NetJets To Picket

[BentOver]

I'm not the desperate one here. If you think the Echo Chamber is indicative of the rank and file, well, more power to you.

I think most folks don't like being bullied. Whether it's by B19 browbeating anyone for even thinking a union can be beneficial in some cases or if it's by union cheerleaders demanding unity and unwavering support of the party line. I prefer to think for myself and decide each issue on its merits. Sometimes, I'll side with the union. Sometimes, I won't. This time, I didn't.

Honest question...You're not at all concerned that the 401(k) provider was changed? Not just changed, but that they changed it without any regard to the contract?

I would be all for it if it was proven to be a better option. But still would have wanted the comapny to adhere to the contract that they signed with the Union. And went through the proper avenues...

 

[realityman]

I'm not the desperate one here. If you think the Echo Chamber is indicative of the rank and file, well, more power to you.

I think most folks don't like being bullied. Whether it's by B19 browbeating anyone for even thinking a union can be beneficial in some cases or if it's by union cheerleaders demanding unity and unwavering support of the party line. I prefer to think for myself and decide each issue on its merits. Sometimes, I'll side with the union. Sometimes, I won't. This time, I didn't.

Bullying? What are you talking about? The union ASKED for support from the membership. That's what they've done for each and every issue we've faced.

Has anyone shown up at your door with a baseball bat? Smashed the windows in your car? You been getting death threats? I hope you're not referring to anything on the "Echo Chamber". That's a message board, same as this one, and can be turned off on your end at any time. You needn't listen to anything said there. Have you been treated rudely by the non-GLC crews on the road? I'm honestly interested, who is bullying anyone about any issue?

I remember back in '05 when I didn't agree with some things we were doing. I had some heated exchanges on the message boards with others who were more hardcore union than I am (I know, hard to believe), but it was just passionate discussion. I never felt bullied. Just how thin is your skin anyway?

Good. Think for yourself. The major issues come to a vote and you're entitled to vote any way you choose (or not vote at all, if that's the position you'd like to take).

As for the attitudes of the rank and file, I don't necessarily believe our message boards always reflect what the majority is thinking. But the official union polls do a pretty good job of that. Did you miss that part in my last post? And again, I've been with this union for 15 years now, and been flying with the regular rank and file for that same time. I'd wager anything you care to that I have a better pulse on what the pilots feel than you do.

As I said before, some didn't care for the action the union is currently taking. That's great. When was the last time you took a large workforce like ours, whether union or non-union, and got 100% consensus on anything?

I'm just telling you through my experience with THIS UNION over 15 years, that the turnout for the picket was great, and if you'd care to correlate it to pilot feelings about the current issue versus past pickets and pilot feelings on past issues, then I'd say the vast majority of pilots here are unhappy with the 401K thing, this EMT's overall treatment of our CBA, and are pleased with the path we've chosen.

 

[rajflyboy]

Raj,

Go back and re-read the relevant post by me.

Here's the paraphrased version: As far as the loss of vacation in the IBB, I said that I AGREED WITH YOU. It wasn't right, and I spoke up about it at the time. I just said that when taken as a whole, I felt the IBB was an overall win for the pilot group.

Well, at least I can agree with you in part on something, even if it isn't about the whole thing.

And yes, I'm disappointed the GLC group right now, but I stand by my beliefs that the integration was accomplished in about as fair a manner as could be hoped for.

Whether they like the union or not, or will stand with us when the big fights come, is fodder for future posts.

I'm glad you are finally starting to see straight

 

[rajflyboy]

Well

when the bossman only got roughly 800 votes out of the 2800 or so voters.... i'd hardly call that a mandate

and this is after election shenanigans and an extended voting period

the information was out there >> no pilot should have cast a vote and this mess would not have happened >> the info was posted but not enough people listened

too bad now >> not enough pilots paid attention to the bs that was going on

now you got what you got so sit back and enjoy it

I don't want to hear any damn complaining. You elected the e board. Now you gotta live with it.

 

[rajflyboy]

The bossman has actually handled some things well over the last few years.

Give the guy some credit.

He has handled the regime change good in my opinion.

 

[realityman]

He got 800 our of about 1200 votes cast. That's 2/3 of the votes that were cast. I don't know about a mandate, but he won by a large margin.

As for all the folks that didn't vote, I don't think any of us can speak for the reasons why they didn't vote. But if you look at the voter turnout in ANY election, percentage-wise, it's not usually much more than that anyway. Pilots aren't any different. If it's not contractual in nature, we don't trun out in large numbers for the vote. We didn't have a super turnout for the bylaws vote either. The leadership even put up a special forum for anyone that wanted to suggest changes to the bylaws prior to the vote, and if memory serves me correctly, only about 3 people posted anything there.

It didn't affect our wallets, so the interest wasn't there. Not sure how you can attribute a dislike of our current leadership as reason for the low voter turnout. I have no more scientific evidence than you do, but to me it just looked more like apathy about an election rather than a statement against any of the candidates.

Uh, how did we get on this subject anyway?

 

[rajflyboy]

He got 800 our of about 1200 votes cast. That's 2/3 of the votes that were cast. I don't know about a mandate, but he won by a large margin.

As for all the folks that didn't vote, I don't think any of us can speak for the reasons why they didn't vote. But if you look at the voter turnout in ANY election, percentage-wise, it's not usually much more than that anyway. Pilots aren't any different. If it's not contractual in nature, we don't trun out in large numbers for the vote. We didn't have a super turnout for the bylaws vote either. The leadership even put up a special forum for anyone that wanted to suggest changes to the bylaws prior to the vote, and if memory serves me correctly, only about 3 people posted anything there.

It didn't affect our wallets, so the interest wasn't there. Not sure how you can attribute a dislike of our current leadership as reason for the low voter turnout. I have no more scientific evidence than you do, but to me it just looked more like apathy about an election rather than a statement against any of the candidates.

Uh, how did we get on this subject anyway?

Dude there was no "Real" election

the vote period was extended to get the results that YOU wanted

 

[realityman]

I don't know what this has to with picketing.

Last post for me.

The FACTS are as follows: The bylaws vote was extended to get the requisite number of votes. Agree with it or not, it was the bylaws vote, NOT the election for leaders that was extended.

And for the record, I voted 'no' on the bylaws vote, so I did NOT get the results that I wanted.

Sheesh! Just where are you getting your 'facts' from anyway?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Bullying? What are you talking about? The message boards, a conversation or three, the publishing of a never-before-published matrix of extended days by fleet in a clear effort to embarrass people into toeing the union line. Just a few examples. The union ASKED for support from the membership. That's what they've done for each and every issue we've faced.

Has anyone shown up at your door with a baseball bat? Smashed the windows in your car? You been getting death threats? Since it's no longer a Teamster's local, that possibility is admittedly remote. I hope you're not referring to anything on the "Echo Chamber". That's a message board, same as this one, and can be turned off on your end at any time. You needn't listen to anything said there. Ah, but it can be so entertaining...and revealing. Have you been treated rudely by the non-GLC crews on the road? Actually, yes, since you asked. And more than once. I figured it was because they were abused as children (obscure movie reference). I'm honestly interested, who is bullying anyone about any issue?

I remember back in '05 when I didn't agree with some things we were doing. I had some heated exchanges on the message boards with others who were more hardcore union than I am (I know, hard to believe), but it was just passionate discussion. I never felt bullied. Just how thin is your skin anyway? Judging by some of his published responses, thicker than Luthi's, clearly.

Good. Think for yourself. The major issues come to a vote and you're entitled to vote any way you choose (or not vote at all, if that's the position you'd like to take). Haven't had the chance to vote, ever. Major issues, right? 401k is a major issue. So is the idea to picket. Did that come up for a vote? Didn't think so. Yes, yes, I know the EBoard is paid to make those decisions FOR us. Pardon me if I don't fall in line like a good little Bundist (another obscure movie reference).

As for the attitudes of the rank and file, I don't necessarily believe our message boards always reflect what the majority is thinking. But the official union polls do a pretty good job of that. Poll? What poll? I've never been polled on my opinions about the union or its direction. Don't know anybody in the GLC that has been polled, either. Did you miss that part in my last post? And again, I've been with this union for 15 years now, and been flying with the regular rank and file for that same time. I'd wager anything you care to that I have a better pulse on what the pilots feel than you do.

As I said before, some didn't care for the action the union is currently taking. That's great. When was the last time you took a large workforce like ours, whether union or non-union, and got 100% consensus on anything? Point taken. And that would be great if people weren't browbeaten for having a different opinion. Look at the way G4 is treated for his OPINION.

I'm just telling you through my experience with THIS UNION over 15 years, that the turnout for the picket was great, and if you'd care to correlate it to pilot feelings about the current issue versus past pickets and pilot feelings on past issues, then I'd say the vast majority of pilots here are unhappy with the 401K thing, this EMT's overall treatment of our CBA, and are pleased with the path we've chosen. I'm not happy with the way management handled the 401k either. In my opinion, it's a mistake to poke the bear when you don't need to. I just disagree with the EBoard's choice of response. Doesn't mean a picket might not be warranted in the future.

Just a few musings on your post...

 

[gutshotdraw]

Honest question...You're not at all concerned that the 401(k) provider was changed? Not just changed, but that they changed it without any regard to the contract?

I would be all for it if it was proven to be a better option. But still would have wanted the comapny to adhere to the contract that they signed with the Union. And went through the proper avenues...

Concerned about what they did to the 401k? Yes.

To the point if a picket? No.

Future pickets during the next Section 6 (in 2016)? Probably. If we last that long.