New Alaska Negotiations Thread

[QCappy]

Lets say those numbers are accurate. That's 16% up front going back to a May 05 DOS.

The farthest it can go back is to a May 07 DOS. The Kasher reaming was a two year deal from May 05.

 

[Going2Baja]

Easy now team....I have the utmost respect for our MEC Chair and I think the negotiating committee are doing an ok job. What I'm spewing about is some of the recent decisions (or lack there of) by our MEC (not one man.)

In recent weeks it seems that we are loosing track of the MEC main job - to protect it's dues paying members and at the SAME time to negotiate the best contract for the ENTIRE pilot group.

Recently we've seen furloughs while members are flying 85 hour lines & VSA.

We've seen the company flatly deny paid moves to displaces pilots unless pilots move their entire households.

And now (yesterday) we are seeing a complete disregard for our seniority system. While I am all for retaining as many pilots on the payroll as possible - I think it is a very slippery slope when the MEC allows pilots to stay in base out of seniority.

I too have been furloughed before for over 5 years and I know it's not an easy thing to process. But as turbodriver says - "Don't sign a crappy contact just to get me back early. That's my vote. I want something good to come back to."

Mookie - I came here because I thought this was a strong and upward moving company. Since I've been here my class has gone nowhere but backwards - and there's no end in sight. Yes I'm glad I'm not wearing a Johny Cash outfit flying for 2/3'rds wage (I never would have.) But I think we deserve a lot more than 9%. I'm thinking 40% + retro. This may be a vast improvement from skyw's non-union atmosphere but still nowhere close to the hardball ALPA of NWA. Put down your cup of koolaid Mook and dig those heels in & see what's happening.

That's it for now friends, colleagues, & brothers....Time to get some rest before the big drive up the coast. Can't wait for the $0.20 a mile per the AAA for reimbursement. (Insert sarcasm here.)

Baja Out.

 

[Mookie]

Baja,

with all undue respect, if you think I'm drinking koolaid, then you have no goddamn idea what you are talking about, or have any idea about me....but judging by your statement above, I guess that kind of confirms it.

Mookie

 

[Fubijaakr]

25.E.5, 23.A.1 and 23.A.3 for starters

Sorry, Crunk, but tossing out a bunch of numbers like you know what you're talking about without expanding on them is pretty useless.

For example, 25.E.5 does not exist.

23.A.1:

1. Reduce Bid Blocks: In the event the Company furloughs pilots,
the Company and the MEC shall meet and establish a program for reducing the number of hours in the bid blocks to prevent the furlough.

I don't know what bid package you're looking at, but the line values in SEA have dropped to 75-77 hours. Plus the part time line program was agreed to and implemented. That pretty much satisfies 23.A.1.

23.A.3:

Details of: When a furlough is scheduled the Company shall post a notice at all pilot bases advising of the effective date of the furlough, anticipated length of the furlough, and the number of pilots to be furloughed. As soon as possible after the posting of the notice, the Company shall notify each of the affected pilots, by certified mail, return receipt requested, at his home address, of the actual date of his furlough.

For the first group of furloughs, Pilot Bid 2009-02 would seem to cover all the bases required by Sec. 23.A.3.

So, what's the big deal?
​

 

[msmb]

Easy now team....I have the utmost respect for our MEC Chair and I think the negotiating committee are doing an ok job. What I'm spewing about is some of the recent decisions (or lack there of) by our MEC (not one man.)

In recent weeks it seems that we are loosing track of the MEC main job - to protect it's dues paying members and at the SAME time to negotiate the best contract for the ENTIRE pilot group.

Recently we've seen furloughs while members are flying 85 hour lines & VSA.

We've seen the company flatly deny paid moves to displaces pilots unless pilots move their entire households.

And now (yesterday) we are seeing a complete disregard for our seniority system. While I am all for retaining as many pilots on the payroll as possible - I think it is a very slippery slope when the MEC allows pilots to stay in base out of seniority.

I too have been furloughed before for over 5 years and I know it's not an easy thing to process. But as turbodriver says - "Don't sign a crappy contact just to get me back early. That's my vote. I want something good to come back to."

Mookie - I came here because I thought this was a strong and upward moving company. Since I've been here my class has gone nowhere but backwards - and there's no end in sight. Yes I'm glad I'm not wearing a Johny Cash outfit flying for 2/3'rds wage (I never would have.) But I think we deserve a lot more than 9%. I'm thinking 40% + retro. This may be a vast improvement from skyw's non-union atmosphere but still nowhere close to the hardball ALPA of NWA. Put down your cup of koolaid Mook and dig those heels in & see what's happening.

That's it for now friends, colleagues, & brothers....Time to get some rest before the big drive up the coast. Can't wait for the $0.20 a mile per the AAA for reimbursement. (Insert sarcasm here.)

Baja Out.

Obviously emotions are running extremely high these days. It's not the time to be bashing because that won't get anyone anywhere. All that does is drive us apart which is exactly what Bill A. wants. However, I do agree 100% with baja's statement about pilots flying 85 hours and picking up VSA. Picking up VSA is COMPLETELY selfish when there are pilots on the street. There isn't any excuse for doing that. For the pilots building lines up to 85 hours during 1st/2nd step, that doesn't help either. That takes away trips to build open fly lines which puts more people on reserve which, in turn, will keep more people on the street. There may be a few exceptions as far as people needing the 85 hours to support a family due to whatever circumstances. But for the most part, it's just greed when we have pilots on the street unable to pay bills. My opinion, which we all have, is that NO ONE should be picking up VSA during negotiations, period. Also, no one should be building up their lines from open time when we have pilots on the street-with a few exceptions. That's just my 2 cents. By the way, i'm the wife of a pilot on the outside looking in on what is a crappy situation for everyone.

 

[AKMD80GUY]

The farthest it can go back is to a May 07 DOS. The Kasher reaming was a two year deal from May 05.

You're absolutly right. I just have May 05 stuck on the brain.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If used properly, VSA can be one of our strongest negotiating tools. As I recall, the Delta pilots AS A GROUP refused all "overtime" flying and Delta gave them a contract pretty quickly.

I agree 100%. No one should be flying VSA past a contract amendable date OR while there are pilots on furlough.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Sorry, Crunk, but tossing out a bunch of numbers like you know what you're talking about without expanding on them is pretty useless.

I'm not an expert at the contract. And I'm learning one that is relatively new to me.

For example, 25.E.5 does not exist.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry I missed that. I meant 24.E.5. This deals with the bidding process, of course. In a few days, we will have pilots in ANC that were displaced from SEA. The 18 or so guys that thankfully weren't furloughed are staying put, wherever they are. The positions are not being awarded in order of seniority.

23.A.1:

1. Reduce Bid Blocks: In the event the Company furloughs pilots,
the Company and the MEC shall meet and establish a program for reducing the number of hours in the bid blocks to prevent the furlough.

I don't know what bid package you're looking at, but the line values in SEA have dropped to 75-77 hours. Plus the part time line program was agreed to and implemented. That pretty much satisfies 23.A.1.​

The last few months, the lines in ANC have been closer to 79 hours. For March, ANC is 78.51, LAX is 78.34, SEA is at 77.64. I was under the impression that the company never met with the union before furloughing the first group.

23.A.3:

Details of: When a furlough is scheduled the Company shall post a notice at all pilot bases advising of the effective date of the furlough, anticipated length of the furlough, and the number of pilots to be furloughed. As soon as possible after the posting of the notice, the Company shall notify each of the affected pilots, by certified mail, return receipt requested, at his home address, of the actual date of his furlough.

For the first group of furloughs, Pilot Bid 2009-02 would seem to cover all the bases required by Sec. 23.A.3.

I'm pretty sure there is a greivance on the length of the furlough not being posted. Some of the furloughees are finding prospective employers won't give you a shot if you can't tell them how long you'll be there.

So, what's the big deal?

I thought you were getting displaced? I'd think you'd be a bit upset if someone junior to you was holding your spot.

Good luck to you, whichever base you end up in.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I'm not an expert at the contract. And I'm learning one that is relatively new to me.

Of course you're not. None of us are.

I'm pretty sure there is a greivance on the length of the furlough not being posted. Some of the furloughees are finding prospective employers won't give you a shot if you can't tell them how long you'll be there.

But it is posted. Indefinite. Its on bid 2009-2.

Here's my suggestion. You really should pick up the phone and call the Contract Compliance guys. They can and will explain all this stuff to you. Then you can get some facts and not have to rely on anonymous webboards and "opinions" of people who have an axe to grind.

Give them a call. You'd be surprised how many guys formulate and postulate "opinions" and how few calls the guys with the answers in the office get.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Give them a call. You'd be surprised how many guys formulate and postulate "opinions" and how few calls the guys with the answers in the office get.

Yep, I hear you. I have spoken with a few union people and what it seems to me is there are bigger fish to fry right now.

Hopefully those fish with be tasty.

 

[AZFr8tPilot]

Using "Indefinite" as a length of estimated furlough is not an acceptable option in my opinion. For those of us on the street, it makes it difficult to plan when the time length is that indeterminate. I own and run a side business in the medical field (now my primary business). Trying to write business contracts that I know I can follow through on (without using a 30 day out clause) is challenging without having more information. "Indefinite" won't work in the contracts that I am involved with and is less than professional.

 

[Old School 737]

Pilot to pilot guy in crew room said he heard that the last thing to finish up in contract talks is the retirement section. Take it for what its worth. I hope he is right.

 

[turbodriver]

I wonder....

Can furloughees vote on a TA???

 

[becket]

Using "Indefinite" as a length of estimated furlough is not an acceptable option in my opinion. For those of us on the street, it makes it difficult to plan when the time length is that indeterminate. I own and run a side business in the medical field (now my primary business). Trying to write business contracts that I know I can follow through on (without using a 30 day out clause) is challenging without having more information. "Indefinite" won't work in the contracts that I am involved with and is less than professional.

what if Alaska was the secondary income and you concentrated on the med thing from here on out? That way, you'll have some control. You'll NEVER change the airline...use them for all you can. That's how they roll...

 

[Going2Baja]

I wonder....

Can furloughees vote on a TA???

My understanding is No. You are no longer an employee, but a person with recall rights to your previous position. Don't worry - I have your back and won't yes on anything without all the t's crossed and the i's dotted!

Baja.