New Rest Rules tomorrow, 12/21/11

[waveflyer]

Somewhat based on science-
The document continually uses "flight time" synonymously with "work". Flight time doesn't make me tired- duty time and time working does-
From what I've seen- this is much improved over the current scam rest rules.

Anyone applied the 65 in 168 to our schedules to see how it would affect them?

I personally hate 30/7- I'm always illegal by :20 for the trip that would make my life so much better- wonder why cartel's exist?
:-/

 

[Lear70]

That's because the pairings on the 737 are absolutely horrible. Hopefully SWA will fix them and make them far more efficient.

Speak for yourself. I like the MCO 737 pairings. 18 and 19 hour credit 3 days. 4 of those with 75 hrs block / 78 hrs credit and I'm done for the month.

The new rest/duty rules are based on science, not preferred layover considerations. As it should be.

Just saying there's always the law of unintended consequences. You pull from one reg and add to another and who knows what Crew Planning will do with it. Just hoping there will be enough variety for everyone and not create high value uncommutable day trips in a 60-70% commuter environment industry-wide or make high value workaholic trips and little else.

Time will tell. If it happens that way, at least I know the regional guys got thrown a bone...

 

[PCL_128]

wave, the focus of the new rules is the Flight Duty Period (FDP), not flight time. Flight time is taken into account somewhat, because the science indicates that it does matter to some limited degree, but duty time and number of segments (legs) is the focus, because that's what the science indicates is the biggest problem with fatigue.

 

[PCL_128]

Speak for yourself. I like the MCO 737 pairings.

I forgot that you're MCO based now. Yeah, those pairings are much better. The 737 guys in ATL get hosed, though. Horribly unproductive trips.

 

[waveflyer]

Ah Lear- the commuter lobby-

Well Im a local guy, who would like to be home every day possible and do nothing but turns- a dog will do that

It gets me that commuters lobby for 4 day trips-->then a disproportionate amount of 4 day trips end up in open time, which very few are legal for, which leads to more 4 day reserve blocks- then turns are bid for by commuters, just bc they're easier to get rid of and make your schedule more flexible.

I say if you lobby for 4 days- you should be the ********************ers who have to fly them
;-)
(but then again, I feel the same way about 3 days!. )

 

[PCL_128]

See, wave, we can agree occasionally.

 

[Lear70]

See, wave, we can agree occasionally.

Oh Jesus, the apocalypse is near...

I like 4 days, but MCO doesn't have them.

 

[Crzipilot]

Just as an off shoot, and a WTF moment reading those 330+ pages. On the subject of reduced rest below the 10 hours. ATA wanted reduced rest provisions, ALPA AGREED with them. Really?!?!? Anyways, FAA said, nope, we are dealing with fixing rest. Fix your schedules so you don't have to reduce rest.....

Really ALPA?

 

[scoreboardII]

The snowball rolling down the hill is irregular operations. Say you divert, hit the 8 hour point, however now we can fly to 9. But the scheduled flight is 61 minutes from divert to overnight, now you're done when before you could have kept going till you cried uncle.

Or better, lets say you hit the 8 hr point after you diverted, the flight from divert to overnight airfield is 30 minutes with a 31 minute divert flight because it's still at minimums. I consider I will need to account for all possible flight time, including another divert. And yes, I have diverted twice in one day.

 

[labbats]

Just as an off shoot, and a WTF moment reading those 330+ pages. On the subject of reduced rest below the 10 hours. ATA wanted reduced rest provisions, ALPA AGREED with them. Really?!?!? Anyways, FAA said, nope, we are dealing with fixing rest. Fix your schedules so you don't have to reduce rest.....

Really ALPA?

Is this for real? If so that says a lot.

 

[waveflyer]

Here it is: check it out

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/2120-AJ58-FinalRule.pdf

 

[waveflyer]

Just as an off shoot, and a WTF moment reading those 330+ pages. On the subject of reduced rest below the 10 hours. ATA wanted reduced rest provisions, ALPA AGREED with them. Really?!?!? Anyways, FAA said, nope, we are dealing with fixing rest. Fix your schedules so you don't have to reduce rest.....

Really ALPA?

To help out- crzi- can you tell us where you saw that?

 

[Metro752]

Four day trips suck.

 

[densoo]

Rest to begin behind closed door didn't seem to make it in.

They did better. 10 hours free from duty. At my airline duty ends 15 minutes after block in and starts 30 prior to block out. 10:45 block to block is better than a lot of pairings currently provide.

Then there's 8 hours of uninterrupted rest. I'm not resting when I'm showering and getting ready for the day. I would interpret this as 8 hours from door closed to alarm goes off. For me, 8:45 behind the door.

 

[Lear70]

They did better. 10 hours free from duty. At my airline duty ends 15 minutes after block in and starts 30 prior to block out. 10:45 block to block is better than a lot of pairings currently provide.

You must have some really crappy pairings, I haven't done less than a 10 hour overnight in months, and maybe only one or two in the last year.

Then there's 8 hours of uninterrupted rest. I'm not resting when I'm showering and getting ready for the day. I would interpret this as 8 hours from door closed to alarm goes off. For me, 8:45 behind the door.

Not sure how you got that out of the reg.

It's 8 hours behind the door. If it's going to be less than that because of delays getting to the hotel or checking in, you can adjust it accordingly, but it's not 8 hours plus time to get ready and get downstairs... nice try though.