realityman
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2004
- Posts
- 782
Bullying? What are you talking about? The message boards like I said, ignore it. It's writing on a screen. And I don't care if you were called a management stooge (I would never say that, but I know others have), were you threatened? The worst I've seen is a few folks saying if you're not with us, you're one of THEM. Ohhhh, the bullying! , a conversation or three, the publishing of a never-before-published matrix of extended days by fleet in a clear effort to embarrass people into toeing the union line. You're kidding, right? Were there any names attached to it? No? Have you read our contract? It's actually REQUIRED that the union collect this data, and make it available to the membership. But no names, who is getting embarrassed? Just a few examples. The union ASKED for support from the membership. That's what they've done for each and every issue we've faced.
Has anyone shown up at your door with a baseball bat? Smashed the windows in your car? You been getting death threats? Since it's no longer a Teamster's local, that possibility is admittedly remote. So in other words, no. Let's expand, have you received any calls form the union telling you to do something, or else? I hope you're not referring to anything on the "Echo Chamber". That's a message board, same as this one, and can be turned off on your end at any time. You needn't listen to anything said there. Ah, but it can be so entertaining...and revealing. Still not bullying. Come on, have you talked to ANY GLC crews who have changed their behaviour at work because they're worried about some scary consequence from the union that they picked up from the boards? Since it's 'entertainment', just shut it off if it gets too scary. Or you may be able to buy some sort of "V" chip for your computer to filter this stuff for you. Have you been treated rudely by the non-GLC crews on the road? Actually, yes, since you asked. And more than once. I figured it was because they were abused as children (obscure movie reference). Rudely as in threats, or just boorish behaviour? Because I've run into a few rude ones myself from the GLC fleet. It was certainly irritating, but not especially threatening, or done in a bullying manner./COLOR] I'm honestly interested, who is bullying anyone about any issue?
I remember back in '05 when I didn't agree with some things we were doing. I had some heated exchanges on the message boards with others who were more hardcore union than I am (I know, hard to believe), but it was just passionate discussion. I never felt bullied. Just how thin is your skin anyway? Judging by some of his published responses, thicker than Luthi's, clearly.Doesn't seem like it.
Good. Think for yourself. The major issues come to a vote and you're entitled to vote any way you choose (or not vote at all, if that's the position you'd like to take). Haven't had the chance to vote, ever. Major issues, right? 401k is a major issue.Yes it is. And had the EMT followed the proper channels and made the switch contractually, you would have had the chance to vote on it. Same as the rest of us. It's OUR money, and WE should have the ultimate say-so on what happens to it, which is EXACTLY why that part is in the CBA. And the reason we're where we're currently at with the EMT over this whole thing. The EMT denied you your vote, not the union. So is the idea to picket. Did that come up for a vote? Didn't think so. It's not contractual and doesn't require a vote per the bylaws. Even our union has rules to follow. Yes, yes, I know the EBoard is paid to make those decisions FOR us.Every vote takes months to set up, and costs at least $25K to execute. So yes, we do have leadership that is supposed to make a great many decisions. You act irritated it works this way, yet you don't want to be bothered with this union crap. So which is it? Do you want to have to vote on things every other day because we want, as a group of 3000 different opinions, to micromanage our leaders, or do you want to let them do their jobs, and not bother you all the time with union stuff you don't like? Pardon me if I don't fall in line like a good little Bundist (another obscure movie reference).So don't. When votes come up, vote however you like. And if you don't feel the picketing for something is right, don't show up. Our history has shown we do much better as a unified group, but we've never had 100% unity, and for those who didn't 'fall in line', I haven't heard of anyone needing therapy because they were harrassed and bullied because of their choices.
As for the attitudes of the rank and file, I don't necessarily believe our message boards always reflect what the majority is thinking. But the official union polls do a pretty good job of that. Poll? What poll? They regularly take sampling polls of the membership. It's random. If you haven't ever been called, make sure you double check with the union HQ that they have your correct phone number on file. Or maybe you have caller ID, and thought the polling agency (it's a university) was some kind of telemarketer and didn't answer? I've never been polled on my opinions about the union or its direction. Don't know anybody in the GLC that has been polled, either.This is a specific issue you've asked of the other GLC crews? You've asked them all? Did you miss that part in my last post? And again, I've been with this union for 15 years now, and been flying with the regular rank and file for that same time. I'd wager anything you care to that I have a better pulse on what the pilots feel than you do.
As I said before, some didn't care for the action the union is currently taking. That's great. When was the last time you took a large workforce like ours, whether union or non-union, and got 100% consensus on anything? Point taken. And that would be great if people weren't browbeaten for having a different opinion. Look at the way G4 is treated for his OPINION.It's FI, who cares? But actually, I agree with you that there is some browbeating. Sadly, some supposedly adult people still haven't learned to act like one. Still, if you can't get around it, I'd say your comments about thicker skin than Luthi's is incorrect.
I'm just telling you through my experience with THIS UNION over 15 years, that the turnout for the picket was great, and if you'd care to correlate it to pilot feelings about the current issue versus past pickets and pilot feelings on past issues, then I'd say the vast majority of pilots here are unhappy with the 401K thing, this EMT's overall treatment of our CBA, and are pleased with the path we've chosen. I'm not happy with the way management handled the 401k either. In my opinion, it's a mistake to poke the bear when you don't need to.A shame you don't feel the same way about the EMT. We could have a much better relationship with the company if THEY would allow it. Again, I've been in this union a long time now, and I've seen how it's gone. While we certainly had our beefs with past EMT's, there was always respect from both sides and the lines of communication were always open. Something has changed with this new EMT, and I can tell you it isn't the union. You haven't been with us in the past, so you have nothing to compare it to, so I can see how it may look like the union is the problem. Fair enough. But maybe you should listen to what we're telling you and do a little research on your own of our history, and it will be clearer where the problem lies. I just disagree with the EBoard's choice of response.You don't have to. Doesn't mean a picket might not be warranted in the future.I hope not. It's better for everyone if we all cooperate.
Thanks for your responses. At least we can talk about this stuff. I don't threaten, browbeat, or bully. I'm always interested in an exchange of opinions.
Has anyone shown up at your door with a baseball bat? Smashed the windows in your car? You been getting death threats? Since it's no longer a Teamster's local, that possibility is admittedly remote. So in other words, no. Let's expand, have you received any calls form the union telling you to do something, or else? I hope you're not referring to anything on the "Echo Chamber". That's a message board, same as this one, and can be turned off on your end at any time. You needn't listen to anything said there. Ah, but it can be so entertaining...and revealing. Still not bullying. Come on, have you talked to ANY GLC crews who have changed their behaviour at work because they're worried about some scary consequence from the union that they picked up from the boards? Since it's 'entertainment', just shut it off if it gets too scary. Or you may be able to buy some sort of "V" chip for your computer to filter this stuff for you. Have you been treated rudely by the non-GLC crews on the road? Actually, yes, since you asked. And more than once. I figured it was because they were abused as children (obscure movie reference). Rudely as in threats, or just boorish behaviour? Because I've run into a few rude ones myself from the GLC fleet. It was certainly irritating, but not especially threatening, or done in a bullying manner./COLOR] I'm honestly interested, who is bullying anyone about any issue?
I remember back in '05 when I didn't agree with some things we were doing. I had some heated exchanges on the message boards with others who were more hardcore union than I am (I know, hard to believe), but it was just passionate discussion. I never felt bullied. Just how thin is your skin anyway? Judging by some of his published responses, thicker than Luthi's, clearly.Doesn't seem like it.
Good. Think for yourself. The major issues come to a vote and you're entitled to vote any way you choose (or not vote at all, if that's the position you'd like to take). Haven't had the chance to vote, ever. Major issues, right? 401k is a major issue.Yes it is. And had the EMT followed the proper channels and made the switch contractually, you would have had the chance to vote on it. Same as the rest of us. It's OUR money, and WE should have the ultimate say-so on what happens to it, which is EXACTLY why that part is in the CBA. And the reason we're where we're currently at with the EMT over this whole thing. The EMT denied you your vote, not the union. So is the idea to picket. Did that come up for a vote? Didn't think so. It's not contractual and doesn't require a vote per the bylaws. Even our union has rules to follow. Yes, yes, I know the EBoard is paid to make those decisions FOR us.Every vote takes months to set up, and costs at least $25K to execute. So yes, we do have leadership that is supposed to make a great many decisions. You act irritated it works this way, yet you don't want to be bothered with this union crap. So which is it? Do you want to have to vote on things every other day because we want, as a group of 3000 different opinions, to micromanage our leaders, or do you want to let them do their jobs, and not bother you all the time with union stuff you don't like? Pardon me if I don't fall in line like a good little Bundist (another obscure movie reference).So don't. When votes come up, vote however you like. And if you don't feel the picketing for something is right, don't show up. Our history has shown we do much better as a unified group, but we've never had 100% unity, and for those who didn't 'fall in line', I haven't heard of anyone needing therapy because they were harrassed and bullied because of their choices.
As for the attitudes of the rank and file, I don't necessarily believe our message boards always reflect what the majority is thinking. But the official union polls do a pretty good job of that. Poll? What poll? They regularly take sampling polls of the membership. It's random. If you haven't ever been called, make sure you double check with the union HQ that they have your correct phone number on file. Or maybe you have caller ID, and thought the polling agency (it's a university) was some kind of telemarketer and didn't answer? I've never been polled on my opinions about the union or its direction. Don't know anybody in the GLC that has been polled, either.This is a specific issue you've asked of the other GLC crews? You've asked them all? Did you miss that part in my last post? And again, I've been with this union for 15 years now, and been flying with the regular rank and file for that same time. I'd wager anything you care to that I have a better pulse on what the pilots feel than you do.
As I said before, some didn't care for the action the union is currently taking. That's great. When was the last time you took a large workforce like ours, whether union or non-union, and got 100% consensus on anything? Point taken. And that would be great if people weren't browbeaten for having a different opinion. Look at the way G4 is treated for his OPINION.It's FI, who cares? But actually, I agree with you that there is some browbeating. Sadly, some supposedly adult people still haven't learned to act like one. Still, if you can't get around it, I'd say your comments about thicker skin than Luthi's is incorrect.
I'm just telling you through my experience with THIS UNION over 15 years, that the turnout for the picket was great, and if you'd care to correlate it to pilot feelings about the current issue versus past pickets and pilot feelings on past issues, then I'd say the vast majority of pilots here are unhappy with the 401K thing, this EMT's overall treatment of our CBA, and are pleased with the path we've chosen. I'm not happy with the way management handled the 401k either. In my opinion, it's a mistake to poke the bear when you don't need to.A shame you don't feel the same way about the EMT. We could have a much better relationship with the company if THEY would allow it. Again, I've been in this union a long time now, and I've seen how it's gone. While we certainly had our beefs with past EMT's, there was always respect from both sides and the lines of communication were always open. Something has changed with this new EMT, and I can tell you it isn't the union. You haven't been with us in the past, so you have nothing to compare it to, so I can see how it may look like the union is the problem. Fair enough. But maybe you should listen to what we're telling you and do a little research on your own of our history, and it will be clearer where the problem lies. I just disagree with the EBoard's choice of response.You don't have to. Doesn't mean a picket might not be warranted in the future.I hope not. It's better for everyone if we all cooperate.
Thanks for your responses. At least we can talk about this stuff. I don't threaten, browbeat, or bully. I'm always interested in an exchange of opinions.
