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NetJets Working on CASS Approval?

PCL_128

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Nov 21, 2002
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Ok. Forget the stinky lav.

Ever check the seat back pouches after even one leg? Ever look at all the dried face butter on the windows that won't even scrape off? The crusted carpet? Guessing the lunch 4 other passengers had on the tray table in front of me is always a favorite game too.

I deadhead in the back of our planes all the time, and I used to commute on Delta, NWA, and AirTran to DTW for years. What you're describing is a rarity, not the norm. Are the planes completely spotless like I'm sure you have to keep your planes for the rich a$$holes that you fly around? Of course not. Our planes are flying 12 hours a day with 45 minutes turns. Keeping them spotless is impossible. But in general, they're in pretty decent shape.
 

JungleJett

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rich a$$holes

Why are you angry man? You do not know our owners. You do know our OWNER though. He is richest man on the planet and has given more to charity than you are worth. He also rides on us. He is one helluva guy and you would be proud to have him associated with your "airline".

You also hav zero ideal on how we operate. ZERO..yet you come on here and talk $hit about like you do. Why? I know you are being protective of your product and I appreciate that. But you know what, I was too until I saw the declining morale, the poor attitudes and the whole environment give up on passengers and I could no longer be a part of it. I did what I could..but to no avail. So, I left and came here. I like it here. We offer a great product that people want and I am take pride in how our owners react. I take pride in being part of a TEAM of employees dedicated to that service. It is not just me but thousands of other employees...as you said yourself, I am just one cog in the machine. But this cog is the cog the owners see 99.9% of the time and it is up to me and my crew to make sure that they stay happy and get what they pay for. It really is THAT simple. Do I worker harder than you? Yes. Do I wipe down the lav..yup. Do I load bags..sure. But what do I get for all that hardwork some may ask. I work for a company who respects me as a professional and as a person. I work for a company that compensates me well. I am fed very well and stay in some of the nicest hotels available. I keep all the benefits of my company travel which helps me and my family save thousands of dollars a year in travel cost. I sleep well with more than 8 hours of "rest". I fly a brand new airplane. Nearly everything I need to do my job is paid for...uniforms, medicals, passports...you name it. More importantly, I am home with my family more. I do not have the headaches of commuting anymore..and probably never will. I can move where ever I want..and still not be a commuter. I will never have to beg for a JS again or hope the flight is not full. I will never had to sit in a $hithole crewroom with a bunch of whining and depressed people. I will never have to spend two hours do a Jepp revision. Mine are much easier. I will fly to way more places and get to meet interesting people (you all them rich a$$holes). I can avoid places like EWR, CLE, IAH, DTW, ORD....and hit the smaller fields...after doing an NDB approach to mins. I can be on the beach in the winter or Alaska in the summer...or vice-versa. I just never know. If there is an empty airplane going somewhere, my family can travel on it..in style. Lastly, I am flying with pilots who enjoy what they do..again. Sure we have some misfits, every place does...but for the most part, we are a happy bunch who are proud of the company we work for and very proud of the job we do. I look forward to flying..again. Like I said before, it has been a long time and it has taken awhile to get back to that point. Flying for the airlines really took the wind from my rudder.

Listen dude...you know as well as anyone else here that service in the airlines has gone down in the past decade. It has...simple fact. It is not one persons fault...it is everyones fault. It is yours, the rampers, the dispatchers, scheduling, management, the unions, FA's, gate agents...ect. There are FACTS to prove this. The traveling public's comments prove it. It is not just us...it is everyone. And you fail to recognize that and are personally not willing to do a damn thing about it. You have said so yourself. So, just because a pilot says the service sucks, instead of looking at the pilot, look at the service and see if he is right. If he is wrong, prove him wrong. If he is right, correct the problem and quit giving him/her ammo. Take pride in what you do and who you work for and be part of the solution and not just throw up your hand and say "It's not my job!"

I do not like flying on the airlines and avoid it in personal travel as much as I can. I saw the inner workings and there is simply no excuse for what is happening today...none. Do I take you personally responsible, I do. You are that cog in the overall machine and you need to do better. You need to make your co-workers do better. You need to see a problem for what it is and fix it or figure out a way to fix it. If you do not, then you remain part of the problem and are as responsible for the complaints as any other cog in the machine. Next time you go fly, take out one one of the blades on your fan. Then start the engine and watch your vibes. Eventually it will worsen and then they whole engine (machine) comes apart. Get the point?

I am now officially back on topic.
 

PCL_128

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Why are you angry man? You do not know our owners. You do know our OWNER though. He is richest man on the planet and has given more to charity than you are worth. He also rides on us. He is one helluva guy and you would be proud to have him associated with your "airline".

No argument there. I'm a big fan of the Oracle of Omaha. He's one of the few people in the business world that actually has morals and ethics.

You also hav zero ideal on how we operate. ZERO..yet you come on here and talk $hit about like you do. Why? yada, yada, yada

I'm not "talking $hit" about your operation or your product. I'm sure your product is amazing, as well it should be since it's geared towards the rich that are paying a super-premium for it. What I'm tried of is your constant attacks on the airlines. You expect a top-tier product when we simply aren't capable of providing it with the revenue that we receive. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't get that.
 

acaTerry

SAPM
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Dec 4, 2001
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Puh-lease. Your "mission"? I don't even hear you guys out flying when the wx is bad. You guys might as well be VFR only.

Funny. I just flew an NDB approach, full procedure with a PT to circling, at mins, to an airport I've never been to. Doesn't sound like VFR to me.
Turn up your radio...you'll hear us all the time...if you turn off the iPod...
 

glasspilot

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I get it. The flying public has voted very strong that what they want is cheap tickets. That is more important than shinny interiors, clean lavs, backup aircraft, great service, inflight food, clean windows, empty seat back pockets and the like.

I get it and am employed because of it.
 

CA1900

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What I'm tried of is your constant attacks on the airlines. You expect a top-tier product when we simply aren't capable of providing it with the revenue that we receive. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't get that.

Because we're not expecting "top-tier," at least by any definition I'm familiar with.

Look, whether I book a $400-a-night hotel room in a Hilton resort or a $39 Super 8 (and I've done both while working here), there are certain things I expect: Clean towels, clean toilet, clean sheets, the mirror and windows free of snot, and the air conditioning working. That's the basic level of service expected in any American hotel, and if it's not provided, I'm going to take issue with it.


What we're trying to explain to you, and for the life of me I can't figure out why you don't get it, is that the airlines are cutting so many corners that they're no longer providing the equivalent of even the Super 8.

Whether I pay $1600 or $99 for a ticket, I expect my seat area to be free of human mucus products, my seat pocket to be free of soiled diapers and other disgusting items, and the toilet facilities to be sanitary.

My last AirTran flight was from Orlando to Kansas City a couple of months ago, and cost us about $350. My window seat had a diaper in the bottom of the seat pocket, dried snot and forehead grease on my window, old gum all over the seatbelt, and the lav smelled like a port-a-potty. If you guys can't spare the manpower (or the cash to buy some) to take care of those issues, then I'm sorry, but your business plan is not viable.
 
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JungleJett

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I'm not "talking $hit" about your operation or your product. I'm sure your product is amazing, as well it should be since it's geared towards the rich that are paying a super-premium for it. What I'm tried of is your constant attacks on the airlines. You expect a top-tier product when we simply aren't capable of providing it with the revenue that we receive. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't get that.

I am not asking for NJA quality service. I am simply asking for some kind of service. No one on here has said anything about NJA quality service, in fact, there is no way you could offer that service and stay in business. We understand that and it has been said countless times. Look back through my post and you will find that I specifically stated that. The point that you are missing is that service at the airlines has gone down substantially in the past few years. I am sure you can admit to that. Some of it is based on revenue but a lot of it is based on its employees. Dude...I have been there and done that and have seen with my own two eyes. It cannot be denied. People just don't seem to care anymore and are not willing to go the extra mile anymore. Is it too much to ask for a clean airplane? Clean lav? Decent refreshments? Safe fight? Bags that make it with the pax? Is that really too much to ask? How about a smiling FA? Or a pilot that stands at the door and says thanks? Some do...some don't. I ALWAYS...ALWAYS say thanks for the ride when I airline. If the crew was extrordinary..I mention that to them as well. I did as a Captain at the airlines with my own crew and I ALWAYS thanked folks as the left.

We (your customers) are asking for something that once existed but is rare these days. I would recommend stepping back and looking at the operation as a whole..without bias, if you can. I would sit at the gate and watch the goat roap unfold below me and wonder how the airline stayed in business. Most of the time, it was our parent airline that supplied the ground folks and they could not have been more useless. I have pulled on to the J-line only to have no one there to greet us and 50 rampers pulling their puds...and then they see us and then walk over with the speed of sloth. No motivation...none...zero. We see this in the back as well. Until you understand that...nothing will change and people will continue to dread flying on the airlines. Man...you really need to open your eyes. Things are not good with airline service and the complaints are coming from everywhere. Something needs to change.

Do you ever wonder how SWA does such good business? Part of it is their cost structure..a lot of it is because they seem to enjoy what they do and make it "fun" to fly. It is a bit of a cattle car but I honestly would choose SWA over all the airlines.

Dude..you need to join the awakening.
 

FLYLOW22

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Jun 3, 2004
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TT
I get it. The flying public has voted very strong that what they want is cheap tickets. That is more important than shinny interiors, clean lavs, backup aircraft, great service, inflight food, clean windows, empty seat back pockets and the like.

I get it and am employed because of it.



BING BING BING!!! WINNER!!!
 

fischman

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the rich a$$holes

There is no need for that. I would appreciate it if you didn't call our owners "a$$holes."

For the most part, our owners are polite and overly generous, and a pleasure to work for.
 

waveflyer

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God forbid-
I'm not that forgiving in this economy. If they earned it- great- i have a hard time believing that most of these guys have in fact earned it. They were just able to get workers to work for less than their value enough to be able to buy a share. But they over-raped, took too much $$ out of the economy, and now the whole economy is in big trouble. The growth of fractionals should show all of us how big the gap is between the rich and the poor. And that's not good for anyone.
 

glasspilot

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Now that's a deep post.

I disagree however, there SHOULD be a gap between rich and poor. That's what drives the poor to want to be rich. That's the fuel for the American engine. It's like hot chicks. If they were ALL hot then how would we know who to buy a drink? But I digress...

If there were no gap between rich and poor then we would be the Borg, and I'm not even a Trekkie.
 

Diesel

TEB Hilton resident
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What I'm tried of is your constant attacks on the airlines. You expect a top-tier product when we simply aren't capable of providing it with the revenue that we receive. For the life of me, I can't figure out why you don't get that.

I agree with 1900capt. I ride airtran a couple of times a year because they go to my mother in laws house direct from my house. Every time I have ridden (ahem) first class. The conditions of the plane I've found were deplorable. EVERYTHING was dirty. I don't know is an elephant had sat in my seat last but it was broken and leaning to the left with peanut shells everywhere.

So its not that aren't able to provide the most basic service you don't want to. Companies like virgin, southwest , and jetblue still provide a clean plane even if their price is low.

You don't care you've found the most basic level of service that people won't bitch and you'll set the bar there.

So I'd change the remark to capable and caring to provide the service.

In the fractional business we call this job security.
 

waveflyer

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Now that's a deep post.

I disagree however, there SHOULD be a gap between rich and poor. That's what drives the poor to want to be rich. That's the fuel for the American engine. It's like hot chicks. If they were ALL hot then how would we know who to buy a drink? But I digress...

If there were no gap between rich and poor then we would be the Borg, and I'm not even a Trekkie.


haha- i agree actually- it's the level right now that i don't like-= it's too excessive. Work hard. Get rich. Do it off your own efforts, not corruption. If you run a public company- you shouldn't be able to 'earn' so much that your great-great grandchildren won't have to work and who's biggest challenge will be how to spend half of the trust funds income.

Nobody's that productive. Nobody has 'earned' that much. That's not capitalism- it's fuedalism.
 

QOL_is_great:)

What the?
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Interesting as well.

Remarkably interesting indeed when we harken back to th NJA product prior to your breakthrough contract. Very much a recent thing. I'm pretty sure the NJA pilot group backed that brand into a corner big time. What would you and brokeflyer have said then to someone with your exact sentiments you've now directed at PCL?

Not sure what you're trying to say, but I will tell you to reread my prior postings. I have done the 121 thing and now 91K. Have you done both? If yes, then with which 91K did you fly with?
There is a higher standard to the pax in the back in 91K. It doesn't matter if it was prior to the 2005 contract or the CBA of 2007; we the group provided the level of service the owner deserved. There was never any beef with the owner. Unlike the airline industry; we don't bite the hand that feeds us.
 

QOL_is_great:)

What the?
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You really are a fool!!!

Puh-lease. Your "mission"? I don't even hear you guys out flying when the wx is bad. You're sh&%ing me and everyone else here with that statement, right? Are you saying that you're the only one who flies in wx or only 121?

You guys might as well be VFR only. I've been on reserve for 7 years. So you like to receive as much $$ for as little effort as possible?

I fly 6 different 737s and with as little two hours notice I've been sent to Quito, Ecuador during a volcanic eruption. Half your guys would pi$$ their pants. Did the engines receive the required inspection due to flying during a volcanic eruption? Does this make you a better pilot? If it does then you would've never launched in the stuff I've flown in. Try being shot at during day light, low level, with a broken 20mm gun and staying on-station until ALL American lives were in safe locations. Only one of a long list of things that would've had you sh&% your pants. Sit down and STFU!!!

And I'm certainly nothing special. Every pilot I work with does the same thing.
What? Enter the plane, turn left and sit on your your butt? Lucky for the traveling public there is only a few like you and PCL 128 out here.
 
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PCL_128

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My last AirTran flight was from Orlando to Kansas City a couple of months ago, and cost us about $350. My window seat had a diaper in the bottom of the seat pocket, dried snot and forehead grease on my window, old gum all over the seatbelt, and the lav smelled like a port-a-potty. If you guys can't spare the manpower (or the cash to buy some) to take care of those issues, then I'm sorry, but your business plan is not viable.

I just rode in the back of one of our airplanes this afternoon. We left early, the cabin was clean, the XM radio worked wonderfully, and the lav was clean. In other words, the same condition that I've seen on our airplanes 99% of the time. If you had the above experience, then it's an anomaly and not the norm. I think you guys are bitching about the 1% of the time that things aren't up to your standards, and you're blowing it way out of proportion. Is airline travel a wonderful experience? No, of course not, but it's not as bad as you want to claim either.
 

JungleJett

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Wave..you have no ideal how our owners make their money. Your claim the did on the backs of normal Americans (that would be me) is unsubstantiated.

When was the last time a homeless guy walked up and handed you money? Most of these "rich a-holes" are VERY generous and are more than likely considered.....wait for it.....the person responsible for you making your mortgage payment.

I have absolutely no problem with rich people...I find that most who do are jealous.
 

fischman

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I think you guys are bitching about the 1% of the time that things aren't up to your standards, and you're blowing it way out of proportion.
I think you are riding on the 1% that are serviced.

I am not blowing this out of proportion. I am not asking for gold plated fixtures and a lav that has new blue juice and sanitized after every flight. I am asking for a lav that has been just wiped down once a day.

I am asking that the seat back pockets are emptied after every leg.

I am asking that the head butter be cleaned off the windows at least once a week.
 

Pervis

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Wave..you have no ideal how our owners make their money. Your claim the did on the backs of normal Americans (that would be me) is unsubstantiated.

When was the last time a homeless guy walked up and handed you money? Most of these "rich a-holes" are VERY generous and are more than likely considered.....wait for it.....the person responsible for you making your mortgage payment.

I have absolutely no problem with rich people...I find that most who do are jealous.

He is another prime example of the success of class warfare. It used to be the American dream to achieve success. Now anyone who does is evil, and needs their success redistributed.
 
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