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Netjets vs majors
- Thread starter JPB
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Thanks everybody for your answers.
I also flew for commuters part 121 and I agree that fractional is nicer for comparable benefits. I was home every night though.
But the truth is that the fractional industry loses hundreds of pilots/month to the major. ( still about 50 since 9/11 for my company).
I was wondering what it would take for you to turn down a major (not just 121).
I also flew for commuters part 121 and I agree that fractional is nicer for comparable benefits. I was home every night though.
But the truth is that the fractional industry loses hundreds of pilots/month to the major. ( still about 50 since 9/11 for my company).
I was wondering what it would take for you to turn down a major (not just 121).
Semore Butts
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- Feb 15, 2002
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- 670
On their dime
Someone probably already said this, but, when I'm on my way to work, I'm on the clock sitting next to some poor sap that is jumpseating to work on his day off.
Of course it's their choice not to live in domicile.
After 9-11, it's also good to know who is sitting behind you. An airline crew has a whole planeload of people behind them where there is a percentage of weapons getting through (be carefull!)
Trivial points maybe, but the worst part of my rotation is getting to work, and getting home on the airlines. The "big boys" God bless them, are in the airport every single day. I admit the girl watching is awesome, but otherwise, what a drag.
Have you ever noticed how "clueless and rude" people can be in the airport? I let it go because I realize that a majority of these people are stressed out of there gourd!
All I'm saying those airline people are really earning their dough now.
Take care
Someone probably already said this, but, when I'm on my way to work, I'm on the clock sitting next to some poor sap that is jumpseating to work on his day off.
Of course it's their choice not to live in domicile.
After 9-11, it's also good to know who is sitting behind you. An airline crew has a whole planeload of people behind them where there is a percentage of weapons getting through (be carefull!)
Trivial points maybe, but the worst part of my rotation is getting to work, and getting home on the airlines. The "big boys" God bless them, are in the airport every single day. I admit the girl watching is awesome, but otherwise, what a drag.
Have you ever noticed how "clueless and rude" people can be in the airport? I let it go because I realize that a majority of these people are stressed out of there gourd!
All I'm saying those airline people are really earning their dough now.
Take care
banned username 2
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- 3,254
CCDiscoB said:
Yes, Most fractional guys "commute" to their plane on their first day of work (read: on duty getting paid) and commute home on their last day (read: on duty getting paid).... Their duty day typically starts when they arrive at their "Gateway" airport near their house to catch a flight to their plane...
Yes, they infact do get paid to commute... and it counts towards their duty day to boot! And it is a positive space ticket, no stressing out over standby, or jumpseat...
H
hellas
Corporate operations may decelerate hiring or may even stop altogether but for companies like NJ there will always be business because there will always be large corporations who understand the benefits that only corporate aviation can provide and the airlines never in a millions years could handle.
hmmmmmm... let me think about this
hmmmmmm... let me think about this
H
hellas
Now that I have though about it maybe I can get some answers from the frac guys... In the loss of a 2 trillion (yes I did write trillion ) economy and the dow hitting 8000'S, are the people you frac guys carry immune from the loss's. Here is my take, the frac indudstry is going to get hit with a wave of acquisition, bankruptcy, and loss's the likes of no airline has ever seen. The people you guys carry ARE the 2 trillion dollar loss and I have been in business for many years and I can guarantee that frac owners are renegotiating there contracts in droves. Airplane orders, defered payments and "projected ownership" does not amount to a hill of beans. I always see in the articles of fracs about orders on airplanes and the name dropping of clientel. But never, never do I see earnings, revenue, or EPS. But I do see these thing in companies like Southwest who has 8 Billion in capital. What do you frac pilots see in your companies that investors, (not the Warren Buffets) but people like me and 401k managers, investment firms do not? I hope with all my conviction that the frac industry turns to out be another outlet for aviation professionals to earn living. But I just dont see it. I really dont care to hear about all the company propaganda, your companies are run by people who are cut from the same cloth as the Wolf's, Junk Bonds, Miliken's and Enron managment and E-stocks. They are only looking to keep the stock safe for acquisition or IPO. Do you think a guy like Ricci who salvaged drug running citations out of the jungles of S. America and refurbish them to "new" and sold them people as flight Options has any long term integrity compaired to a Delta airlines or Fed Ex. Save your money and hold on because the "Boulder" that hit the pond created a wave you guys cant see over...
NJA Capt
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- 462
hellas said:
I see there is still a great deal of misinformation about the fractional business. But, I'll try to answer your questions.
(1)(2)Mostly. Take Bill Gates for example (not a frac customer), he lost what last year $80 million? Heck, he still has 100 gazillion left!
The beauty of the frac aircraft for people is they don't have to buy the whole boat. Can't afford a Hawker of your own? Buy part of one. That's just what people are doing. Sure the economy has hurt some of our owners. All they have done is perhaps downgraded from a Hawker to an Ultra, or maybe from a Gulfstream to a Falcon. Immune? No. Leaving in droves? Not on your life!
(3) Because they are private companies. If you would like to look at NetJets numbers, just pick up Berkshire Hathaway's annual report.
(4) See over it? Heck, we're surf'in on it!
For the 121 guys to visualize....When you hear your first class pax talking about how cruddy it is to ride in coach, that is how our owners feel about first class. Our passengers WILL NOT go back to airline travel if they have to build a plane themselves.
beytzim
Well-known member
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- Nov 26, 2001
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To Hellas,
You seem to be a pretty smart guy so I'll give you some interesting info:
The main difference between "Buffett" companies and just about every other publicly traded company is that Warren does not care about quartetly earnings, losses and expectations. Warren told Santulli he expects results in 10 years (that was 3 years ago). What has plagued Enron, Worldcomm is the desire to make the stock price as high as possible at the quartely earning postings. That is simply not the way Netjets works.
Further, once a biz jet owner has flown with us, its pretty tough for them to go back to the airlines. Sure, its expensive, but once they've seen this world of flying - they're simply not going back. Owning a jet currently makes much more fiscal sense than perhaps ten years ago (in regards to fracs) - and people WERE buying bizjets ten years ago.
Yes, the stock market is low, but if you know anything of cycles of the the DJIA over the last 34 years, you would know that there have been two 17 year economic cycles. These two cycles did not, I repeat, did not, emulate the DJIA growth rates at all. Therefore, the DJIA does not relate directly but perhaps indirectly to the US economy. With that one must assume that the fractional industry will do well regardless of the DJIA, but will do better and better as the airline industry's customer service gets worse exponentially.
Hope that clears things up
You seem to be a pretty smart guy so I'll give you some interesting info:
The main difference between "Buffett" companies and just about every other publicly traded company is that Warren does not care about quartetly earnings, losses and expectations. Warren told Santulli he expects results in 10 years (that was 3 years ago). What has plagued Enron, Worldcomm is the desire to make the stock price as high as possible at the quartely earning postings. That is simply not the way Netjets works.
Further, once a biz jet owner has flown with us, its pretty tough for them to go back to the airlines. Sure, its expensive, but once they've seen this world of flying - they're simply not going back. Owning a jet currently makes much more fiscal sense than perhaps ten years ago (in regards to fracs) - and people WERE buying bizjets ten years ago.
Yes, the stock market is low, but if you know anything of cycles of the the DJIA over the last 34 years, you would know that there have been two 17 year economic cycles. These two cycles did not, I repeat, did not, emulate the DJIA growth rates at all. Therefore, the DJIA does not relate directly but perhaps indirectly to the US economy. With that one must assume that the fractional industry will do well regardless of the DJIA, but will do better and better as the airline industry's customer service gets worse exponentially.
Hope that clears things up
H
hellas
beytzim you wrote:
"Yes, the stock market is low, but if you know anything of cycles of the the DJIA over the last 34 years, you would know that there have been two 17 year economic cycles. These two cycles did not, I repeat, did not, emulate the DJIA growth rates at all. Therefore, the DJIA does not relate directly but perhaps indirectly to the US economy. With that one must assume that the fractional industry will do well regardless of the DJIA, but will do better and better as the airline industry's customer service gets worse exponentially"
This is the most fiscally ignorant statement I have ever read and it trully deserves no comment and I still stand behind my post. I dont mean to be offensive but if you did go to business school please ask for a refund..
"Yes, the stock market is low, but if you know anything of cycles of the the DJIA over the last 34 years, you would know that there have been two 17 year economic cycles. These two cycles did not, I repeat, did not, emulate the DJIA growth rates at all. Therefore, the DJIA does not relate directly but perhaps indirectly to the US economy. With that one must assume that the fractional industry will do well regardless of the DJIA, but will do better and better as the airline industry's customer service gets worse exponentially"
This is the most fiscally ignorant statement I have ever read and it trully deserves no comment and I still stand behind my post. I dont mean to be offensive but if you did go to business school please ask for a refund..
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