NetJets Union Disaster Unfolding

[ghostrider64]

How about this...without that crappy union, you'd have been fired outright, then you wouldn't have a choice to make. Don't believe me, ask the NJE guys how that worked out for them.

 

[realityman]

To both of the above, you do realize this issue does not affect me personally, right? Yet I still expect the union to fight for the rights of all pilots covered under our contract. They simply can't choose which sections to enforce - it's all or nothing. All laughable mentions of "sacrafice" have exactly zero bearing on the union's responsibility to the rights of its members.

Yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. It doesn't change anything.

Do you agree tht our current union leadership is doing a great job fighting the company? Have they shown any fear about taking on the company in every area possible?

My own answer to those questions is a resounding yes! Therefore, if our current union leadership says they've looked at it, including legal interpretations from our attornies as well as talking to the person who actually negotiated that section to determine intent, then I am forced to believe them, no matter how much I don't like the interpretation.

They don't feel they have a credible case against the company because the current interpretation is sound, even if it's not what we want to hear.

I personally hate all this "intent" stuff. Cripes, just write the contract in clear terms and say it, in black and white, exactly what's meant! How hard is that? The furloughed pilots aren't the only ones who have had to deal with this "intent" crap! I've been burned by it too. Sucks, but it just makes me resolved to fix it in the next CBA.

Now some furloughed pilots are talking about sueing the union over it? Sueing the union so they don't have to come back?! You know what? F**k them! Our own pilots are going to attack the union, distracting them from the fight at hand, wasting union resources, creating division amongst the pilot group, and generally being ungrateful because they don't agree with an interpretation our leaders, attorneys, and people who actually negotiated the section say is correct?! What a crock!

If anyone needs to get over themselves, it's the furloughed pilots. They're willing to destroy our hard-won solidarity over a chance to decline coming back to a job they say they've been wanting to get back to! It's insane! And worst of all, it's self-destructive because weakening the union means lessening our chances of winning the contract battle which means they may not see the gains they hope to achieve.

Like I said, union leadership didn't randomly decide they weren't going to fight the company on this issue. Everyone has looked at it and decided they have no legal standing to fight it. Sometimes it happens. A lawsuit won't change that. Why don't they sue the company instead?

Good luck with all that. By the way, if they sue the union and lose, will there be an apology forthcoming from the furloughed pilots for wasting union resources and solidarity so they can find out what they've been told all along?

Interesting times indeed!

 

[imacdog]

How about this...without that crappy union, you'd have been fired outright, then you wouldn't have a choice to make. Don't believe me, ask the NJE guys how that worked out for them.

So it's okay then for the union to disregard the contract?

 

[JustPlaneTruth]

.......The contract is crystal clear. When they get to the bottom of the list, the most junior pilot returns or is terminated, and any unfilled vacancies on each recall are staffed with new hires. Each time there are vacancies, they offer them to furloughed pilots, the most junior returns or is terminated, and any unfilled vacancies are staffed with new hires. This process repeats until the last furloughed pilot is gone. Pretty simple. Why is NJASAP decimating the furlough and recall language and opening themselves to a DFR suit? Why aren't more people talking about this? Why is NJASAP trying to force furloughed pilots who have other job obligations to come back to a company that is extremely volatile, where hostages are being taken day by day? Who's idea was this? What's going on with NJASAP? This is "unity"?

Here is the language so that others can play along too. The language seems virtually the same between the 05 and the 07 agreements. What matters is not want line pilots think the language says or want it to say. What matters is what was negotiated between the Company and the Union - that is what an arbitrator will say.

If the language is in question and the parties cannot agree on the intent of the language, then the parties review the Transcripts and the Bargaining Notes during the grievance/system board/arbitration process.

Is there dispute between the Company and the Union on the intent of this language after consulting the negotiators (M.O. for the Company and M.L. from the Union) for 2005 CBA?

If both the Company and the Union agree on the intent of what they negotiated, then there is no dispute and life goes on. DFR suit is an idle threat and will cost the claimants a lot of money. DFR suit wins are a rarity and I am sure NJASAP legal is not concerned about it other than the dues money that will be spent in the process.

One has to wonder if the goal is to get the language changed to something other than was negotiated or deflect the successes of NJASAP and spawn disunity.

7.7 Recall Deferral
A Crewmember on furlough may defer recall, provided there is a more junior Crewmember on furlough on the date the recall notice is sent. If a crewmember is the most junior Crewmember on furlough on the date the recall notice is sent and the Crewmember does not accept recall, he shall be immediately terminated and removed from the seniority list. If a Crewmember desires to defer recall and is eligible to do so, the Crewmember shall notify Company according to Section 7.4 of this Agreement. Failure to give notice pursuant to Section 7.4 shall result in immediate termination and removal from the seniority list. Notwithstanding Section 7.1, the Company may hire new pilot(s) when a furloughed pilot(s) has deferred recall, provided all furloughed pilots, including pilots who have deferred recall, shall be offered the opportunity to fill any future vacancy prior to hiring new pilots. It is agreed and understood that pilots who have deferred recall shall have recall rights to future vacancies only.

7.7 Recall Deferral
A crewmember on furlough may defer recall, provided there is a more junior crewmember on furlough on the date the recall notice is sent. If a crewmember is the most junior crewmember on furlough on the date the recall notice is sent and the crewmember does not accept the recall, he will be immediately terminated and removed from the Seniority List. If a crewmember desires to defer recall and is eligible to do so, the crewmember will notify the Company according to subsection 7.4 of this Agreement. Failure to give notice pursuant to subsection 7.4 will result in immediate termination and removal from the Seniority List. Notwithstanding subsection 7.1, the Company may hire new crewmember(s) when a furloughed crewmember has deferred recall, provided all furloughed crewmembers, including crewmembers who have deferred the recall, will be offered the opportunity to fill any future vacancy prior to hiring new crewmembers. It is agreed and understood that crewmembers who have deferred the recall will have recall rights to future vacancies only.

 

[realityman]

So it's okay then for the union to disregard the contract?

No, of course not.

But in this case, everyone on the union side to include leadership, legal, and the person who negotiated that section all agree that it's being followed properly.

The furloughed pilots obviously don't agree. But like I said, this is a union leadership I trust, so much as I don't like it I have to concede they may be right.

If they aren't then I will make a public apology.

 

[imacdog]

If that is the intent of the language, then why is it only just now being interpreted this way? Why have pilots been given other interpretations? This won't be the only thing that the union has F'd up regarding the furlough, by a long shot.

 

[Hawkered]

To both of the above, you do realize this issue does not affect me personally, right? Yet I still expect the union to fight for the rights of all pilots covered under our contract. They simply can't choose which sections to enforce - it's all or nothing. All laughable mentions of "sacrafice" have exactly zero bearing on the union's responsibility to the rights of its members.

Right now, I'm regretting participating in the furlough mitigation measures, donating to NJFF and the 495 Christmas fund!!

Don't let the door hit you in the ass!!

 

[T-1GUY]

The writing has been on the wall that sometime between the fall and spring the recalls would happen and the list would be completed. Is a six month window really that hard to work with? You have had years to have a plan in place whether you were going to go back or leave. I feel for you that it came sooner than you planned, but sh$t happens in life. Make a decision based on the information at hand, and live with it. Life is never fair.

 

[imacdog]

Right now, I'm regretting participating in the furlough mitigation measures, donating to NJFF and the 495 Christmas fund!!

Don't let the door hit you in the ass!!

Yeah damn those guys who should be protected under our contract. Why would the door hit me on the ass?

 

[imacdog]

The writing has been on the wall that sometime between the fall and spring the recalls would happen and the list would be completed. Is a six month window really that hard to work with? You have had years to have a plan in place whether you were going to go back or leave. I feel for you that it came sooner than you planned, but sh$t happens in life. Make a decision based on the information at hand, and live with it. Life is never fair.

Funny, at the real career destinations, those furloughees got to defer for years on end. Unless you're admitting that we don't have the union solidarity that the real carriers have?