NetJets vs NetJets Int'l

[old*art]

Also when was the last time you made a trip around the world, the last time you flew into Russian airspace, the last time you went deep into China using QFE/MM, the last time you went to the middle east, the last time you worked above 80N(polar[/I]

Gosh that is all so complicated and difficult!! (tongue in cheek) Surely half our BBJ fleet is MIA somewhere on the world by now !! And yes I have been around the world once and to 46 countries abroad, and have NO desire to do it again thank you very much.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Hey Grizz, Can you tell us (about) how much a TON of Int'l time is? Also when was the last time you made a trip around the world, the last time you flew into Russian airspace, the last time you went deep into China using QFE/MM, the last time you went to the middle east, the last time you worked above 80N(polar). This is not an attack, I'm just wondering if you are for real? It sounds as if you are a very experienced Int'l Capt. If so, you should be heading over to NJI, if you can hold a slot over there? I really think those guys would LOVE to work with you and your attitude.

This isn't a fight over ability. You were taught your ability and if a Dirty Dingus can fly the G willy upside down through Krablackistani airspace while filling out an engine trend form and ordering crew food then certainly Grizz can.

I would invite you to fly an Ultra... anywhere! It's not that you couldn't do it. I just don't think you could fit your head through the hole in the fuselage.

No sir, this fight is not about desire, opinion, what's percieved fair or not.

This fight isn't even about NJI pilots.

This fight is about seniority rights and scope.

Accept them or not. Your choice.

I personally think that NJI pilots should stop sniping about personal desire and opinion and do something useful like organizing an offical voice to address the issue.


P.S. I have flown tours recently with guys who have significant international experience. British Airways, Tower, TWA, DELTA, UAL, and THE G WHIZ!!!!!

Address the issue or the issue will address you.

 

[DO-82 driver]

FLYLOW22.....I have had the pleasure of speaking to a number of NJI guys and I was shocked by their willingness to consider the merger of the 2 pilot forces.


Many of them realize what they are dealinig with in RTS and they don' trust him as far as they can throw him. They expressed to me their concern that he will sell them out down the road.

I now believe the loud-mouths on this board speak for the minority at NJI. The atmosphere over there does not allow for their "silent majority" to rise up....for obvious reasons.

We will be merged and its not going to be THAT ugly.

 

[Waldom]

To all NJA folks:

Just a word from an NJI type who wants you to know that not all of us are as chuffed with themselves as some of the alleged NJI posters are.

I happen to like my job and am well satisfied with the company. The most rewarding part of working here is the opportunity to work with truely outstanding co-workers. I have no doubt that you can make the same statement. The Gulfstream is a fine aircraft and I enjoy the mix of domestic and international flying, but I hardly view either as particularly demanding of pilot skill.

All of us at both NJA and NJI come from varied backgrounds and many on both sides have experience in aircraft a bit heavier than a Gulfstream and could justifiably view it as a light twin. All airplanes and types of flying can be demanding at times be they a 90 h.p. Cub cropduster or a 747.

I just wanted you to know that majority of us don't equate the type of aircraft we fly or where we fly it with testesterone level.

 

[YankeeEcho]

I happen to like my job and am well satisfied with (NJI) the company. The most rewarding part of working here is the opportunity to work with truely outstanding co-workers. I have no doubt that you can make the same statement. The Gulfstream is a fine aircraft and I enjoy the mix of domestic and international flying, but I hardly view either as particularly demanding of pilot skill.

I just wanted you to know that majority of us don't equate the type of aircraft we fly or where we fly it with testesterone level.

Ditto . . . couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Diesel]

I just wanted you to know that majority of us don't equate the type of aircraft we fly or where we fly it with testesterone level.

I fly a X. Yes they clang when I walk.

 

[gutshotdraw]

FLYLOW22.....I have had the pleasure of speaking to a number of NJI guys and I was shocked by their willingness to consider the merger of the 2 pilot forces.


Many of them realize what they are dealinig with in RTS and they don' trust him as far as they can throw him. They expressed to me their concern that he will sell them out down the road.

I now believe the loud-mouths on this board speak for the minority at NJI. The atmosphere over there does not allow for their "silent majority" to rise up....for obvious reasons.

We will be merged and its not going to be THAT ugly.

DO is correct that there are many who would accept or even welcome a pilot list merger for two primary reasons: 1. The overtime policy in the CBA would mean 10-15 K more a year to the average line pilot. 2. The elimination of the uncertainty of their career path. "Will we merge, won't we. Will the NMB approve the petition, won't they."

That said, I can say without doubt that the majority, perhaps not a huge majority, DO NOT want to become Teamsters for a variety of reasons including personal, economic, political, and career considerations. Any employee objection to unionization varies with the individual. Management's objection is purely economic.

As I have pointed out on other threads, there will not be a "bargaining voice" created for the pilot group anytime soon no matter how many times 1108 members say "join us now or get screwed in three years." No flame, just fact.

I am certain of only one thing: The NMB will hear a single carrier petition brought by 1108 in the fall of 2008.

I am fairly confident in another thing: 1108 will lose the petition. (See Uncle Hulas)

I kinda, sorta believe one more thing: Any change in NJI's union status will occur during the next contract negotiation as part of a settlement between RTS and 1108.

You might as well grab a Snickers bar. We're going to be here for a while.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I fly a X. Yes they clang when I walk.

LOL Diesel. Mine only ping like BB's.

 

[FLYLOW22]

We will be merged and its not going to be THAT ugly.

"The best merger is one in which both sides get equally screwed".-- Unknown USAir Captain, 2000.

The best words I ever heard and true.

This is the end I hope for in the interests of the long term.

 

[FLYLOW22]

That said, I can say without doubt that the majority, perhaps not a huge majority, DO NOT want to become Teamsters for a variety of reasons including personal, economic, political, and career considerations. Any employee objection to unionization varies with the individual. Management's objection is purely economic.


I am fairly confident in another thing: 1108 will lose the petition. (See Uncle Hulas)

Interesting thoughts.

As for the Teamsters thought... I agree myself. A Teamsters Local is only as good as it's leadership. We have excellent leadership in the 1108. They aren't perfect, but they are awesome non the less. We like to think of ourselves as the Local 1108... that happens to be Teamsters Local technically. In short, the Teamsters make available $$, resources and contacts in exchange for good press that we create. They don't do any work for you in general but they will give you the keys to the shed so you can get the mower.

On the Hulas thing. He is scum. He would sell his mother. The other important factor, however, is that H. Kanodias opponent was ALPA. ALPA would sell it's mother too... but settles for it's children on a daily basis.

We aren't ALPA over here at 1108. In fact, a good chunk of us here are victims of ALPA and have taken a solem oath not to repeat the many mistakes of ALPA. In ALPA, there is mainline representation and there is regional representation... if you can call it that at the regionals.

Trans States has it's work cut out for them. Virtually all of the regional airlines are now split into several labor bidding camps that are pitted against each other.

1108 is tyring to eliminate that phenomenon here by joining NJI and NJA.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Flylow,

I know full well how much better the 1108 leadership has been for your pilot group. I said to anyone who would listen when I joined this travelling minstrel show 7 years ago that the NJA pilot group would be much better off with its own local. As with all things political, the closer to home you can maintain control, the better things will be for the constituents.

With regard to Uncle Hulie, I know from firsthand experience just what kind of businessman he is and also from firsthand experience the failings of ALPA. Nevertheless, the situation with ALPA-TSA-GJ was not a negotiation, it was a court battle and the NMB said no single carrier on a multiple point basis. In my opinion, a thorough reading of the decision foreshadows a legal failure of a single carrier petition in the NJA-NJI case.

If ever there were an instance of alter-ego carriers in an effort to whipsaw pilot groups, TSA-GJ was it. And yet the petition failed. RTS cannot whipsaw the pilot groups here because he can't promise flying to one group over the other if they'll only capitulate on salary or benefit demands. The customer decides which aircraft they will buy and NJI is contractually limited to Gulfstream aircraft only. Hence, limited potential for whipsaw.

Regardless, I don't expect any definitive resolution on this issue before 2011 at the earliest. So let's make it a case of Snicker's bars.

 

[FLYLOW22]

If ever there were an instance of alter-ego carriers in an effort to whipsaw pilot groups, TSA-GJ was it. And yet the petition failed. RTS cannot whipsaw the pilot groups here because he can't promise flying to one group over the other if they'll only capitulate on salary or benefit demands. The customer decides which aircraft they will buy and NJI is contractually limited to Gulfstream aircraft only. Hence, limited potential for whipsaw.

My question (and no one can answer but Duane Woerthless) is how hard did ALPA really fight on this issue and how many resources were thrown at this case by ALPA. Sure, ALPA put on a great "all hands on deck" rally, they filed the lawsuit, yada, yada... Did they even care though. I bet on a national level, they didn't. The focus of ALPA is on the crusty seniors flying past 60 and preserving max pay/pensions at all costs. Period.

The pilots of 1108 don't have the same issues. We have far more bargaining power than the pilots of TSA. We are VERY motivated and disciplined towards reaching our goals.

In short, we kick ass and take names. The lawsuit is most likely but one method of making friends and influencing people that are available.

Santulli knows the rest well.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

The TSA/Go issue is interesting no doubt.

What I find amusing is the GO pilots are; (you got it) Teamsters.

So its ALPA vs. Teamsters... who was the good guy/bad guy?

And do the NJA pilots welcome the GO pilots with open arms? They are Teamster "union" Brothers.

I do not, repeat DO NOT; think NJA pilots are of the same level as Regional Pilots at GO or any other slave camp labor airline. You guys have much more class than that.

 

[Hogprint]

It's been a challenge this summer

Pretty sure that in May they interviewed 10 people and hired 2. Been out paddling lately Hog?

Been helping coach the boys baseball team (2nd place reg season) and the tournament just ended this week, so haven't even wet a paddle. Between VBC, baseball, basketball camp and boy scouts, it's hard to work in the kayak this summer.

Get down this summer and it will give me an excuse to go!

 

[jtf]

ALPA National put almost no effort into the lawsuit. Worthless told the TSA pilots to accept the piece of crap deal Hulas offered for the flying (about $2 an hour more for 70 seaters than 50 seaters and a 4 year exention of a bad contract) and the MEC suggested voting otherwise. Worthless just wanted to keep the dollars from the pilots flying those aircraft rolling into ALPA. GJ pilots weren't Teamsters until after the legal battle and they were organized by the management pilots who crossed over at the first opportunity themselves. ALPA had to present something in the mediation, but they sure didn't give it their all. We are definitely in an anti-labor environment in current times and it is hard to say what will happen if/ when it goes to the mediator, but others have won the singel carrier petition and it will be interesting to see how it all goes down. One thing I am sure of is that 1108 will have a vastly better game plan than ALPA did in the GJ/TSA petition.

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Why, when I SEE, HEAR or READ ALPA, do I have a massive bowel movement ?

Talk about the absolute WORST of the WORST ! ALPA is a scummy outfit.