avrodriver said:
But please do not think now you can look down on every other pilot group that is being faced with the new staus quo at the regional level (Delta by the way is not at the regional level and is not facing the same issues although I love that they aren't letting them get away with this furlough nonsense, as well as pay cuts). Whiskey, Skywest, ACA, Mesaba, CHQ, PDT, ALG, Mesaba, Mesa.....you name it...they are all dealing with something that you aren't, concession demands because of other carriers.
My friend I'm not looking down at all and can't even imagine how you came to that conclusion. What I am doing is running scared because I know what's coming as a result of what AWAC and SKYW have done and what I think ACA will also do.
If you believe that we will not be dealing with "concession demands" as a result of this, I think you're very wrong. The demand is coming and coming soon.
The fact is we have been undercut by a very wide margin and there will be consequences. When those consequences materialize it is highly probable that we will be forced to follow you into the downward spiral. You seem to think we are somehow exempt from all this. The fact is we are not.
PDT and ALG both had good contracts. They were in bankruptcy along with the rest of USAirGroup. That is a circumstance beyond their control and I don't hold them responsible for the wage concessions they had to make. As for Mesa, they have always been way below everyone and, in my opinion, the fact that they remain there is as irrlevalnt now as it was before.
SKYW, AWAC and ACA are not in bankruptcy or anywhere close to it. I simply do not believe that any of those carriers had to make concessions "to keep the UAL contracts". I see that as a management scam that they unfortunately swallowed to their own detriment and that of everyyone else. All three of those airlines are very profitable and, again in my opinion, did not need any concessions from pilots to remain so. Why then were these concessions made? Fear and fear alone. You've been duped and suckered in.
The result is that everyone else, including Comair which is not exempt, will suffer. Mesaba, Chautauqua, ASA, COEX and Skyway netotiations have all been trashed as a result of these unnecessary concessions at AWAC, SKYW and ACA. Whatever power we had to resist unnecessary concessions has been thrown away by folks that are supposed to be our friends and the union that is supposed to protect our interests. It's absolutely incredible.
I don't have a holier than thou attitude my friend, I just think that three of the best regional contracts/agreements have literally been given away with no justifiable reason. That will result in the two survinving agreements (CMR and HZN) having their compensation trashed as well. It's inevitable now.
For this absurd response to "industry problems" that NONE of your three airlines have, the remainder of the regional pilot groups will all suffer. Face it, the only "industry problem" that the regionals have is rapid growth. The real problems are at the majors, not the regionals. Trashing regional contracts isn't going to change mainline problems and it is not going to get you contracts that you would get anyway. Just look at Skywest. Do you really believe they got a deal with UAL within six hours of making concessions, because of the concessions?
Whiskey pilots fought pretty dam.n hard to get what we have now ( our TA is not in effect yet and will not be until United awards us flying), just like you did......the only difference is our mgmt wanted sh.it back and for some reason people over here felt like giving it to them.
I agree that you fought hard for what you had. So did we. That's why I don't understand how you could give it away so easily or for so long (and the so-called 18 month deal at Skywest is a dream that only they have). It just makes no sense to me. Whatever you are going to "get from United" you would have gotten with or without the concessions. Just like Skywest did.
SKYW got the UAL MOU, without the concessions, not because of them. It will take a lot longer than 18 months to get back to where we were.
I don't believe your mgmt has yet and I really hope it stays that way ( I know, I know......if they do you will tell them to f.uck off..yeah how many times have we heard that before and look what still happens).
No, they haven't asked yet, but there is no doubt that they will and this time we will not be able to tell them to blow it. Why? Because of what you all have done. Not because our company needs it and not because your companies needed it, but because you all chose to give away what you had, ironically in exchange for nothing.
Be happy with your own company, be happy you aren't going backwards, what's done is done......scolding people and telling them they did wrong doesn't change a da.mn thing. Nobody is trying to get you. Unfortunately everyone is out for self ( a little bad habit we've picked up from our managements) Good luck to all.....espeacially those facing concessions as well as those just trying to get a freak'in new contract (XJ, CoEx, ASA, Skyway). AD
I was happy with my own company, but I will have to go backwards now .... by a very long way, thanks to the three of you. That I'm not happy with. I know that scolding you will change nothing. If I could be convinced that everyone was just "out for self" I would not like it, but at least I would understand it. This is not out for self, it is screwing yourself .... and as a result, everyone else, those that have a good contract and those that were trying to get one. I'm sorry, but that sucks.
I'm not looking down on you, I'm just telling you that I think you have hurt yourselves and I know you have hurt everyone else. Saying it won't make it better, but I have to vent too.