New Delta Judge Quote

[FlyingSig]

In regards to how much pilots are paid vs. other employees are paid in a discussion with management's lawyer at yesterday's hearing:

"Well, I'm trying to say something to you. If you're going to tell me that the person that's standing atthe counter collecting baggage checks is as important as thepilot that's flying the plane, then you and I have differencein values. "

 

[General Lee]

Amazing. Well, I still think we should all get some sort of pay cuts, but not one group mainly getting the brunt of it. We'll see.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Amazing. Well, I still think we should all get some sort of pay cuts

Dang General, don't beg for the cuts.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Maybe she's finally coming around.

What kind of staffing levels are the suits asking for? I'm hoping an agreement can be reached where any 100 seater winds up at mainline -- regardless of the pay. Otherwise, there may be more furloughs if DL starts dropping leases like NW is doing (and UAL did.)

Good luck guys.

 

[adqrip]

Halleluia

Well maybe this lady ain't gonna gonna let the suits snow her.

 

[General Lee]

Maybe she's finally coming around.

What kind of staffing levels are the suits asking for? I'm hoping an agreement can be reached where any 100 seater winds up at mainline -- regardless of the pay. Otherwise, there may be more furloughs if DL starts dropping leases like NW is doing (and UAL did.)

Good luck guys.

Well, we are still sort of short thanks to the 2300 Captain retirements over the last year or so. Parking some planes could reduce that need, but apparently some of the 737-200s we were going to park came back with some GREAT deals, like $15,000 a month in leases (compared to $285,000 a month for some of the MD88s, and compare that with some of the 737-800 rates of only $125,000 a month). And, I have heard that the current lease rate talks have been going well.

As far as getting the 100 seat rates, we want a rate and a guarantee we will order some, since we already have rates for the 737-700 and -900, but with none on order. We also are trying to get the 79 seaters on property, but that may be a bit tougher. Even the judge asked the Delta lawyer why the Delta pilots couldn't fly the 79 seaters? To which he replied "the benefits package would make it too expensive" (even though the company pretty much wanted to throw out all of our benefits with this 1113c hearing). The judge responded that Dalpa did not have to give it to them for free, and will assign it a monetary value. I know we have a bid in for those 79 seaters too, so it will be interesting to see if in the end we do get them also. It will be more expensive for Delta now to get scope back, thanks to the judge. We will see I guess.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

What is the bid for the 79 seater? I'm just trying to adjust my expectations for the concessions ASA will have to take if General, GooglesPisano and their friends succeed in "getting scope back," "no matter what it pays."

I'm glad General made it clear that his MEC did not sell scope and isn't now trying to buy it back. To observers like me it appears that the Judge wants a value assigned to that flying and I was getting confused - but General and friends have made it clear - if Delta awards flying to Comair pilots then the Comair pilots "stole" the flying. But, if the Delta MEC negotiates rates lower than Comair pilots to get airplanes on their property "at any cost" that isn't stealing, whipsaw, or bad faith dealing by ALPA.

My friends who work with ILFC are saying the 787 will be a revolutionary airplane. Point to point makes a lot of sense on longer International flights. General, if I were you, I would be focused on the other end of your code share. Hasn't ALPA spent enough negotiating capital trying to enforce Duane Woerth's arbitrary 70 seat line in the sand?

I hope with Delta's fleet numbers staying up that some of the excellent pilots I have had the pleasure of flying with on the DCI side return to their jobs at Delta, at pay rates that make these jobs worth returning to.

 

[michael707767]

We also are trying to get the 79 seaters on property, but that may be a bit tougher. Even the judge asked the Delta lawyer why the Delta pilots couldn't fly the 79 seaters?

spoke to an MEC officer today. The MEC feels without dissent that anything over 70 seats should be flown by Delta pilots.

 

[GogglesPisano]

What is the bid for the 79 seater? I'm just trying to adjust my expectations for the concessions ASA will have to take if General, GooglesPisano and their friends succeed in "getting scope back," "no matter what it pays."

That's Goggles, thank-you very much.

BTW, I don't work for Delta. But I do believe all Delta flying belongs to Delta Airlines seniority list pilots. They may choose to allow Delta to contract out less desirable flying on less desirable aircraft, but there has to be a limit -- especially with guys on furlough.

And before you respond -- yes I do have CRJ's in my past. But I never salivated at the thought of mainline shrinking so that my regional could get bigger RJ's.

 

[General Lee]

What is the bid for the 79 seater? I'm just trying to adjust my expectations for the concessions ASA will have to take if General, GooglesPisano and their friends succeed in "getting scope back," "no matter what it pays."

I'm glad General made it clear that his MEC did not sell scope and isn't now trying to buy it back. To observers like me it appears that the Judge wants a value assigned to that flying and I was getting confused - but General and friends have made it if Delta awards flying to Comair pilots then the Comair pilots "stole" the flying. But, if the Delta MEC negotiates rates lower than Comair pilots to get airplanes on their property "at any cost" that isn't stealing, whipsaw, or bad faith dealing by ALPA.

My friends who work with ILFC are saying the 787 will be a revolutionary airplane. Point to point makes a lot of sense on longer International flights. General, if I were you, I would be focused on the other end of your code share. Hasn't ALPA spent enough negotiating capital trying to enforce Duane Woerth's arbitrary 70 seat line in the sand?

I hope with Delta's fleet numbers staying up that some of the excellent pilots I have had the pleasure of flying with on the DCI side return to their jobs at Delta, at pay rates that make these jobs worth returning to.

Fins,

And again, we are happy that you guys at ASA offered our furloughs a job. That was nice and I hope we reciprocate someday. As far as the pay rates for 79 seaters or 100 seaters, they would probably be more than current 70 seat rates, that just makes sense. We are currently competing with the new 100 seat rates from Jetblue, since they have somehow turned into the current benchmark. Dalpa will have to balance our want of higher pay with the current competitve pay rates at other airlines. AWA/USAir just gave a tad bit higher 100 seat rate for their eventual E190s, so that is encouraging.
This is pure speculation because I am not a negotiator. Also, the judge agreed that code share scope is also NOT free for Delta. (remember the 6 things they wanted for free---and her response to code share, block hours, and 79 set jets?)

As far as the 787s, I hope someday we get some. I have an article to prove that we are already interested, although probably don't have the credit currently.


By JAMES WALLACE
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER AEROSPACE REPORTER

After a two-day 787 "summit" in Seattle with about 140 airline customers, financial institutions and supplier partners, The Boeing Co. revealed several improvements Thursday to its Dreamliner.

The new jet will have an inch more cabin width and a stretched version of the plane will have more range.

One of the customers at the Boeing meeting, Delta Air Lines, the nation's third-largest carrier, is considering the 787 to replace its large fleet of 767s, said Ed Lohr, director of fleet strategy for Delta.



We'll see. We need to get through this really TURBULENT time right now, and scope is very very important.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[SWAdude]

spoke to an MEC officer today. The MEC feels without dissent that anything over 70 seats should be flown by Delta pilots.

Anything with jet engines should be flown be Delta pilots.

It was that mentality that got the legacies behind to begin with!

Get them on the property first, then negotiate the rates in time.

Just like the B scale.

 

[E120ASA]

Wow, wasn’t it the low cost pukes like you that started all of this?

 

[RP 04]

BTW, I don't work for Delta. But I do believe all Delta flying belongs to Delta Airlines seniority list pilots.

Hopefully you don't do any flying at World that "belongs" to other airlines... If you don't, good on you (highly doubt it though)

 

[SWAdude]

Wow, wasn’t it the low cost pukes like you that started all of this?

uh...no

We had nothing to do with RJ's.

 

[TAZ MAN]

Wow, wasn’t it the low cost pukes like you that started all of this?

You really think that!!

Denial will get you nowhere.

 

[800Dog]

Fins,

We are currently competing with the new 100 seat rates from Jetblue, since they have somehow turned into the current benchmark. Dalpa will have to balance our want of higher pay with the current competitve pay rates at other airlines. AWA/USAir just gave a tad bit higher 100 seat rate for their eventual E190s, so that is encouraging.



What about Airtrans 100 seat rate? Who says Jetblue is the current benchmark?

 

[General Lee]

I'd prefer the Airtran 100 seat rate, but good ole management will state that Jetblue has the most competitive rate.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jester757]

General hits some good points with respect the to rates that have offically been negotiated: M88 rates averaged about 240K mo and the 767ER was 600K mo. New rates have the 88s around 80K and the ERs down to 200K which is to say at minimum a huge savings.

Now as far as the guy whining about how "scope will hurt him" he is on crack. FYI - I got furloughed from DAL for 18 months while I watched all the connection carries hire and get bigger jets. With the exception the the Comair Nazis, all the connection carriers were kind to the furloughed DAL guys and let them swing the gear for their company. I promise you that will not be forgotten when DAL starts to hire someday. I can also promise the DAL will not forget how Comair told DAL furoughed guys to shove it. Can you say "what comes around goes around?" But I digress... scope needs to be there for me as much as it does you - unless you never want to get out of the commuters. It will keep mainline guys on the property and make a place for the guys coming up to go to. Payscales have been sent down to some if not all of the commuters. The rate proposed is one rate for all AC flown at that company. Rate for 50 - 100 seats, 12 year Captain at Comair is $81 an hour. What does that work out to about a 20% pay cut for those guys? Not bad considerin mainline is fast approaching a 50% pay cut!

As far as the judge goes...I think the way she seems through the DAL attorneys and hammers them is great. I just hope the DALPA attorneys are up to the task! I guess we will see...just in time for Christmas.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Deleted so as to not hurt anyone's feelings.

 

[kngarthur]

Wow, wasn’t it the low cost pukes like you that started all of this?

Why don't you make like a tree---and get outta here!

 

[spinproof]

Well, we are still sort of short thanks to the 2300 Captain retirements over the last year or so. Parking some planes could reduce that need, but apparently some of the 737-200s we were going to park came back with some GREAT deals, like $15,000 a month in leases (compared to $285,000 a month for some of the MD88s, and compare that with some of the 737-800 rates of only $125,000 a month). And, I have heard that the current lease rate talks have been going well.




Bye Bye--General Lee

So why are you so concerned about under 100 seat rates and who flies that segment? You need to concentrate on what you guys do best. Are RJ's gonna fly to Hawaii, Europe, South America? Do you presently have any pilots on furlough that flys anything under 100 seats?

You need to get your heads out of your collective butts and worry about code share? Thats where open skies may bite you next!

Your vendetta against Comair Pilots is silly and tiresome. Personally you seem to be a thoughtful person on most subjects but your penchat for regressive bitterness is not becoming and I would suggest beneath you. You know they had nothing to do with that but still you persist.

Put your resources toward becoming a stronger pilot group and protect what you do best and have airframes.

 

[Stealthh21]

Maybe they should return those nice new bathrooms they have on their airplanes.

 

[Crash Pad]

Delta Restructuring
1. We will reduce the number of types in the fleet.... or add a couple to get the EMB or CRJ on the property.
2. International will be added because that's where the money is... or open skies will drain that bank.
3. Reduce cost by outsourcing flying to the regionals... or add flying to mainline.
I see already that management has come up with a plan that is doomed to failure. Hope you guys get the scope, the 70+ seats... but in the end you might want to give Delta an alternative plan for making money. Not saying you aren't right I'm just saying management clearly had a plan that is now useless.

 

[flaps30]

reduce costs by outsourcing?

So do you think Skywest is cheaper to outsource than Comair or the former ASA flying the same route ? Skywest makes tons of money off Delta, that money should have stayed within Delta not the Skywest shareholders.
Delta can't get out of its own way, its too busy trying to fluck someone over to save a dime while paying a dollar in the process.

 

[RP 04]

So gogglespisano, are you flying other airlines work, or not?

 

[crashpad]

Skywest makes tons of money off Delta, that money should have stayed within Delta not the Skywest shareholders.
quote]

Couldn't agree more, it's time for the feeders to pony up and give till it hurts.

 

[GogglesPisano]

So gogglespisano, are you flying other airlines work, or not?

70% of our business comes from Uncle Sam. A portion of the other 30% comes from picking up slack from other cargo carriers who do not have the lift to carry it. So yes, we do fly other airlines work, but we don't try to circumvent scope clauses to get it. It is contractually agreed to by all parties involved. Like polar and atlas and omni and tradewinds and cagolux ...

We don't sue for it.

 

[General Lee]

So why are you so concerned about under 100 seat rates and who flies that segment? You need to concentrate on what you guys do best. Are RJ's gonna fly to Hawaii, Europe, South America? Do you presently have any pilots on furlough that flys anything under 100 seats?

You need to get your heads out of your collective butts and worry about code share? Thats where open skies may bite you next!

Your vendetta against Comair Pilots is silly and tiresome. Personally you seem to be a thoughtful person on most subjects but your penchat for regressive bitterness is not becoming and I would suggest beneath you. You know they had nothing to do with that but still you persist.

Put your resources toward becoming a stronger pilot group and protect what you do best and have airframes.

Well thanks, I guess? Look, we are looking at it all. We aren't focusing on just the 79 seaters (except we are on this board). The judge even pointed out that international code share is NOT free for Delta, and also lowering block hours, and that 79 seater. Dalpa is looking at all of it, we on this board seem to be focusing on the 79 seat issue.

My personal vendetta against Comair is not really against any of their pilots as a whole, but rather against their leaders---like Lawson and that goof Ford. I am always professional when I see them in the terminal or on a jumpseat, and I know the average line guy is not making those outlandish decisions. The top 20% of Comair rule the roost, even though they are not the majority. I understand that. But, that doesn't mean I want them to get bigger planes at the expense of our DL furloughs. Not helping out when our furloughs needed it really put a stamp on the Comair pilot leadership. (later, like a miracle, they offered our furloughs jobs, about 2 years after ASA and CHQ did)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[spinproof]

Well thanks, I guess? Look, we are looking at it all. We aren't focusing on just the 79 seaters (except we are on this board). The judge even pointed out that international code share is NOT free for Delta, and also lowering block hours, and that 79 seater. Dalpa is looking at all of it, we on this board seem to be focusing on the 79 seat issue.




Bye Bye--General Lee

OK. Point accepted. My thought would be you would be better off keeping the airframes you have and the increase in International flying put everyone not retired back to work!. Why should you worry about under 100 seat airframes? You dont have any, no pilots are furloughed in them, you're not likely to get them nor should you even care!

Do you not feel code share is a bigger problem?

 

[FDJ2]

OK. Point accepted. My thought would be you would be better off keeping the airframes you have

Right now that would be all airframes with over 70 seats are to be flown by DAL pilots, so that is exactly what we are doing.