why are people surprised when "crummy" TAs pass with 70%? It's the 80-20 rule; 80% of the posters speak for 20% of the population.

And if a TA passes well (ACA, SkyWest), maybe you nay-sayers should leave room for the possibility that other people from time-to-time are smarter than you.