New FAA Rest rules are near

[luv2fly]

Does anyone have anything factual about the new rules. I have only heard about the 9/24. We just thought our manning was fat!

 

[rudder]

It is amazing how archaic your current and proposed FDT rules are in the US. How can the industry represent itself as 'safe' when it cannot even guarantee a pilot at least 8 hours of sleep between shifts?

The rules in Canada are also outdated, but at least we recognise the need for opportunity to sleep (Canadian Air Regulations require an opportunity for not less than 8 hours of prone rest between any 2 duty periods). That most certainly does not include pre or post flight duties, transportation to the hotel, or security delays. Therefore it is virtually impossible to plan a layover of less than 11 hours.

We already have requirements for at least 36 hours off in every 7 consecutive days, or a minimum of 3 consecutive days off in any string of 17 days. Any 3 consecutive duty periods over 12 hours must be followed by not less than 24 hours off. We have a max scheduled duty period of 14 hours. Extensions due to IRROPS on day of flight are at crew discretion only. Duty day extensions increase the minimum rest period afterwards. We can fly unlimited flight time within a single duty period, max 40 in 7.

Many collective agreements improve on the regulatory minimums. And there is a review underway of the existing regulations with a view to tightening duty day limits based on start time and sectors.

Certainly looks like the operators lobby group got to the FAA.

 

[michael707767]

It is amazing how archaic your current and proposed FDT rules are in the US. How can the industry represent itself as 'safe' when it cannot even guarantee a pilot at least 8 hours of sleep between shifts?

Certainly looks like the operators lobby group got to the FAA.

You are 100% correct. We may not always get 8 hours sleep, but there should always be the opportunity. At a minimum that would mean 9 hours in the hotel room. Anything other than that is simple pandering to the airlines and evidence that lobby groups mean more to the FAA than flight safety.

 

[luv2fly]

bad link

 

[sky-sign]

About 1/3 of the report is about how much it will cost, if implemented !
You are right, It is all about Safety.....

 

[sniper]

Anybody stop to think Colgan crashed because the two pilots were in over their heads?

I seem to remember CVR comments about "I've never seen that before" etc.. I never read "boy I'm tired because I slept on the couch."

Gup

Just like the SWA Burbank crew? or MDW crew?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Several times I've called crew scheduling after a delay as we were going to the hotel and "awarded" my crew an extra hour of rest.

Be a captain and make this crap up as you go!!

 

[jonjuan]

You are 100% correct. We may not always get 8 hours sleep, but there should always be the opportunity. At a minimum that would mean 9 hours in the hotel room. Anything other than that is simple pandering to the airlines and evidence that lobby groups mean more to the FAA than flight safety.

As well as the opportunity to have a drink for 30 minutes.

 

[scoreboardII]

None of these rules will resolve issues of those who commute from the West Coast all night to fly a full schedule the next day... Watch out for what you want-- next thing the Gov't will screw with is making you live in base-- see how that'll fly!!!

Why do I have to fly with the clown who does this? This new rule requires companies to note the problems they have and rectify, ie, require in place 9 hours prior to duty. And yes, this means be home from your vacation in time to get 9 hours at domicile.
Sorry commuters, commute in earlier or move. What other technically precise job allows you to show up tired?

 

[jonjuan]

Why do I have to fly with the clown who does this? This new rule requires companies to note the problems they have and rectify, ie, require in place 9 hours prior to duty. And yes, this means be home from your vacation in time to get 9 hours at domicile.
Sorry commuters, commute in earlier or move. What other technically precise job allows you to show up tired?

No kidding. A few months ago I sat next to a guy commuting from lax-nyc during the day to start his redeye to europe.

 

[Grizz]

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/recently_published/media/FAA_2010_22626.pdf

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Even better when you get "breifed" on how you're gonna haul it back to base to make their 25 minute connection for the commute back to Denver.. Cause if they miss it, the next one doesn't leave for another 45 minutes..

 

[stb]

I thought the new rules would be ground breaking stuff like,
2 or 3 landings, 9 hours of flight (A bone for the ATA lobby)
4 landings, 8 hours of flight
5 landings, 7 hours of flight
6 landings, 6 hours of flight
7 landings, 5 hours of flight

Max duty day of 12 hours
Min rest of 12 hours

This "new" stuff is a polished up turd.

 

[NuGuy]

Why do I have to fly with the clown who does this? This new rule requires companies to note the problems they have and rectify, ie, require in place 9 hours prior to duty. And yes, this means be home from your vacation in time to get 9 hours at domicile.
Sorry commuters, commute in earlier or move. What other technically precise job allows you to show up tired?

The new NRPM REQUIRES you to report anyone who shows up too fatigued this to the company. It's now on par with suspecting alcohol usage.

Nu

 

[crj567]

Who needs facts?? This is FI....you can just spit out random crap that floats in your brain.....

Where is it posted the "idiots" want this? Show me and I'll back off and apologize....til then STFU

-Based on the content of the above post, you have little right to call anyone else an idiot. Ever.

 

[michael707767]

It seems to me this is going to cost the regionals a lot of money. But it's going to save the majors a lot of money. How many regionals have flights long enough to take advantage of ten hours of block time in a day? I suspect though they have a lot of 5 leg days.

Bottom line, I don't think it's going to do a darn thing to help make pilots less fatigued.

 

[T3700]

Why do I have to fly with the clown who does this? This new rule requires companies to note the problems they have and rectify, ie, require in place 9 hours prior to duty. And yes, this means be home from your vacation in time to get 9 hours at domicile.
Sorry commuters, commute in earlier or move. What other technically precise job allows you to show up tired?

You are required to show up for duty adequately rested. There is no allowance for showing up tired. I suppose some superior person who lives in domicile has never shown up for work after a bad nights sleep or no sleep with a crying baby at home? Do you really think forcing someone to commute in on the 5am flight for a 9pm show is going to result in a better rested pilot than one who commutes in on a 5pm flight for a 9pm show? Not everyone can just move to their domicile. I suppose they should just quit?

The FAA should have followed the recommendations of the ARC and left the commuting issue alone.

 

[Metro752]

Who needs facts?? This is FI....you can just spit out random crap that floats in your brain.....

Where is it posted the "idiots" want this? Show me and I'll back off and apologize....til then STFU

Go away, and finish your can of Alpo.

 

[Raoul Duke]

can someone post the regs here, or a link? Are transcon turns permitted?

 

[scoreboardII]

You are required to show up for duty adequately rested. There is no allowance for showing up tired.

They are tied together, both required rest and ability to perform will be the word of the day.

Allowances will be provided for the dude who's baby is crying all night, who's AC died, etc, but catering to the folks who fly a redeye and show up claiming "I'm rested" is a foul.

Companies will track this and put rules in place which will drive the fatigue call out of existance. How? You call in fatigued, they ask why, you say you commute, they say show up early enough, you continue to commute and remind yourself never call fatigued again. Solved? hardly.

How many careers allow you to commute to work and show up tired? Oh right, none. So yes, move to domicile.