New Medical/Alcohol Rule - FYI

[deemee boosgkee]

Found this on the AOPA forum and it caught my attention!


Old rule:

==============================
Mental standards for a second-class airman medical certificate are:
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(2) A verified positive drug test result acquired under an anti-drug program or internal program of the U.S. Department of Transportation or any other Administration within the U.S. Department of Transportation;
==============================

New Rule:

==============================
Mental standards for a second-class airman medical certificate are:
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation;
==============================

There are other parts to the amendments, including rules about reporting drug and alcohol tests and reporting requirements for employers.






So if I am I interpreting this correctly, then if I have 2 beers with my buddies, get in my car to drive home, get stopped for an inop brake light and blow a 0.05% BAC, that the FAA can suspend or revoke my medical even though I was below the DUI threshold of 0.08% and have not even broken any laws (other than inop brake light?) Seems very strange.

 

[Metro752]

YOU LEFT a lot out of the book, and so us lazy pedople wont look it up

i can guarantee an answer for you from midlifeflyer, no charge
he da man

 

[deemee boosgkee]

Yes I did cut & paste it from AOPA forum. Here is the full link

 

[Metro752]

Here is 61.14 through 61.16
Quick link to the Online FARs as of June 20
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=28ebdf27bcad8432f13d996e3d74dce0&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.9

actual text, better if you use the above link tho, nicer format.


§ 61.14 Refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test.

(a) This section applies to an employee who performs a function listed in appendix I to part 121 or appendix J to part 121 of this chapter directly or by contract for a part 121 air carrier, a part 135 air carrier, or for a person conducting operations as specified in §135.1(a)(5) of this chapter.
(b) Refusal by the holder of a certificate issued under this part to take a drug test required under the provisions of appendix I to part 121 or an alcohol test required under the provisions of appendix J to part 121 is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of such refusal; and
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
§ 61.15 Offenses involving alcohol or drugs.

(a) A conviction for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the growing, processing, manufacture, sale, disposition, possession, transportation, or importation of narcotic drugs, marijuana, or depressant or stimulant drugs or substances is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of final conviction; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
(b) Committing an act prohibited by §91.17(a) or §91.19(a) of this chapter is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for a certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that act; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
(c) For the purposes of paragraphs (d), (e), and (f) of this section, a motor vehicle action means:
(1) A conviction after November 29, 1990, for the violation of any Federal or State statute relating to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug;
(2) The cancellation, suspension, or revocation of a license to operate a motor vehicle after November 29, 1990, for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug; or
(3) The denial after November 29, 1990, of an application for a license to operate a motor vehicle for a cause related to the operation of a motor vehicle while intoxicated by alcohol or a drug, while impaired by alcohol or a drug, or while under the influence of alcohol or a drug.
(d) Except for a motor vehicle action that results from the same incident or arises out of the same factual circumstances, a motor vehicle action occurring within 3 years of a previous motor vehicle action is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the last motor vehicle action; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
(e) Each person holding a certificate issued under this part shall provide a written report of each motor vehicle action to the FAA, Civil Aviation Security Division (AMC–700), P.O. Box 25810, Oklahoma City, OK 73125, not later than 60 days after the motor vehicle action. The report must include:
(1) The person's name, address, date of birth, and airman certificate number;
(2) The type of violation that resulted in the conviction or the administrative action;
(3) The date of the conviction or administrative action;
(4) The State that holds the record of conviction or administrative action; and
(5) A statement of whether the motor vehicle action resulted from the same incident or arose out of the same factual circumstances related to a previously reported motor vehicle action.
(f) Failure to comply with paragraph (e) of this section is grounds for:
(1) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of the motor vehicle action; or
(2) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.
§ 61.16 Refusal to submit to an alcohol test or to furnish test results.

A refusal to submit to a test to indicate the percentage by weight of alcohol in the blood, when requested by a law enforcement officer in accordance with §91.17(c) of this chapter, or a refusal to furnish or authorize the release of the test results requested by the Administrator in accordance with §91.17(c) or (d) of this chapter, is grounds for:
(a) Denial of an application for any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part for a period of up to 1 year after the date of that refusal; or
(b) Suspension or revocation of any certificate, rating, or authorization issued under this part.

 

[TXGold]

All the more reason never to blow or do any stupid human tricks in front of a camera. Does anyone know how much the drunk driving accidents have gone down since these new laws became so important in the 80s?

 

[TXGold]

All the more reason never to blow or do any stupid human tricks in front of a camera. Does anyone know how much the drunk driving accidents have gone down since these new laws became so important in the 80s?

 

[FN FAL]

All the more reason never to blow or do any stupid human tricks in front of a camera. Does anyone know how much the drunk driving accidents have gone down since these new laws became so important in the 80s?

The 80's? Try the last few years. The feds jammed .08 down our state's throats about 4 years ago. The governor held out to the last minute, but they were holding federal highway funds as a carrot.

They just had an article in the paper, DUI accidents have risen...not dropped in the MKE area. In addition, unless you were one of a few rare people, the .08 dui's just aren't making the statistics in our state. Maybe the governor said, "Yea, it's gotta be a law, but we don't have to be Nazi's about it." Statistically, the arrested drinking driver in WI is a .125 or so.

 

[midlifeflyer]

YOU LEFT a lot out of the book, and so us lazy pedople wont look it up

i can guarantee an answer for you from midlifeflyer, no charge
he da man

It was my post at AOPA. There is one here too.

You can watch me argue with myself about it right here in the FAR' section as I go from near certainty in one direction to near certainty in the opposite.

So if I am I interpreting this correctly, then if I have 2 beers with my buddies, get in my car to drive home, get stopped for an inop brake light and blow a 0.05% BAC, that the FAA can suspend or revoke my medical even though I was below the DUI threshold of 0.08% and have not even broken any laws (other than inop brake light?) Seems very strange.

Iinterpreted it that way at first, but fortunately, it looks like we were wrong.

 

[Murdoughnut]

The 80's? Try the last few years. The feds jammed .08 down our state's throats about 4 years ago. The governor held out to the last minute, but they were holding federal highway funds as a carrot.

They just had an article in the paper, DUI accidents have risen...not dropped in the MKE area. In addition, unless you were one of a few rare people, the .08 dui's just aren't making the statistics in our state. Maybe the governor said, "Yea, it's gotta be a law, but we don't have to be Nazi's about it." Statistically, the arrested drinking driver in WI is a .125 or so.

Guy that hit me was .236 - not sure if DWI is going down, only know that a significant portion of my late Jeep Wrangler sits on the bottom of the Scioto River in Columbus, Ohio. I have the same anger for drunk drivers that a lot of you guys have for illegal immigrants - line 'em up and mow 'em down!

 

[Way2Broke]

I honestly believe that the only people that have never been behind the wheel with .08 or greater are those that do not drink at all. For most people .08 is three beers. I by no means condone drinking and driving, but I believe the current laws have gotten a bit out of control, mostly do to MADD. But then again, if I lost a son or daughter to a drunk driver I would be pissed off too. I read a statistic that stated that more that 1% of all airline pilots have a DUI. I don't know how many people that would be, but I am guessing it would be alot. There are even airline pilot's out there with 2, 3, or 4 DUIs. I'd say that the pilots falling into that category have gotten help, and possibly envolved with the FAA HIMMS program. I'm sure the FAA wants something from them to just get a medical.

When does this new rule go into place? It should be interesting to watch the first FAA ruling on this matter.

 

[Way2Broke]

Here is 61.14 through 61.16
Quick link to the Online FARs as of June 20
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=28ebdf27bcad8432f13d996e3d74dce0&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.9

What he is referring to has nothing to do with the part 61 regs. It pertains to the Medical Certification of pilots, which is FAR par 67.

 

[Gorilla]

For most people .08 is three beers.

You sure about this? it might be if you are 4' 2" and weigh 60 pounds. For the typical adult male, it's going to take more than three normal beers to blow .08.

You may be completely correct, but I'm too lazy to do the research. If you have a source, I'd like to se it.

As for the .04, I'm guessing it's in conjunction with flying, not driving.

 

[FN FAL]

Guy that hit me was .236 - not sure if DWI is going down, only know that a significant portion of my late Jeep Wrangler sits on the bottom of the Scioto River in Columbus, Ohio. I have the same anger for drunk drivers that a lot of you guys have for illegal immigrants - line 'em up and mow 'em down!

I bet that knocked the cell phone out of your hand.

Back in '78 an "alleged" drunk driver hit me and took off while I was driving a real car. I followed him until he crashed into a concrete pipe laid on end in a road construction zone. Gawd was that hilarious watching him slide sideways with orange and white barricade delios flipping over the top of his car before he hit the pipe so hard it folded his four door into a U shape. Cop wouldn't give him him the DWI tickets, no matter how much the rescue squad guys doth protest. Good thing I was only following him to get his license number and not chasing him though, they would have thunk I invented road rage or something.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I bet that knocked the cell phone out of your hand.

Back in '78 an "alleged" drunk driver hit me and took off while I was driving a real car. I followed him until he crashed into a concrete pipe laid on end in a road construction zone. Gawd was that hilarious watching him slide sideways with orange and white barricade delios flipping over the top of his car before he hit the pipe so hard it folded his four door into a U shape. Cop wouldn't give him him the DWI tickets, no matter how much the rescue squad guys doth protest. Good thing I was only following him to get his license number and not chasing him though, they would have thunk I invented road rage or something.

I don't own a cell phone, let alone drive with one. The guy that hit me hit me head on on a two lane highway. His car flipped over and was resting against some trees. He ran from the scene but the helicopter and k-9 found him a little while later. This guy had a previous hit/skip on his record. Of course I read all of this from the police report, I was on my way to the hospital. Like I said, the guy was .236. I'm only sorry he wasn't killed in the accident.

 

[Snakum]

I never drink and drive.

I get my drinking done early ... then go driving.

:beer:

:nuts:

 

[Way2Broke]

You sure about this? it might be if you are 4' 2" and weigh 60 pounds. For the typical adult male, it's going to take more than three normal beers to blow .08.

You may be completely correct, but I'm too lazy to do the research. If you have a source, I'd like to se it.

As for the .04, I'm guessing it's in conjunction with flying, not driving.

Here is a chart, 4 beers and even a 200 pound man is over the limit. And this is with a perfectly healthy liver too.

http://www.brad21.org/bac_charts.html

Here is a what a "drink" is. 1 "drink" is alot less that the typical serving at most bars. Especially if you know the bartended.

http://www.brad21.org/what_is_a_drink.html

I hope everyone learns from this, without having to learn the hard way. The days of a cop just following you home or having you call a friend are over. DUIs are big money makers for most states.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Please correct me if you think I am wrong here!

Correct me I am wrong here but it seems to me that there is little to be concerned about here. What this seems to say to me is that if the DOT does a test, such as a random test as might be preformed on a 121/135 crew member before or after a flight, then that where this rule applies. Only then does the .04 apply and not if that is blown during a motor vehicle traffic stop.

New Rule:

==============================
Mental standards for a second-class airman medical certificate are:
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation;

 

[Metro752]

I would correct you if you were wrong but you do not seem to be wrong, and that is excellent!

 

[ultrarunner]

So if I am I interpreting this correctly, then if I have 2 beers with my buddies, get in my car to drive home, get stopped for an inop brake light and blow a 0.05% BAC, that the FAA can suspend or revoke my medical

No, .04 is not an alcohol driving offense. It's the aviation threshold.

 

[SiuDude]

Praise the administrator!

Correct me I am wrong here but it seems to me that there is little to be concerned about here. What this seems to say to me is that if the DOT does a test, such as a random test as might be preformed on a 121/135 crew member before or after a flight, then that where this rule applies. Only then does the .04 apply and not if that is blown during a motor vehicle traffic stop.

New Rule:

==============================
Mental standards for a second-class airman medical certificate are:
(b) No substance abuse within the preceding 2 years defined as:

(2) A verified positive drug test result, an alcohol test result of 0.04 or greater alcohol concentration, or a refusal to submit to a drug or alcohol test required by the U.S. Department of Transportation or an agency of the U.S. Department of Transportation;