New CS Rumors

[m4j2t]

Flagshipper,

I personally don't want someone else filing my flight plans, planning my routes around weather, giving me my alternates, planning my meals, ect.. I have NEVER had anyone do that for me. I have been doing it myself for my whole flying career. Some who have never been in the military don't understand how we have operated or operate. Pilots, particularly the PIC is in charge of EVERYTHING from arranging our own hotels, meals, rental cars, diplomatic clearances, customs, ect.. I have been carrying the same lunch box with me in the airplane for 20+ years. We are doing it all and I LOVE IT. CS has you file your own flight plans, and seem to give the pilots some relative autonomy in their flight decision making...that is right down my alley. I guess I don't want someone sitting at a desk telling me where and how I am going to fly my mission. That, in my book is for me to decide, plan and execute.

This is not an attack, but I need to say that for all you claim to know about the industry, this shows how little you do know. In the military have you ever been given 14 minutes to plan, load, and launch your aircraft? I doubt it. It happened to me a few tours back. I mean to say that we had no idea we were on a trip, much less what the destination was until 14 minutes prior to the owner showing up at the airport,--and when they show up they expect to leave. Oh yeah there were three legs total (two more recovery legs after the first) with a max ground turn of 35 minutes. The lack of full service dispatch was an obstacle for us on this day. We would have benefitted greatly from the help. (If anyone is thinking about telling me we should have denied the trip, or has other suggestions on how we should have handled the scenario--save it for another thread).

The real lesson here is that dispatch does not dictate to the crew. A professional dispatcher works as part of the crew--as others have stated. Your statement about not being told about how to plan or execute a flight seem a little bit stand off-ish; like you know better and need no help from anyone--a one man army... I prefer to fly with people who solicit and employ all the help they can get. Those are the aviators who stand out; not the people who take it all upon their own shoulders. Real dispatch is a tremendous resource. It should be thought of as such, and it is something for CS to work toward attaining.

Again this is nothing meant for you to take personally; just my own thoughts after having read your post. I wish you success in your application. CS is a great place to work, and there is still room for improvement.

 

[dime line]

You have to pay your dues as the new guy/gal. That is going to be the case with any job.

In the military, civilian world, it doesn't matter. The 'cherry' has to know he/she will have to do this. No problems there for me.

CS appears to always be implementing ways to improve, while remaining profitable and doing it in a way that considers the outcome for everyone. I REALLY like that.

I am fairly certain the folks in management have their reasons for this. I enjoy watching this company adjust for the economy, growth and all while working with their people. This would be an interesting company to cover in a college business class.

why, because you said so. Its your ideology that screws your fellow man. I'm done paying my"dues"

 

[SKYLAWYER]

This is not an attack, but I need to say that for all you claim to know about the industry, this shows how little you do know. In the military have you ever been given 14 minutes to plan, load, and launch your aircraft? I doubt it. It happened to me a few tours back. I mean to say that we had no idea we were on a trip, much less what the destination was until 14 minutes prior to the owner showing up at the airport,--and when they show up they expect to leave. Oh yeah there were three legs total (two more recovery legs after the first) with a max ground turn of 35 minutes. The lack of full service dispatch was an obstacle for us on this day. We would have benefitted greatly from the help. (If anyone is thinking about telling me we should have denied the trip, or has other suggestions on how we should have handled the scenario--save it for another thread).

I think it is completely unfair for you to compare two scenarios and then refuse to listen to suggestions about the situation. So please forgive me for disregarding you last sentence above. The company can issue u a 2 min notice to get airborne it they want to. It is up to you to use your PIC discretion and take as much or as little bit of time as you find necessary to get the job done. We have a dispatch department that is fully capable of filing flight plans and I have been placed in the same situation previously and simply told the person on the phone to file me a flight plan and fax the paperwork over to me. ( Your level of confidence in the person doing the planning is another topic for debate so I can personally understand your hesitation. This would not change in a full service dispatch as we both know it would be the same person doing the flight planning anyway, or worse one of our wonderful IT guys will develop a software to do it. That's a nightmare to wake up from in cold sweats) The help is available for us to use, granted its a Junior varsity squad but if you feel better there is always the option of going straight to the supervisors desk. One of the hurdles we would have at CS going to full dispatch is that many of the guys are so use to doing it they feel no-one else could possibly do it as well. For the first 6 months you will spend your time recalculating everything they send just because of the lack of confidence we would have. Claiming a military person does not know what it means to scramble quickly shows a little bit of ignorance on your part relating to the jobs our armed forces pilots have. You think the guys that got the call to be over the city on September 11th had 14 minutes? I'm guessing they would have loved 14 minutes that particular day. Don't be surprised to find a military person capable of loading, planning, and launching an aircraft in the same amount of time you had on this particular day. The military has their units that resemble Delta will all the support one aviator could possibly need. They also have their units that resemble CS where the guys are taxed with a much heavier workload. My guess is the biggest difference being when they reach out for help they trust the help they get.

The real lesson here is that dispatch does not dictate to the crew. A professional dispatcher works as part of the crew--as others have stated. Your statement about not being told about how to plan or execute a flight seem a little bit stand off-ish; like you know better and need no help from anyone--a one man army... I prefer to fly with people who solicit and employ all the help they can get. Those are the aviators who stand out; not the people who take it all upon their own shoulders. Real dispatch is a tremendous resource. It should be thought of as such, and it is something for CS to work toward attaining.

I agree with you 100 percent on this one. I think the company should strive toward better support and full dispatch. Until then we simply need to take our times and assure we get home safely each week with out a certified letter from the FAA waiting on us.


I think every one in the aviation business has experiences that are unique and can be used to aid each other. As soon as one group thinks the other group has nothing to offer to a particular situation we are in deep trouble.

 

[gunfyter]

Four 7's

I know where you are coming from. But I would be applying CS, FlexJets, and NJ (probably even XOjet) unless you know for sure you will be hired at CS.

The word is starting to get out that the Fracs are the place to be. Its not so easy to be hired as it once was.

 

[m4j2t]

I think it is completely unfair for you to compare two scenarios and then refuse to listen to suggestions about the situation. So please forgive me for disregarding you last sentence above.

I was afraid of this. Sorry to confuse. I never refuse to listen to anything reasonable, but I consider this topic (how we handled the situation) a thread hijack. I would happily discuss the endless possibilities, but as I stated--in a different thread.

Claiming a military person does not know what it means to scramble quickly shows a little bit of ignorance on your part relating to the jobs our armed forces pilots have. You think the guys that got the call to be over the city on September 11th had 14 minutes? I'm guessing they would have loved 14 minutes that particular day.

I honestly didn't see this coming, nor was it my intention to bash the military. I would not compare our company to any member of the armed forces who's been tasked with maintaining an alert level in the defense of our country. The aircraft that day were prepared well in advance of the time the scramble order was given; the entire base was on alert. They were so prepared they were air born six minutes after the first scramble order was given to Otis AFB. I may be ignorant to the operations of the military, as you suggest, but I doubt that was solely the effort of the PIC. My post was not about whether he knows what it means to scramble quickly. It was about the benefit of having dispatch to help you "scramble."

Don't be surprised to find a military person capable of loading, planning, and launching an aircraft in the same amount of time you had on this particular day.

My issue was never with the capability of any pilot anywhere. It is with the attitude that I sensed from the poster. His stating that he doesn't want anyone to tell him anything about how to file, fly, deviate...etc, and how he stated the issue of the pilot "especially the PIC" being "in control" smacks to me like someone who likes to micro-manage. To me there is a difference between being the PIC responsible for the flight, and being "in control" of everything. Example: I can stock the airplane just fine on my own; I don't need some-one looking over my shoulder while they have me count the sugar packets.

I could very well be wrong about this individual, but if I interpreted this attitude others may as well. My statements were made in an attempt to let this person know they are putting out this signal. Even if not everyone agrees with me, some may, and it may impede his attempt at employment. If his real attitude is different from what I perceived maybe I have helped him realise that there may be a better way to represent himself.

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I ask you to reread my post in this light: It is not the capabilities of any pilot with which I have an issue. It is the attitudes of the people with which I fly. My point being I hope CS continues to do a great job screening out the "I like to do things myself without you guys telling me how" attitudes, and hires the "I can do things myself, but I would love some help from you and everyone else." Given the latter attitude coupled with a real dispatch (read competent, professional, and experienced dispatchers) in the situation we found ourselves that day, and things would have been a lot less stressful.

I agree with you 100 percent on this one. I think the company should strive toward better support and full dispatch. Until then we simply need to take our times and assure we get home safely each week with out a certified letter from the FAA waiting on us.

Amen

I think every one in the aviation business has experiences that are unique and can be used to aid each other. As soon as one group thinks the other group has nothing to offer to a particular situation we are in deep trouble.

Just to finally put it to bed. This is not my attitude. I believe that the "other groups" have much to offer, and that we will absorb the most from those representatives of such groups who posses a CRM oriented attitude.

 

[Diesel]

Wow skylawyer comparing 9/11 to a teb/pbi run? Talk about comparing apples to oranges. The two have nothing to do with each other but whatever.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

Wow skylawyer comparing 9/11 to a teb/pbi run? Talk about comparing apples to oranges. The two have nothing to do with each other but whatever.

I was not directly comparing the two incidents, I was pointing out how military pilots are fully capable of handeling operations in an expedited manner, and using a situation very common to most people to illustrate that point. I am not that ignorant to think the two situations have anything important in common and have a hard time believing that you can truly think that was my intention. I'm actually shocked that with several paragraphs of writing that is all you took from my post.

 

[SKYLAWYER]

I honestly didn't see this coming, nor was it my intention to bash the military. I would not compare our company to any member of the armed forces who's been tasked with maintaining an alert level in the defense of our country. The aircraft that day were prepared well in advance of the time the scramble order was given; the entire base was on alert. They were so prepared they were air born six minutes after the first scramble order was given to Otis AFB. I may be ignorant to the operations of the military, as you suggest, but I doubt that was solely the effort of the PIC. My post was not about whether he knows what it means to scramble quickly. It was about the benefit of having dispatch to help you "scramble."

I never read anything in your post that would make me feel you attempted to bash the military. Most civilian aviators are very respectful of the job our counterparts do in defense of this country and I would not think anything different of you. One major point of my post was that we DO have help. It is up to the PIC to utilize that help to its fullest potential. CRM comes in many flavors and if the company provides a nascar pit team to help us on turnarounds but the crew refuses to let them help it ultimately would not matter. Finally nothing at CS needs to be solely the effort of the PIC, you have a team to aid in your scramble as well.

Just to finally put it to bed. This is not my attitude. I believe that the "other groups" have much to offer, and that we will absorb the most from those representatives of such groups who posses a CRM oriented attitude.

Your post ultimately has an underlying tone of education so I agree this is best allowed to go to bed as well. I just felt that there was a perception that 7777 could not possibly understand what we go through and that his comments were made in a naive state. I was simply attempting to point out why I believe that even through he was not a civilian frac pilot, why he could possibly understand some of the intricacies of our type of operation. As I consider you family in the same fight, heres my hug and apology. I will move on now.:beer:
P.S - I agree more pilots with positive CRM attitudes are exactly what we need.

P.P.S - I understand any hesitation on your part to utilize the current office staff in helping plan flights, check notams, and keep you legal. I don't blame you one bit in this area. Just was pointing out that they do exist.

 

[waka]

True, ok the not so rich (but still don't care about money) you fly around, Tell them you ride MARTA, then take them to Vegas and their briefcase of money to waste on the table

You point out a disparity that doesn't exist. Explain exactly why you think riding MARTA at your option is an issue if you're flying Mr. Big Bucks around.

I have no problem with riding on MARTA before 9ish and on the North/South line....I actually prefer it when I need transportation to PDK.

 

[dime line]

You point out a disparity that doesn't exist. Explain exactly why you think riding MARTA at your option is an issue if you're flying Mr. Big Bucks around.

I have no problem with riding on MARTA before 9ish and on the North/South line....I actually prefer it when I need transportation to PDK.

You can ride Marta all day long, that is your problem. But the day the company I work for (and maybe you might be working for) decides well "waka" rides Marta all the time, lets see, lets start a new policy in ATL,PDK, will ride Marta. Now it becomes my problem. I will not ride Marta. My life is worth more

My post implies that you (a pilot) should be properly paid, so that You (a pilot) should not have to ride Marta. Would your wife ride Marta?