New FARs concerning Fractionals? 91K rules

[General Lee]

What's with the new rest rules or breif requirements for fractionals? My friend at Netjets was very happy with the new rules, which sort of mirror airline rest requirements. Supposedly they can't just call you any more at 2am and give you a new brief for the next day, and if they do they need to start the rest over again for 10 hours. My friend said this will result in many more new hires, but Netjets can't find too many at $27,000 first year pay. Supposedly the new rules created havoc at Netjets last weekend, and they had to get 200 on demand charters to deal with the mess. Maybe that will turn the tide on negotiations....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Grizz]

The new 91(k) regulations require 135 type rules for rest and duty. For us, the days of endless standby and not really knowing when to rest are over. Your friends is correct on two points - we need a ton more pilots and NetJets is having a hell of a time attracting them due to the pay and lack of upgrade potential. After reading this week's message from our negotiating committee, it appears the company has painted itself into a corner and is scrambling to get the contract done for some relief. Oh darn...they got too cute last year with the negotiations and it's going to bite them in the ass.

 

[pilotyip]

How can it be done?

It looks like what it is being advocated is you will have the same amount of flying with more pilots. How is NJ going to generate more revenue to pay for more pilots and give everyone the raises they want?

 

[greygoose]

I am just itching to get my minimums to apply at Netjets. It ideally is the job I want to finish my career with.

 

[G4G5]

Part 91 Fractional Rules Compliance Deadline Today
Today is the deadline for fractional-ownership operators in business before Nov. 17, 2003, to comply with Part 91 Subpart K or Part 135. “Many fractional-ownership programs will offer owners and potential buyers of fractional-ownership interests the choice to have their flights operated under 91K or 135,” said NBAA. “A fractional program manager’s ability to charter an aircraft under Part 135 when it is not being used by fractional owners serves to defray the cost of operation and make fractional ownership more affordable. However, those who purchase a fractional-ownership interest operated under Part 135 may incur the costly consequence of deferred-depreciation deductions and increased federal excise tax.” Meanwhile, Atlanta-based aviation placement company AIR projects that the four major fractional aircraft ownership companies will hire at least 1,000 pilots this year, more than double the 482 hired last year. NetJets, the largest fractional operator, is expected to hire more than a third of these pilots. The company said it will hire “at least 300 pilots this year” in response to an increased demand for fractional shares. Flight Options, Bombardier Flexjet and CitationShares are expected to account for most of the other new hires.

 

[gunfyter]

It looks like what it is being advocated is you will have the same amount of flying with more pilots. How is NJ going to generate more revenue to pay for more pilots and give everyone the raises they want?

These regs are brought to the Fractionals courtesy of the COMPLAINTS of 135 Air Taxi operators. That because Fracs operated 91 there was an unfair competitive advantage. What the 135 guys wanted was not more regulation on the fracs but RELIEF from the 135 rest rules they operate under.

Now the Fracs are THE LARGEST 135 operations. How long do you think it will be before Fracs sue the FAA to FORCE 135 companies to comply with 135 rest? Because I am going to stick my neck out here and make a claim... Many 135 operators do NOT comply with the Law. There is a 135 Rulemaking ARC going on right now... the major focus of the ARC for operators is the Crew duty and flight times. They know the rules they just disregard them cause the POI lets them.

Safety is not FREE... there is a cost. Prices will have to be higher.

Pilots working in 135 Sweat Shops have subsidized management long enough.

Do you think passengers want to fly on Jets of companies who BREAK the RULES to achieve cheaper costs or Do they want the Rules complied with?

Those who want to fly CHEAP can fly with the CHEATERS....

But i would not want to be wearing the Shoes of the Cheaters after an accident investigation that showed the Operator's Rest Rules of crews did not comply with the LAW.

 

[buttercup]

I am just itching to get my minimums to apply at Netjets. It ideally is the job I want to finish my
career with.

LOL!! Lil' too much to drink at the bar tonight buddy

 

[Lrjet55]

91K will do very little for our quality of life at NJA. Its realy a misconception actualy.

91K means we cannot sit around at the hotel or where ever on indefinate standby. It means if you get your show time the day before it cannot be be changed.
It does mean that you will sitting around the FBO for a full 14 hours every day just because. It doesnt matter if you have no ariplane, your airplane is in maintenance, you have no other crew member or you have no trip scheduled. You will just sit at the FBO all day, every day no matter what.

Before 91K we got shut down and atleast you hung out at the hotel, got to work out and relax. You could go on hourlies if you were out running around. Now there is none of that. On my last 6 day tour I sat at the FBO for 14 hours with a 10 hour turn every day even though my airplane was in maintenance and not coming out. On the 1 day I flew I still sat for the remainder of the day until 14 hours just to be back after 10 hours of rest.

If this is what you want your life to be like come on board. I am sure many people will not share my opinion but this is mine.

We have the most uneducated, unreliable, inconsistent and general inability to think outside the box scheduling department. These tools who schedule at NJA do not answer to anyone. How can a group who does such a poor job be given cart blanch? Its actions like these that will be the very demise of NJA.

We cannot continue to operate like this. We are inefficient and verging on unsafe. And before anyone starts screaming "fatigued" be aware that if you do so prior to being assigned an actual trip you risk the good 'ole carpet dance. Yes folks, they have become the new thing again.

Just my opinion.

 

[gunfyter]

91K does not require this abuse. This is likely punitive.

However 2 hours of overtime everyday @ $50 /hour is $700 ot every tour. It sure beats bidding the FLEX. Hurt me some more... 26 tours/yr Works out to an 18K/yr raise for me....

 

[General Lee]

91K will do very little for our quality of life at NJA. Its realy a misconception actualy.

91K means we cannot sit around at the hotel or where ever on indefinate standby. It means if you get your show time the day before it cannot be be changed.
It does mean that you will sitting around the FBO for a full 14 hours every day just because. It doesnt matter if you have no ariplane, your airplane is in maintenance, you have no other crew member or you have no trip scheduled. You will just sit at the FBO all day, every day no matter what.

Before 91K we got shut down and atleast you hung out at the hotel, got to work out and relax. You could go on hourlies if you were out running around. Now there is none of that. On my last 6 day tour I sat at the FBO for 14 hours with a 10 hour turn every day even though my airplane was in maintenance and not coming out. On the 1 day I flew I still sat for the remainder of the day until 14 hours just to be back after 10 hours of rest.

If this is what you want your life to be like come on board. I am sure many people will not share my opinion but this is mine.

We have the most uneducated, unreliable, inconsistent and general inability to think outside the box scheduling department. These tools who schedule at NJA do not answer to anyone. How can a group who does such a poor job be given cart blanch? Its actions like these that will be the very demise of NJA.

We cannot continue to operate like this. We are inefficient and verging on unsafe. And before anyone starts screaming "fatigued" be aware that if you do so prior to being assigned an actual trip you risk the good 'ole carpet dance. Yes folks, they have become the new thing again.

Just my opinion.

My friend at Netjets said his schedule changes often during trips and now they cannot "bug him" at 2am without giving him another full 10 hours of rest, which to him is great. They have to give him his schedule and then a full 10 hours, or not give him his schedule and give him a lot more. He said he can finally get some rest or at least know he has the ability to hit the strip clubs without being bothered on layovers.


Bye Bye--General Lee