new crew rest rules

[cessnapilot]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704133804575198362614488940.html

make your voice heard....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

 

[gutshotdraw]

I might if I could read the entire article without having to subscribe....

 

[EWR_FO]

I might if I could read the entire article without having to subscribe....

By ANDY PASZTOR

Reducing pilot fatigue is a top priority for U.S. airline regulators. But new rules are being delayed by disagreements within the Obama administration over whether the anticipated safety improvements would justify the cost to airlines.
When U.S. Federal Aviation Administration chief Randy Babbitt last summer launched a drive to update decades-old rules covering how many hours a day U.S. airline pilots can fly or remain on duty, the agency hoped to release draft regulations by early 2010.
That date later slipped by several months, but Mr. Babbitt and Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood continued to say that keeping sleepy pilots away from the controls was essential. With Congress also prodding the FAA to move quickly, they talked about expedited White House review of regulatory changes.
Now, according to industry and government officials, the proposed changes are snagged by a dispute between the FAA and the White House Office of Management and Budget.
Budget officials have informally told the FAA that the proposal's projected cost to airlines wasn't justified by the anticipated safety benefits, according to people familiar with the details. As a result, there could be further delays in agreeing on a package.
The FAA's proposals could cost carriers billions of extra dollars through the next decade. But if the agency scales back the proposal to reduce likely costs, FAA and outside experts fear it would undercut basic safety goals. If that happens, some pilots' unions have threatened to oppose the entire package.
The tussle already has added to the friction between aviation regulators and officials at the budget office. Unless high-level administration officials break the logjam, people familiar with the details said, public release of the proposed rules could be delayed for months.
The FAA continues to push for speedy action. But according to the latest projected timetable released by the Department of Transportation, it could take until fall to issue a draft rule. Fielding public comments could take months longer.
An FAA spokeswoman said Wednesday that the proposed rules "are in administration coordination," but she declined to elaborate. "This is a complex issue and we want this done right," she said.
Department of Transportation officials also have declined to provide details about the timetable. A spokesman for the budget office said it hadn't yet received a formal request for review and "we don't have a specific time frame." The spokesman declined to comment on discussions that have taken place with regulators.
The FAA wants to jettison outdated rules that set uniform limits on pilot work schedules, replacing them with more flexible rules based on scientific studies about what causes fatigue.
Labor and management representatives agreed on the broad outlines of such an approach last September, giving the FAA more confidence that it could come up with a package that had a good chance of gaining final approval.
The proposals seek to limit flight hours and the length of duty days based on the time of day, internal body clocks of pilots and how many takeoffs and landings they are scheduled to perform in a 24-hour period.
Such changes, intended to bring U.S. requirements more in line with European cockpit-fatigue rules, would be particularly costly for commuter airlines. Those carriers fly shorter routes and tend to give pilots more grueling schedules, with multiple takeoffs and landings each day.
The dispute over cockpit-fatigue rules is part of a broader debate over how to measure prospective safety improvements when U.S. commercial aviation already is so safe that there aren't any fatal accidents in some years.
FAA regulators consider cockpit fatigue one of the most pressing safety hazards and point to a long list of harrowing incidents and accidents in which fatigue was a significant factor. In recent years, lawmakers, federal investigators and outside safety experts have intensified their calls for new fatigue regulations. Under the FAA's proposals, cargo and charter operations also would face tighter restrictions on pilot shifts.
Mr. Babbitt has championed efforts for change in the wake of the February 2009 crash of a Colgan Air turboprop near Buffalo, N.Y., that killed 50 people. Both pilots had limited sleep the night before the crash.
Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected]

 

[gutshotdraw]

Thank you sir...

 

[CheapFlyer]

If anyone was seriously concerned about pilots being tired, then reduced rest should be made illegal immediately. Also, scratch out the "transportation local in nature is considered rest". This should be done NOW. Worry about the other stuff later.

-CF

 

[gutshotdraw]

I kind of like a very simple minimum of 10 hours rest commencing 1 hour after block in and ending 1 hour prior to scheduled takeoff. If the duty day exceeds 12 hours, the minimum is 1 hour rest per previous day hour of duty. It's about the rest period, not the work period.

 

[NAAPilot]

Hard to say if this will ever be resolved adequately. It is obvious that the politicians and airline management are more interested in "cost" than safety. Any airline that claims that saftey is their number 1 priority is full of sh*t. Otherwise this fatigue issue would have been resolved years ago when crew fatigue was first issued as a cause of an accident. Here we are, decades later with the same outdated and ineffective rules and the same nefarious management teams, pushing us so as not to impact their completion factor. I had high hopes for a real overhaul of the system, but the above report shows that we are seemingly stuck with the same old same old.

 

[snow-back]

Devil's Advocate: What about commuting over 3 time zones or taking connecting flights, then going to work? Does this pose a lesser, greater or equal risk as stand-ups, red-eyes, reduced rest, etc? Who's responsibility is it? What if the FAA was ever to count commuting immediately before a duty period part of duty with the onus on the pilots to comply? How do you suspect ALPA would react?

Just pondering some possibilities.

 

[Captain X]

Let's see, I thought this administration was supposed to be "labor-friendly."

And here they taking the side of big business.

Sounds familiar.

Same whore. Different party name.



FAA...OMB...ALPA...SOS...LOL

 

[densoo]

Such changes, intended to bring U.S. requirements more in line with European cockpit-fatigue rules, would be particularly costly for commuter airlines.

Ah, there's the rub. Raise the costs of the commuter airline and the labor cost advantage of the commuter airline goes away.

 

[ASA Captain]

I assume this is headed for the legal language blender. Vague language that looks as if it does something but will not change rest rules. If we didn't have the Whitlow 16 hour "interpretation" we would still be pushing the limits on duty day and aiming for more accidents.

To fix the problem would take a certain fortitude the FAA doesn't have and cooperation from the airlines they won't get. There is no justified argument from the airlines. They will all have to follow the same rules so it will cost the same to each competitor. The only justification they have is profit margin and wall street pressure. Raise your ticket prices or more people will die. Plain as day.

 

[Skippy]

isnt this delay number 3 now GMAFB!

 

[cessnapilot]

It wouldn’t hurt to fill out the email form of your representative also…

http://www.house.gov/zip/ZIP2Rep.html

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=state&Sort=ASC

 

[MILPILOT17]

Hard to say if this will ever be resolved adequately. It is obvious that the politicians and airline management are more interested in "cost" than safety. Any airline that claims that saftey is their number 1 priority is full of sh*t. Otherwise this fatigue issue would have been resolved years ago when crew fatigue was first issued as a cause of an accident. Here we are, decades later with the same outdated and ineffective rules and the same nefarious management teams, pushing us so as not to impact their completion factor. I had high hopes for a real overhaul of the system, but the above report shows that we are seemingly stuck with the same old same old.

You say that "any" airline that says safety is #1 is full of sh!t? Question for you; do you get paid if you call in fatigued? At my airline we do so I believe safety is #1 at least where I work.

 

[Soverytired]

Let's see, I thought this administration was supposed to be "labor-friendly."

And here they taking the side of big business.


FAA...OMB...ALPA...SOS...LOL

"Thug" labor (SEIU), yes.

"Professional" labor (ALPA), no. . .unless you're a government union; teacher, firefighters, etc.

Besides, pilots may donate millions to the dude and his party through their unions, but they vote in large numbers for (R). Ignoring ALPA isn't exactly going to cost him jack squat, and he knows it. Kinda like ignoring certain minority groups, who vote en masse for (D) no matter what.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Obama, as well as all the other Republicans and Democrats are VERY labour friendly, when they are trying to get you to vote for them. Once the election is over, they are also labour friendly, until it gets in the way of any money!

cliff
LAS

 

[jtf]

So I guess we're just going to have to hope for another disaster soon before they finalize watered-down rules if we want the government to get enough pressure to move beyond the $. I guess the poor suckers who have to ride around on the airlines just aint worth that much overall if we are willing to justify not paying for safety. I know the government officials who make make the rules don't fly on the airlines so I guess they don't care.

 

[Volasl]

You say that "any" airline that says safety is #1 is full of sh!t? Question for you; do you get paid if you call in fatigued? At my airline we do so I believe safety is #1 at least where I work.

Seriously, that is your argument? Im guessing you are Southwest and went there straight from the military thus bypassing a regional. Regional pilots have been threatened for years with their jobs for fatigue or mx issues.

Having been at a major myself, is it any different really? Hmmm lets just MEL this ....Hmmm dont have time to fix that today....45 min reserve is plenty of fuel into ORD....Fines for safety at virtually every airline including yours.

So while you may get paid for calling in fatigued im sure you will have to fill out a form and speak to the chief pilot. This will be in your record also. Is this intimidation or do they really care about safety?

 

[MILPILOT17]

Seriously, that is your argument? Im guessing you are Southwest and went there straight from the military thus bypassing a regional. Regional pilots have been threatened for years with their jobs for fatigue or mx issues.

Having been at a major myself, is it any different really? Hmmm lets just MEL this ....Hmmm dont have time to fix that today....45 min reserve is plenty of fuel into ORD....Fines for safety at virtually every airline including yours.

So while you may get paid for calling in fatigued im sure you will have to fill out a form and speak to the chief pilot. This will be in your record also. Is this intimidation or do they really care about safety?

Grow a pair and stop crying like a little girl! Do the right thing and don't worry about who's going to question you. If you don't like the way you're treated by your company then go find another job. Bottom line, don't be a PU$$Y! Oh, and yes safety is #1.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Grow a pair and stop crying like a little girl! Do the right thing and don't worry about who's going to question you. If you don't like the way you're treated by your company then go find another job. Bottom line, don't be a PU$$Y! Oh, and yes safety is #1.

You might be Capt. America, but try telling that to a new regional FO, on reserve, on probation, on the phone with sked or the CP.

I did it, but I've flown with many who wouldn't.