New Airtran Jetconnect?WTF

[DairyAir]

Well so there you have it. The big announcement, more of our jobs being outsourced. Well thats just peachy. Didn't they try this once before? Anyone have any details on the contract etc. I don't know about anyone else but I'm ready to strike, I just don't see the cost benefit. If it is just to gain some market share until we can put our own aircraft on the routes so be it but this is not the big announcement I was hoping for.

DA

 

[no1pilot2000]

Air Wisconsin...

Did some outsourcing for Air Tran using CRJ's years ago. I remember the RJ's were in AIr Tran colors too. I didn't last long.

 

[Networ-King]

Yeah that was Air Willy out of Atlanta. Who are they going to get to do the "feed".... Republic 190's???? Now that would be classic....

Net

 

[Whine Lover]

" I don't know about anyone else but I'm ready to strike, I just don't see the cost benefit."

They have your "cost benefit right HERE my Friend."

They pay Idiots to work for less than you.

Nuff said?

Done.

Love,

YKMKR

 

[amcnd]

" I don't know about anyone else but I'm ready to strike, I just don't see the cost benefit."

They have your "cost benefit right HERE my Friend."

They pay Idiots to work for less than you.

Nuff said?

Done.

Love,

YKMKR

What?? SkyWest pays for everyting, and you get connecting passengers.. sounds like a win-win for everyone!!

 

[dh82dvr]

Sounds like cr@p. They can go ahead and double our pay in a new contract which wont matter when most of our flying is contracted and we are on the street.

Its lose lose lose all the way around for everyone at AT.

Strike Vote Now!

Nuf Ced

 

[Anonymous2]

These regional airlines have absolutely nowhere else to go (or grow), aside from the business they have now. No more money to make and a whole lot of small regional jets to spare. SkyWest and other regional carriers are on the prowl for business, and it may be at any cost. Its not up to the regionals, its up to each and everyone of you mainliners to protect yourselves now. Stop barking at regional pilots to set "industry leading contracts" and talk to your peers and or unions and make some plans now (or do whatever you possibly can). In my opinion, the key is to get on some common ground with your management asap. Both regional and your own mainline management won't be "waiting for your input" when expansion/growth decisions are made. Making an effort now, will dictate whether mainline grows, or the regional affiliate grows. You may not be able to change the past, but at least do whatever you can to dictate your future(s).

You all understand where I'm coming from with this?

 

[no1pilot2000]

Seems like Air Tran management is too busy trying to make everyone else happy except their pilots.

 

[ron burgundy]

This just in....Fcku them..Fcku you...Fcku ME! So what..who cares..it's all sthi and will end anyway!

 

[relief tube]

If it is just to gain some market share until we can put our own aircraft on the routes so be it but.........

DA

are you serious. how long have you been in this industry? how do you define niave?

 

[AWACoff]

Stop barking at regional pilots to set "industry leading contracts"

You all understand where I'm coming from with this?

I have no idea where you are coming from. Why in the world would a mainline pilot be "barking at" regional pilots to set an industry leading contract? It can directly benefit the mainline carrier's bottom line to have cheap feed (assuming they don't crash/embarrass the brand/etc.). There is no benefit to having a feeder with an "industry leading contract". If you have any doubt, look at how well Pinnacle performs for their partners yet they are nowhere near industry leading.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

There is no definition.

 

[1.3XVso]

I have no idea where you are coming from. Why in the world would a mainline pilot be "barking at" regional pilots to set an industry leading contract? It can directly benefit the mainline carrier's bottom line to have cheap feed (assuming they don't crash/embarrass the brand/etc.). There is no benefit to having a feeder with an "industry leading contract". If you have any doubt, look at how well Pinnacle performs for their partners yet they are nowhere near industry leading.

I kick myself in the narss knowing that we're the laughing stock in the industry yet were in the high percentile for performance.

 

[TV9Driver]

when i was at COEX in the late '90s, we were the launch customer for the emb145. Continental said that they were going to be used to build small markets so that the mainline aircraft could take over once the market matured. Within 6 months my commute went from 4 737/MD80's a day to 3 RJ's...... Sound familiar?

I think a STRIKE VOTE is in order....

 

[MINIME]

Given the time that you guys have been in negotiations, the NC along with all the lawyers you can muster, should be emphatically appealing to the NMB for help. They should be asking for hyper mediation and up to and including a release. I don't know that any other U.S. airline has gone this long into negotiations. With Skywest in the picture the stakes just went up.

The type of management and their styles should be highlighted to help your case. The MEC needs to get with it before the train leaves the station. Once the first 70 seat airplane arrives, it's all downhill from there. I believe that by then you will be too late. At that point management may find a loophole to replace 717s with RJs. Or at the very least, a good portion of them.

Just remember, the same advice was given to the Midwest guys. To their demise, their MEC stood by and watched it all happen. Hoeksema came out smelling like roses. He'll never have to work another day in his life, what does he care. I think more could have been done. If your pilots aren't involved and on the MEC's butt, it's time to start. Your career may depend on it.

 

[ATLboeing]

I'd like to know how the Skywest pilots feel about the possibility that we may end up on strike and them being told to fly struck work...and if they would, being non-union.
Nothing against the pilots of Skywest at this point, I know it was our management that made this decision, but I'm just curious how a non-union group would handle that situation.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'd like to know how the Skywest pilots feel about the possibility that we may end up on strike and them being told to fly struck work...and if they would, being non-union.
Nothing against the pilots of Skywest at this point, I know it was our management that made this decision, but I'm just curious how a non-union group would handle that situation.

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

 

[samballs]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Alpa has nothing left to blow

 

[Lear70]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Ummm, yes,,, they do.

Depending on how the striking carrier defines "struck work" and ALPA National sends the message on what the request of that struck work will be.

Sometimes they don't, sometimes they do. Depends on the carrier and the politics in motion at the time.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

skywest is non union so it does not matter.

 

[jdubya]

Anon is right, but the economics are gone with the rj's. I would not be too concerned with this. Both companies are scrambling for income, but if the rj's do show up it won't last long imo. You'll see a lot of posts on here because regional guys will grab ahold of anything that smells of something better for them.....not gonna happen.

 

[planejockey]

What?? SkyWest pays for everyting, and you get connecting passengers.. sounds like a win-win for everyone!!

People like you make me sick. Thanks for killing everyone's future as*hole.

 

[PCL_128]

Given the time that you guys have been in negotiations, the NC along with all the lawyers you can muster, should be emphatically appealing to the NMB for help. They should be asking for hyper mediation and up to and including a release. I don't know that any other U.S. airline has gone this long into negotiations. With Skywest in the picture the stakes just went up.

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it. Instead, what the NMB will do is start making negotiations a pain in the ass. For example, negotiations next week for AirTran will be in Washington, DC instead of in Atlanta or Orlando where it is convenient for the company. If things continue to not move, the NMB can order negotiations to take place in Seattle. Or Anchorage. Or Hong Kong, for that matter. The point is that they can make things a huge pain in the ass, which is designed to spur the parties to reach agreement on the smaller items. After that is done, then they can release you, because most of the items are closed out and the remaining items might be able to get settled during super-mediation during the cooling off period, which is what they really want. When they give you a release, they don't want a work stoppage, they want a deal. They can't get a deal from a release if there are too many open issues on the table to finish out in that 30-day cooling off period.

 

[andyd]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Last time I checked CMR doesn't sell tickets so they weren't "comair" passengers, they were DAL passengers and we are free to re-route them as we see fit on any of our contracted labor or on our own equipment.

 

[pdub20s]

Given the time that you guys have been in negotiations, the NC along with all the lawyers you can muster, should be emphatically appealing to the NMB for help. They should be asking for hyper mediation and up to and including a release. I don't know that any other U.S. airline has gone this long into negotiations. With Skywest in the picture the stakes just went up.

The type of management and their styles should be highlighted to help your case. The MEC needs to get with it before the train leaves the station. Once the first 70 seat airplane arrives, it's all downhill from there. I believe that by then you will be too late. At that point management may find a loophole to replace 717s with RJs. Or at the very least, a good portion of them.

Just remember, the same advice was given to the Midwest guys. To their demise, their MEC stood by and watched it all happen. Hoeksema came out smelling like roses. He'll never have to work another day in his life, what does he care. I think more could have been done. If your pilots aren't involved and on the MEC's butt, it's time to start. Your career may depend on it.

Very well put. What went on over at Midwest was the first thing that came to mind. You AT pilots better come out swinging. All eyes are on you guys.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

During the CMR strike, CMR passengers were rerouted on DAL, ASA, ACA, and other carriers...Some of CMR's jets were even flown by ASA....ALPA has already blown that one....Doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not they are union...Union carriers don't honor each other's picket lines.....

Cost of you paying for your job at ASA= $8500
Price of you forming a new screen name on FI = $10

Listening to you give advice about flying struck work.......PRICELESS!

This from a guy who sued to try to steal flying.

 

[MINIME]

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it.

Thanks for the clarification PCL.

However some of this is concerning. Using your stated patterns by which the NMB works, if I was a CEO I could keep you in negotiations and without a contract till kingdom come. All I have to do is drag my feet as long as I can. If I stall, slow down negotiation dates, never agree to anything, I'd know that you would not be able to strike. Because you have to meet that criteria of having most items TAd before a release.

This may be so. I believe however, that a good case from a MEC and its lawyers could prove to the NMB, that this particular negotiation cycle, against this particular management, may not fall under normal practices set by other airlines. This management may actively be trying to use the system of stalling to its advantage and thus not negotiating in good faith. Add to that, the appearance of them trying to outsource your flying while you're distracted in negotiations. This type of appeal may stand a chance of having the NMB's attention.

What you say?

 

[ATLboeing]

If they want to go that route (drag their feet even longer with no progress) then I hope the mediator tells them, "OK, if significant progress isn't made in the next session, we will meet next week at a picnic table in Bagdad."

 

[maxblast72]

I'd like to know how the Skywest pilots feel about the possibility that we may end up on strike and them being told to fly struck work...and if they would, being non-union.
Nothing against the pilots of Skywest at this point, I know it was our management that made this decision, but I'm just curious how a non-union group would handle that situation.

Just a little back of the envelope calcuating, but Airtran flies around 6 billion ASMs a quarter. If Skywest could get 11 hrs a day utilization, it would take around 300 CRJ-200s to replace all the Airtran aircraft. Not to mention, Skywest better get hustling putting in some aux tanks for the west coast/Caribbean flying.

Don't worry guys, a strike will shut down Airtran Airways real fast. Time to get serious about convincing management we will go on strike. When SPC says jump, guys need to jump. Management hates the bad publicy from the events planned by our SPC.

 

[PCL_128]

Several airlines have gone longer in negotiations, one of them is longer right now, in fact, but that's beside the point. The real point is that the NMB is not going to release us right now. We have only 9 sections TA'd, with dozens upon dozens of open issues in the remaining sections. The NMB won't release you under those circumstances, and will actually get mad if you request a release when you know you stand no chance of getting it.

Thanks for the clarification PCL.

However some of this is concerning. Using your stated patterns by which the NMB works, if I was a CEO I could keep you in negotiations and without a contract till kingdom come. All I have to do is drag my feet as long as I can. If I stall, slow down negotiation dates, never agree to anything, I'd know that you would not be able to strike. Because you have to meet that criteria of having most items TAd before a release.

This may be so. I believe however, that a good case from a MEC and its lawyers could prove to the NMB, that this particular negotiation cycle, against this particular management, may not fall under normal practices set by other airlines. This management may actively be trying to use the system of stalling to its advantage and thus not negotiating in good faith. Add to that, the appearance of them trying to outsource your flying while you're distracted in negotiations. This type of appeal may stand a chance of having the NMB's attention.

What you say?

This is the power that the NMB has to make things miserable for managements that don't want to bargain in good faith:

If they want to go that route (drag their feet even longer with no progress) then I hope the mediator tells them, "OK, if significant progress isn't made in the next session, we will meet next week at a picnic table in Bagdad."

It only takes a few weeks of meetings in Anchorage for a management team to start moving on the smaller items.