New Flight Time and Duty Day Regulations

[ImbracableCrunk]

What is the practical difference between a CDO and a redeye?

About 8 hours of duty.

 

[crj567]

About 8 hours of duty.

Really-You can be on duty for a CDO for 14 hrs (at our company.) Are you saying a red-eye will allow 22hrs?

 

[livin'thesim]

Remove the maximum 8 hours of flying and replace it with maximum 12 hour duty day and maximum landings of 5. Change the minimum rest to 10 hours and disallow travel local in nature to count for it. Use the average drive time to the hotel for additional duty day.

Amen.

I would like to see reduced rest only being allowed as an after the fact thing, rather than having it scheduled in.

So:

Min SCHEDULED rest 10 hours, reducible to 9 after the duty day starts.

The five landings is a good idea, I'd be okay with six.

Disallowing travel time is a good idea, otherwise make the 10 hours non-reducible.

So maybe the grid could look like this:

Less than 8hrs in 24 hrs
Normal rest 10hrs
Reducible to 9hrs
Comp rest 11hrs

8 hrs or more but less than 9hrs in 24hr
Normal rest 11hrs
Reducible to 10hrs
Comp rest 12hrs

9 or more hrs in 24hrs
Normal rest 12hrs
Reducible to 10hrs
Comp rest 14hrs

If reduced rest could only occur as a result of delays, rather than being scheduled in, then maybe the occasional reduction would have minimal detriment.

Just an on the fly idea, discuss.

 

[XJohXJ]

10 hours rest, non-adjustable for anything whatsoever, IN THE HOTEL. Any BS with the van goes 100% on company time. The crew calls Dx-"we're at the hotel, start the clock," the crew doesn't exit the lobby to the van until at or AFTER the 10 hours are up (to deal with cheap azz hotels that have weird van schedules).

It is important to allow no adjustments whatsoever to the 10 hour minimum. Airlines will learn how to not screw themselves by cutting things too close. Why should the crew always bear the burden, at the cost of safety, of poor airline schedule building?

Nine hours of "rest" is simply not enough to allow for 7-8 hours of sleep. It just doesn't add up. The scientific fact is that people need 7-8 hours of actual sleep to achieve rest.

 

[Mike man]

What is the practical difference between a CDO and a redeye?

You are allowed to sleep.

I say the rules should be simple, fly from 9am to 9pm, two 6 hours shifts a morning and an evening crew...no more of this 0400 report to fly, honestly who wants to fly at 5am???

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Really-You can be on duty for a CDO for 14 hrs (at our company.) Are you saying a red-eye will allow 22hrs?

Remember, the minus sign looks like a plus sign without the uppy-downy part.

 

[legalalien]

You want to see how complicated it can get - try looking at the rules in Europe.

In the UK the CAA calls it CAP 371 - www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/cap371.pdf

They did some major studies on sleep patterns over many years and came up with this. Don't be surprised if we end up going that way over time.

 

[Lear70]

Sorry Lear, but no CDO's, period. They simply aren't safe. If you insist on keeping them, then you need to reserve absolute right of refusal for those who can't do them but are junior assigned.

I honestly think they aren't safe no matter how much someone likes them. However, it is just plain wrong to give the leftovers to junior guys who can't stand them.

I agree with the junior-assignment issue, but in all fairness...

What about FedEx and UPS?

They often duty on at 7 or 8 p.m., fly one or two legs into the hub, sit for 3 or 4 hours, then fly a leg or two back to out-stations, all within 12-14 hours of duty.

What's the difference between one, continuous, all-night duty period and a CDO?

Just playing Devil's advocate with you. I *HATE* CDO's (I had an email address for a while that was [email protected]), and I like the idea of refusal with zero penalties written into the reg, but you can't eliminate stand-ups with reasonable limitations without also bringing into play all other back-of-the-clock flying like red-eyes, etc.

 

[wms]

According to the USA Today editorial yesterday, it sounds like Babbit is more concerned about commuting. Significant restrictions on commuting could cause irreparable harm to the quality of life of the average commuter. Imagine if the FAA required 12 hours rest in domicile before reporting for a trip.

I don't see how they can effectively address commuting and how they could track it. How do they track someone who decides to drive the three hours to work, or the person who commutes once a year from the family vacation? And how do you address commuting in the midst of a domicile change or base closure?

I get no less rest commuting than if there is a family/college reunion, wedding, prom or convention at the hotel the company puts us up at and the guests decide to stay up all night in the room down the hall.

 

[Erlanger]

The FAA, led by former ALPA MEC Chairman Randy Babbitt, is looking to rewrite the flight time and duty day regulations for FAR 121 carriers.

My questions to this forum is, if you had the authority to write the regulation and implement new flight time and duty day rules, what would they look like.

For me, I would suggest no more than a 12 hour duty day (domestic), 14 hour (international), and current Ultra Long Haul rules, but keep the 8 hour flight time restriction for two pilot aircrews. Comments?

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ 42272

There must be no reduced rest. A minimum of 12 hours of rest should be mandatory with no exceptions. 12 hour duty days max too with no exception and 8 hours of flying max daily. And do away with the 100 hr a month/1000 a year nonsense. 30 hour weeks are fine times 52 weeks if one desires to work. Pilot unions could negotiate with their companies that no one will be scheduled for more then 100 hours a month but if the pilot wants to work more then they can work more but it will be the pilots choice.